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Second Life needs stable currency

Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
03-30-2006 04:27
From: Fade Languish
I don't believe a person who bleats about how impossible it is for a 'little guy', could turn around and succeed just because someone handed him a wad of cash, You're just using this thread as an opportunity to participate in your favourite sport, baron-bashing. and this is your number one target.


Nobody says you have to believe anything in particular but I know my abilities far better than you could, and I believe that from what I have seen so far - square islands surrounded by water, for example, I am capable of much more.

I'm not targetting barons generally, I am targetting what I believe to be a stupid idea.

I've just spent an hour being bored silly at a Pensions meeting. What I did learn is that anything worth investing needs secure backing and regulation, and full transparency so that anyone investing in it can be sure that they aren't being screwed over.

Where is the backing for A$? Anshe saying "its secure because I say so" (despite someone else pointing out that the backing method is actually illegal in the US, and as people repeatedly point out SL being a US based game is goverened by US laws) doesn't cut it for me. Where are the safeguards? There are none, and there can be none.

You do realise that Anshe could disappear tomorrow with all your money, and there is nothing that you can do about it? No guarantees, no way to trace the human behind the avatar, and LL won't release that information so we can pursue legal action?

Lewis
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PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
03-30-2006 04:31
From: Anshe Chung
A$ would be tradeable on the third party exchange. People and 3rd party sites would be able to "give" A$ to whoever they want.


Anshe shouldent you start an A€ instead OR an ACNY - :-)))))

Couldentstop myself.. sorry... *blush*

/Tina - soon in Germany...
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Blakar Ogre
Registered User
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 209
03-30-2006 04:35
From: Fade Languish
Who doesn't understand how a currency exchange works? Hmmm, that would be you.


Fade, we aren't discussing a currency exchange. The proposal is to create a currency from nothing. This does indeed mean that initially Anshe controls it in full. Personally I'd still like to see Anshe explain how the financial backing will work.
Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
03-30-2006 04:36
From: Lewis Nerd
You do realise that Anshe could disappear tomorrow with all your money, and there is nothing that you can do about it? No guarantees, no way to trace the human behind the avatar, and LL won't release that information so we can pursue legal action?


ANSHECHUNG Studios Ltd. and Linden Research Inc. are both register companies whose owners are publicly known.

One major difference though is that one company relies on borrowed venture capital and reside in one country with multi billion heavy foreign dept, while the other one is required to have cash on the bank and resides in one of the countries with largest multi-billion foreign currency surplus reserves in the world ;-)
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
03-30-2006 04:36
Lewis I'll just say the same holds true for the Linden. Also, Anshe is perfectly traceable, it's an RL company. Other than that I'm not going to feed you anymore right now. It's becoming pointless, you are not here to discuss anything, just to grind an axe.
Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
03-30-2006 04:37
From: Blakar Ogre
Personally I'd still like to see Anshe explain how the financial backing will work.


Silver EUR in bank safe.
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ANSHECHUNG.COM: Buy land - Sell land - Rent land - Sell sim - Rent store - Earn L$ - Buy L$ - Sell L$

SLEXCHANGE.COM: Come join us on Second Life's most popular website for shopping addicts. Click, buy and smile :-)
kerunix Flan
Registered User
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 393
03-30-2006 04:39
Pwned! :D
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
03-30-2006 04:42
From: Fade Languish
Lewis I'll just say the same holds true for the Linden. Also, Anshe is perfectly traceable, it's an RL company. Other than that I'm not going to feed you anymore right now. It's becoming pointless, you are not here to discuss anything, just to grind an axe.



Seems to me that you're the one with the axe to grind, your comments are targetted at me, whereas my comments would have remained the same about the impracticability of such a plan regardless of who had announced it.

RBD hasn't posted yet in this thread... wonder why?

Lewis
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Jason Foo
Old Timer
Join date: 6 Feb 2004
Posts: 105
03-30-2006 04:43
So what a we gona do tonight anshe? The same thing we do every night pinky, try and take over the SL world.

Anshe didn't spend 8 years in evil medical school to be called ms anshe. Its Dr. evile to you.
Anshe will give you a good euro rate for your L$. The exchange would be 1 million dollars.

Since you came to SL Anshe, I thought you were just an overexcited land baron. but now I see that is only part of your master evile plan. Why do you insist on pushing your way deeper into control of the SL economy. You already cash out 150KUS$ from SL every year. what more do you want? do you want to own and run LL? If you want to run the game so much, why don't you use your 150K you cash out every year, and hire some programmers to create a new game of AL (Anshe Life) where can be god like you try to be here.

As some people said, this was not the place for you to post this, and I hope for everyones sake that your Anshe$ flops like a dead fish. I have been and always will be a loyal L$ holder, and my business will never accept Anshe$ in any matter. Go back to your dreamland and keep dreaming, because the only people who would turn to your alternate currency are dreaming as well.

And the L$ exchange is still a better currency exchange than in most RL countries! YES! There are RL countries that get a worse US$ exchange rate than our play money here! as much as I would love to get more money for my play money, its still better than some RL countries. So go ahead LL and do what you can with the currency rate. I will just accrue a stockpile until then. As for you Anshe, stop trying to control the entire game, and be happy with what you have. go any further, and I would say you are trying to rewrite the rules.

I give this thread another hour or so before its closed...


also, is it possible that the people selling at 300+ are anshe to drop the market of the L$??
Burnman Bedlam
Business Person
Join date: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,080
03-30-2006 04:45
In a free market, there is no such thing as a stable currency. As the population grows, there will be a change in the value of L$. As individuals horde L$, there is a change in the value of L$. As people who have horded L$ post large amounts of it to sell, there is a change in the value of L$.

This is the way of economics.

Second Life is maintained by Linden Labs. The currency in SL is Linden Dollars. I will neither support, or participate it, the use of an alternate currency that was not introduced... and regulated... by Linden Labs since Second Life is maintained... and regulated... by Linden Labs.

I will not support any venture that could cause harm to the L$ market, or the people who make SL possible (Linden Labs) for the express reason that the failure of LL means the loss of SecondLife.

I would personally love to see Linden Labs investigate the potential impact a secondary currency such as this would have, and post the findings so the population at large can have a better understanding.

And... furthermore... if it is determined that the creation of an alternative currency such as this could be found to hurt the business of LL, the people that make SL possible, action should be taken to ensure such harm does not come to pass.

The devaluation of the L$ through blatent disregard for the community at large is not only selfish... it is evil. It appears to me, after reading this thread, that the A$ is an attempt to devaluate the L$... and for any number of reasons.

None of which, as far as I can tell, are noble. Be wary of big-business when it tells you it's here to help... they're here to help themselves.
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http://theburnman.com


Not happy about Linden Labs purchase of XStreet (formerly SLX) and OnRez. Will this mean LL will ban resident run online shoping outlets in favor of their own?
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
03-30-2006 04:47
From: Fade Languish
Not really. There's a massive difference in infrastructure, development costs would be enormous, they are very different types of businesses.


Well, I guess that's what I don't understand. Basically, LL's business model is to sell land (tier/auctions) and L$ (premium memberships). Anshe - and the other barons - also sell land, which is essentially the same business - and LL pass all their costs, presumably plus a margin, on to Anshe and other landholders via tier... and she still makes a profit after them while LL are making a loss!

The essential point though is that barons effectively reduce LL's ability to make money selling land (eg, by making sure that all land is tiered to LL at the highest possible discount rate, while charging their own tiers to their residents). If LL are going to lose the ability to sell and maintain the L$ too, then what would be left for them to do but turn out the lights?

If Anshe (or anyone else!) wants to host their own world, then good for her! But if she (or anyone else!) can get all the economic and social privileges of being the host, while the actual host is losing money, then there's something wrong somewhere in the mix.
Kazanture Aleixandre
Here I am.
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 524
03-30-2006 04:51
From: Jason Foo

.....
.....
I give this thread another hour or so before its closed...
.....
.....

Kazanture Aleixandre wrote: 03.20.2006

....LL has a tendency, they usually wait till they see really BIG results at a situation like this. To solve abuse reports, this can be helpfull, to solve bug reports, this can be helpfull, to take care of tousands of residents' requests, this can be helpfull. But in economy, once they start to see results, it will be unstopable...

/130/87/94891/1.html#post945368
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
03-30-2006 04:54
From: Burnman Bedlam
In a free market, there is no such thing as a stable currency. As the population grows, there will be a change in the value of L$. As individuals horde L$, there is a change in the value of L$. As people who have horded L$ post large amounts of it to sell, there is a change in the value of L$.

This is the way of economics.

Second Life is maintained by Linden Labs. The currency in SL is Linden Dollars. I will neither support, or participate it, the use of an alternate currency that was not introduced... and regulated... by Linden Labs since Second Life is maintained... and regulated... by Linden Labs.

I will not support any venture that could cause harm to the L$ market, or the people who make SL possible (Linden Labs) for the express reason that the failure of LL means the loss of SecondLife.

I would personally love to see Linden Labs investigate the potential impact a secondary currency such as this would have, and post the findings so the population at large can have a better understanding.

And... furthermore... if it is determined that the creation of an alternative currency such as this could be found to hurt the business of LL, the people that make SL possible, action should be taken to ensure such harm does not come to pass.

The devaluation of the L$ through blatent disregard for the community at large is not only selfish... it is evil. It appears to me, after reading this thread, that the A$ is an attempt to devaluate the L$... and for any number of reasons.

None of which, as far as I can tell, are noble. Be wary of big-business when it tells you it's here to help... they're here to help themselves.





A Second Currency which is stronger than the L$ and backup by
a fixed supply would be a perfect commodity investment. Supply and
Demand would force the new currency to be a safe haven against the
wild swings and poor economic policy surrounding the L$.
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
03-30-2006 04:55
From: Lewis Nerd
Seems to me that you're the one with the axe to grind, your comments are targetted at me, whereas my comments would have remained the same about the impracticability of such a plan regardless of who had announced it.

RBD hasn't posted yet in this thread... wonder why?

Lewis


I address your points, unlike yourself.
I think RBD's American, so it's a timezone thing.
kerunix Flan
Registered User
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 393
03-30-2006 04:58
From: Yumi Murakami
Well, I guess that's what I don't understand. Basically, LL's business model is to sell land (tier/auctions) and L$ (premium memberships). Anshe - and the other barons - also sell land, which is essentially the same business - and LL pass all their costs, presumably plus a margin, on to Anshe and other landholders via tier... and she still makes a profit after them while LL are making a loss!


Linden Lab can stop the land baron business easily. they just have to stop selling new sim on auction.
And... guess what ? Linden Lab is selling more and more new sim on auction, every week.
And Linden Lab created a new tool so we can buy private island more easily.

Who's not doing right ? LL or Anshe ?
ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
03-30-2006 05:00
I propose the new currency be called Reserve Dollars (R$).
With a limit of R$10,000,000 printed. No new dollars will be
printed. Only L$ can buy the R$. With the high demand and
low supply, Reserve Dollars will become a type of Commodity
like Gold. A safe place to put your Linden Dollar Investment,
instead of cashing it out for US$.
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
03-30-2006 05:01
From: kerunix Flan
Linden Lab can stop the land baron business easily. they just have to stop selling new sim on auction.
And... guess what ? Linden Lab is selling more and more new sim on auction, every week.
And Linden Lab created a new tool so we can buy private island more easily.

Who's not doing right ? LL or Anshe ?



Like I said, Linden Labs cares nothing about the massive money
supply of Linden Dollars and its falling valuation. Just as long as
suckers keep buying land with US$, they are living on easy street.
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kerunix Flan
Registered User
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 393
03-30-2006 05:03
From: ReserveBank Division
A Second Currency which is stronger than the L$ and backup by
a fixed supply would be a perfect commodity investment. Supply and
Demand would force the new currency to be a safe haven against the
wild swings and poor economic policy surrounding the L$.


Oh well... so i'm agree with RBD ...
I guess i'll have to delete/edit all my post in this thread and start flaming anshe... or buy a rope ;)
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
03-30-2006 05:07
From: ReserveBank Division
I propose the new currency be called Reserve Dollars (R$).
With a limit of R$10,000,000 printed. No new dollars will be
printed. Only L$ can buy the R$. With the high demand and
low supply, Reserve Dollars will become a type of Commodity
like Gold. A safe place to put your Linden Dollar Investment,
instead of cashing it out for US$.


We wait until page 7 and that's the best you can come up with?

Lewis
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
03-30-2006 05:08
From: ReserveBank Division
I propose the new currency be called Reserve Dollars (R$).


You dont think Fade$ has a nicer ring to it?
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
03-30-2006 05:09
From: ReserveBank Division
A safe place to put your Linden Dollar Investment,
instead of cashing it out for US$.


Hahahahahaha :D
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
03-30-2006 05:17
From: kerunix Flan
Linden Lab can stop the land baron business easily. they just have to stop selling new sim on auction.
And... guess what ? Linden Lab is selling more and more new sim on auction, every week.
And Linden Lab created a new tool so we can buy private island more easily.

Who's not doing right ? LL or Anshe ?


Well, I don't think either of them are individually to blame. I don't think LL are stupid and Anshe isn't doing anything wrong by making money the best way she can. It's just that the end result just seems wrong.
Blakar Ogre
Registered User
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 209
03-30-2006 05:17
From: Anshe Chung
Silver EUR in bank safe.


Ok, so that is an answer to part of my questions from before then. Maybe you're not willing to answer it yet (but you'd have to disclose it anyway if you ever launch) but do you have an idea yet on what the base amount 'll be. I'd love to be able to get an idea on how much weight the A$ would be able to carry within the SL economy. So is it 100.000EUR or rather 1.000.000EUR?

Will it be stepped (by upping the backing when demand outweighs supply too much) or will it have a full volume launch (keeping the rate stable the first few months)?
Lord Wishbringer
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2004
Posts: 209
03-30-2006 05:18
I don't have the foggiest what you lot are harping on about.

Good day ;)
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
03-30-2006 05:22
From: Fade Languish
You dont think Fade$ has a nicer ring to it?



I thought of promoting "Nerdollars" as a viable alternative... but then I thought the concept was better represented by the "Whogivesabuck".

Lewis
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