The benefits of stipends being phased out.

i'm no harvard educated economist but it seems to me that all the bruhaha over stipends and how they are either ruining the "economy" or the only savior for the "little guy" is completely and utterly senseless.

while i'm sure some economic principles are applicable, but to expect sl's economy to fit a rl economic model, and then arbitrarily change rules to fit that model (while ignoring certain facts that have greater economic impact).

so stipends are ruining sl...but the ability for everybody to be able to "print" currency isn't an issue...in fact, adding lindens to the economy at will is such a good thing, you can buy them at a discount the more you buy at one time. anybody seen a figure on the amount of "currency" in use right now? oh wait...that figure wouldn't be accurate because many in-world transactions (land purchases and rentals, especially) are done in dollars only. hmm...

i think the sl economic purists should take some of that holier-than-thou-osity and use it to fly around the rl world...cuz it sure doesn't apply to sl...

I'd then call the police and have them arrest everybody for consumption of stolen property. And have each person repay their bill under court order.

Sorry making money off of peoples misfourtune is wrong and most likely it would be the police that take and distribe your water as this is illegal in most countries including the United States.
The perp trying to sell water to the dying ends up in jail and the people get the water Thank God Real Life is not as cut throat as second life , we live in a land of laws.

Sorry, but these ideas just dont fly. Thats probably why they are being ignored.

1) A fixed exchange rate is a broken idea. It just leads to abuse. Why did the world come off the gold standard? Why did the EU give up on the Exchange Rate Mechanism?

2) Its a good idea but totally unenforceable. How you can you prove whether someone acquired something as a freebie or not? The police force needed would cost a lot of money. Not to say that a police force wouldn't be useful, but we'd have to pay for it.

3) Again, who is going to police this? You know how many hundred gaming scripts there are out there? How often they get changed? Buyer beware, like always. Find a club with a good reputation.

4) Minimum wage enforced how? For doing what exactly? Lots of folks are on commission only, or tips only. Other places give people a share of the take.

Adding things like this to the ToS is effectively like running a managd economy in the same mould as the old communist regimes. To make it work at all, you need a police and justice infrastructure, courts, fair trials, enforcement, and everything else. There is no point putting anything in the ToS that isn't enforceable. It just punishes the good guys and does nothing to stop the bad.

90% of the people around here are Communist or Socialists. They can't understand Free Markets. Everything must be controlled in their attempts to create a Utopia. And I just love fools who believe printing more money and giving it away to the n00bs will make a strong economy. Nevermind the fact that money is a commodity and when its supply exceeds its demand, valuation declines. The Most Basic Laws of Economics work in SL. But these Socialists don't wanna hear it.

Translation: "This is great! Now instead of getting $6 of Lindens for free for paying $6/month, you can keep paying $6/month for your account AND pay $6/month for your Lindens!"

Unless I'm reading this wrong, how is this not costing me more money? I could 'Get the L$ I wanted at the time I wanted" when I was a basic member....

No it will still costs the same to be a "premium" member and you will be out the Lindens you use to get for "free" and have to pay extra money to buy them on the market.

If you want to "own" land on the mainland, you still need to be a "premium" member. You will just have to pay the $86.60 for the 26,000 Lindens that use to come with the account. You still pay the $6 a month for a $5 a month tier but get no Lindens. If you pay month to month it costs $9.95 a month for a $5 a month tier. You dont see the extra cost?

....I clearly see the extra cost. That is exactly my problem.

Accounts are free. If you renew a premium account for the stipend when the stipend has been lowered, then you are a fool. You don't need a premium account to buy from the Lindex. Unless Linden Labs lowers the price of the premium account, or they give more benefits to the premium account, it has become pointless to have one. If you have 512 meter2 of land, you should be renting, anyway with the stiff charge they give you for teir when compared to sim owners. That's alright, becaue they have announced that they will try to make their money in a way unrelated to the premium account. Drop your premium accounts unless you plan to be a big land owner, and then you have no extra fees for the game.

Renting is bloody expensive. The question is: Will rental prices come down? Answer: No. Prices never go down.

The Lindex has always costed within the range of the stipend's cost. The stipend has cost $L361/US$1-$L216/US$1. The Lindex costs less than those paying monthly, but more than those waiting a year. The immediate receiving of the money makes it worth more than that L$4400 you lost for the yearly fee, ecspecially with the high rates of return in Second Life. Even an unskilled person can put that money in Ginko to receive far more than the 26000$L they had to wait a year to get. Immediate money is always worth more than money you have to wait for. If you had the choice of someone paying you US$1200 a year for now or US$1000 today, which would you prefer.

Renting is cheaper than the lowest teir levels. It is cheaper to rent a 512 meter2 than it is to have 512 through a premium. The rental prices won't go down unless the top teir levels go down. I'm not sure who you are trying to rent from though. I've always seen cheap rent readily availble. Not only is the monthly fee cheaper, but you normally don't have to front the huge purchase price.

I should have mentioned I have pretty twisted definitions of 'cheap'. Mostly my fault. That and my game doesn't subsidize itself yet.

Really. My first apartment was free. Of course, it came with about a 30 prim limit. I pretty quickly discovered that you don't really need a place to "live."

Now a place to build, that is a different matter.

This is a big misunderstanding. Nothing has happened to benefit the fat cats here. If you have noticed, those wanting to make money are upset too, because Linden Labs is now going to try to make money directly in the Lindex market where money makers get paid. They have not favored the money makers in this deal. They have simply made premium accounts less worth while. Normal players shouldn't feel much effect in the long run if they can figure out that the stipend was never free money to begin with. You still get your stipend if you bought it when the rate was L$500/week. If you get the stipend when the rate is L$400/week, then you need stop and think about why you want a stipend in the first place. Is there any good reason to have the stipend over the immediate money you can have elsewhere when the stipend has become more expensive. Linden Labs has made it clear with this move that their plan to make money does not involve giving people incentive to have premium accounts. That might change with a cheaper premium account, or benefits to the premium account later, but for now, just give up your premium and enjoy the relatively equal costs that you have by playing the game as a basic member.

Why do I need Lindens? I got my "premium" account" in order to buy land and not for the stipend though it is a nice side benefit. I have all of the clothing and all of the toys etc. If I really need something I can arrange to pay from pay pal and that is a win win for both customer and seller. I also pay my tier to the government of Neufreistadt using my pay pal account. Why in the frack do I want to buy a promissory note not backed up by a Real World Government? I would rather put my money in a real bank than in a Linden buying scheme. I think that any "bank" in Second Life breaks countless national and state laws not to mention International agreements.

If you don't need $L, then don't buy them. Be content, because you never needed $L in the first place, and move on.

Whip those Socialists into shape.. They need to understand Capitalism...

I am waiting for my "premium" membership to expire to "move" on I will then drop back to basic membership. I think that second life is not a game but a social experiment in disguise. There is the out of control Capitalism with its anything goes. There are the different groups with their "role-play". There are the different questions of what is what in this digital world. Had always thought I knew the answers to certain questions of government, economy, etc but now am not so sure.

About Lindens and the stipends, etc. I think people are making too much of an issue of it. The change will not affect the "average" player in any meaningful way. Will just sit back and enjoy the soap opera of Second Life.

This thread is interesting reading.

However, before we get into a tizzy remember that LL has to honor its contracts with premium members. We signed a contract for 500L a week. Even though the L$ has no real monetary value, the contract still stands.

Reservebank, before you or anybody else starts talking about the TOS, remember that advertising laws require companies to put any disclaimers on the same page as the ads. And because the ad/sign up page had other disclaimers on it, LL has no defense against charges of false advertising.

Even if Phillip sells LL, the company who buys it has to honor the on-going contracts. Which means as long as we don't cancel our premium accounts, we should receive our premium stipends.

All very good points.

LL is honoring their contracts. All people that bought their premium account before the change still get L$500/week till the end of their contract. Only new premium accounts and renewed premium accounts after July 21 are set down to L$400/month.

Torley has said premium accouncts created before the cutoff date will not be affected at all. This includes renewewd.

Ahh, well that means this change likely doesn't even effect the people in the forums.

Due to a rl injury I'v been out of work and unfortunately my premium renewal is coming up the 28th. But food comes before a game. Don't think I'd upgrade back to premium though, as with the reduced stipend, it isn't worth the money they want. Perhaps in the future, but time will tell. I'm currently selling off land.

Oh yeah, don't expect any USD to go from my bank account to your sl account because I'm going basic. I refuse to buy lindens from other players.