Instant year's stipend when buying a year for 72 bucks?

Regardless of whether that TOS line holds water in court it's irrelevant to this discussion. The linden DOES have USD value which is actively encouraged and supported by LL. The stipend component IS effectively comparable to a bond. PS US dollars are every bit as much fictional funny money as the $L. The USD is backed ONLY by the continued existance of the US and the confidence of it's users in it's representive value exactly like the $L. In a discussion like this to say the $L has no value because of a line in the TOS is playing the bullshit card and irrelevant.

If the Linden Govt has a problem with Premium Account
Farming, they can change things to make it technically
impossible to accomplish. Until then, the TOS is just
words in the ether...

your accounts will deactivate if you don't log in.

It is against US Federal Law to lie on credit card applications. Likewise LL would only have to check the name and address associated with the prepaid credit card.

LL doesn't need to take you to court to cancle your accounts (as defined in section 7.1 of the TOS).

RBD, on that I think you may want to reconsider your position no disrespect intended. In First Life there are many things you can do that are initially easy to effect, but on a medium term basis have unpleasant consequences due to our shared legal systems common in a democracy.

Also I would caution that words spoke (perhaps in jest) on a BB can come back and haunt you. For example in the UK there is currently a newspaper reporter serving a prison sentence for what amounted to hyping shares in partnership with a friend posting comments on a BB.

Finally if Linden sanctions this concept, fine, well done for spotting an arb as they say, but if not you could be on sticky ground. I will depart now.

There is nothing to fear. In the end, its still a Video Game, right? lol
Not my fault if LL has economic holes they can't plug.

No, it isn't. If the premium account system were changed so that you pay them $72.00 US and in return they would pay you $2.00 US every week, THEN it would be like a bond. They only give you "Linden Dollars", and you must rely on ANOTHER RESIDENT, RATHER THAN LINDEN LAB, valuing those "Linden Dollars", to realize any actual gain.

If you continue to dispute this, please ask Linden Lab to directly purchase (rather than pass along to another resident) your L$500 next Tueseday for whatever the going rate is, and let me know how that goes. You're very much comparing apples to oranges here. For your reference, here is a pretty good Investopedia article on the topic of Municipal Bonds.

As you will see, there are many other key differences, but the biggest one is that a bond is a debt security, not a subscription. That is to say, you are loaning the government money, rather than paying them for a service. When the bond matures, the government gives you your MONEY.

They don't give you some other item, such as "Linden Dollars", or "Snake Oil", and tell you to go sell this other item to your neighbor in order to recover the principle + interest that you're owed. They give you your MONEY.



Linden Lab is not a government. I know that they might SEEM like a government in the same way that the L$ has been carefully designed to SEEM like money. They're just a business though, that provides us with a service. One of the elements of that service is "Linden Dollars".

I don't dispute that "Linden Dollars" may have some monetary value in the eyes of some, or maybe even most (but not all!) residents. As the TOS clearly explains, however, these "Linden Dollars" have absolutely no monetary value to Linden Lab. It shocks and amazes me that ANYONE would engage in business dealings within the Second Life platform without not only fully understanding, but accepting this.

It's not some "vague line which may or may not hold water in court and is irrelevant". It's the rules, which you must agree to be bound by in order to even LOG IN. It already holds water in court because you've already acknowledged and agreed to be legally bound by it, else you'd be unable to use the service!

Linden Lab has spelled this out for us in black and white, and insisted on our agreement. It behooves the virtual businessman to pay careful attention to what they've agreed to. Alternatively, you could continue to believe whatever you feel like believing. Either way, it's not a "bullshit card", "irrelevant", etc. It's plain and simple, black and white. Believe it or not, you've agreed!

What if they offered x amount of Euro's over the course of the year instead of Lindens?



Ditto every other currency these days. You have to rely on another person to get the value out of the currency to get gain.



LL also gives money. Just not the same currency you gave them. And if you don't need it in area's it's accepted(in game) and don't have enough confidence in the exchange rate to take your profit after a year I'd say it's not an investment you should make.



They aren't a government but like a government but like a government they maintain a supply of money backed only by the willingness of other people to accept it.



Linden Dollars DO have monetary value to LL. How many people here have sold goods or services to LL in exchange for Lindens? What they DON'T have and the TOS clearly states they don't have is token value. Poker chips have token value they represent a certain amount of USD. LL is stating in the TOS Lindens don't carry this value, just like a manufacturer puts a token value of less than a penny on a coupon. A RL government can't be taken to court for lost value in the event it or it's currency collapses. A RL business like LL stands that risk unless they clearly place a token value of $0USD on their currency. Having no token value doesn't mean the $L is worthless or not money as long as other people still continue to accept it in exchange for goods and services or other currencies.



It IS vauge in that apparently even you(and many others) believe that they are saying it's valueless. And where it may not hold in court is if that line is used to claim no monetary or value exchange.(ex. gambling/taxes) where it is clear and intended and will probably hold in court is that it has no token value.

However with regards to the stipend it is like a bond that pays its coupon in a different currency than the one it was purchased with. You pay $72USD they promise you regular payments of $500L. Regardless of if/what value YOU place on the $L the yearly stipend does behave as a bond in that regard. And it behaves as the equivilent of a federal or other top level government bond in that what they pay out cost's them nothing. The US government and LL can both create essentially limitless quantities of their dollars. The only thing that controls US and LL money presses is self interest in not devaluing their currency.

ps. Maybe you weren't playing bullshit in which case I credited you with a better understanding of economics than you actually have.

What if the sky was actually green? Do they? If so, I'm unaware.







Thank you for the web reference. Allow me to quote from it:



Issued by whom? LINDEN LAB? The same company that's insisting it's worthless? Yeah, that carries a lot of weight and inspires a lot of confidence!

I can't take it to the bank Jon, and I can't trade it in any currency market outside of this game. I'm sorry, but it's just not money. It's not recognized at all by ANYONE outside of this virtual micro-economy made up of somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 people.

I'm of course very thankful that some people who are as crazy as we are to be buying virtual property with real money will give us real money for Linden Dollars. This does not make Linden Dollars real money though. When I can deposit my Linden Dollars in the bank, then they'll be money.

Regarding an investment in "stipends", I'd have to agree that it's definately not an investment I should make. I don't buy them hoping to make a $20.00 USD yield next year, I buy them for other reasons.




They aren't LIKE a government any more than they are one. They're a company simulating a government.



When LL pays for services in L$, they're not saying that L$ DOES have monetary value to them, they're saying that the work requested DOESN'T have any monetary value to them. So they print you some of their Linden Dollars instead, and tell you to go sell those to some other resident, FARTHER devaluing the L$ exchange.



It's not valueless to ME in perticular, it's simply valueless to the world at large, in addition to being valueless in legal terms. Stipends are not bonds.



If Linden Lab closed up shop tomorrow, how do you suppose that you would collect your Linden Dollars for the rest of your subscription interval? If you could collect them, what do you suppose that you might do with them? Please don't respond to this with some redicuous question along the lines of "what if the the US government went out of business though Shaun????" (I can already hear it coming hehe). I'd like to stick specifically within the realm of the realistic here, and learn specifically what you would do with your Linden Dollars if this company were to go out of business.



Now you're just being rude, again. I don't think I've insulted you in this thread, and if you've felt that way, it's certainly not been my intention. Please let's try to keep it civil.

Lack of confindence in a currency or issuer of currency doesn't change what the currency is but we've argued it enough in and out of game. As long as your focused on a single line of the TOS and the fact you are less confident in the stability of LL than the US I can point to all the in practice usage facts and comparisons till I'm blue in the face and it won't convince you of anything. I'm not trying to be insulting but like I pointed out in game you DO have personal gain potential from weakness in Lindex. If I had to pick between bullshit and lack of economic knowledge I'd pick bullshit. From what I've seen your a bright guy... too bright to believe the simple stuff you say about the $L. Personally stability in the Lindex is more valuable to me. I will shoot hard and straight when someone over simplifies reality to weaken it.