Is it legal what IGE does?

Whew! That was close! I was about to make July another "commission free" month just to win back the hearts and minds of the masses...

I deal strictly with GOM now.

IGE scared me off after a user from another MMORG (that I have never ever played) was able to process a request for Gold using my account. Luckily, I did not have the funds in any linked accounts at the time to see that request finalized. I asked IGE to delete all my information from thier database. Just call me another case of bad book keeping.

IGE would be great if I didn't constantly hear about their almost daily screw ups. (hours-long waits, missing money, wrong money given, bad tech support, etc.)

And the fact that they have an unsavory reputation of literally RUINING MMORPG economies (they can't do that in SL, at least not as easily anyway)

You can't throw a rock without hitting someone that's had a bad experience with IGE.

The only complaint that people tend to leverage at GOM is their prices are "too low" and orders "aren't filled fast enough".. well, that's free market, baby. Don't be in such a rush and you won't get all bent out of shape.

Relax, post your bills on the GOM website, drink a beer, play some Rome Total War while you wait, or something.

LF

When I purchase L$, I choose IGE for 2 simple facts: 1) I don't have to do any calculation of fees to figure out my total price and 2) I don't have to have a PayPal (they have stolen over US$30,000 of my monies) or other online banking account. I can just use my plain old credit card and be done with it. I also don't sell L$ on either GOM or IGE, because, frankly, I am not in SL to make RL$, I have a nice job for that.

Customer service is a misnomer and is in the eye of the beholder. What I might consider atrocious customer service, others might consider decent, fair or terrific. What I might consider to be stellar customer service, someone else might consider atrocious.

We all have to step back a moment and really think through what happened. He had a bad experience. We all have bad experiences from time to time, but then he went and made the experience even worse by becoming in my estimation, a thief, by holding onto the more than extra refund. I have yet to here this person apologize or just plain giving back the extra money.

Not buying that. Being orginized and approachable, not to mention, you know, speaking the same language as your customers, is not "in the eye of the beholder", and customer service should never be a "misnomer", no matter how cynical a lense I view the world through.



Which is one in a long, dark, spotty history of bad experiences with IGE. It's not liket his is an isolated incident that will never happen again and has never happened in the past.



Why should he *appologise*? IGE did the exact same thing to him and didn't actually appologise. No, far from it. IGE routinely treats its customers *like* theives. So, ya know, while it's wrong, I gotta say it's kinda karmicly hillarious.

That said, I wouldn't return the money either until IGE was willing to handle it in a professional manner, for exactly the same reason that started all of this: Bookkeeping errors. Wouldn't it be lovely if the money was returned then, ya know, they decided it never had been returned anyways? It's not like IGE has never done things like that...

So you would lie.... and in the process steal a significant amount of money from someone. Wise decision.

Reading all the talk your spouting about IGE - I'm surprised they accept any transactions from you at all. Try treating them with a bit of respect next time and I'm sure it will go a long way.

P.S. Edit You mentioned 'they routinely have problems'... Have you ever compiled a list of those you believe to have been ripped off? Not people like Sky who are looking for an excuse to steal, but actual victims of fraud. That would definitally be something of interest.

Not lie, and not steal. Protect my a$$. Big difference. Even if IGE isn't willing to deal with me on a profesional level, I'm not going to drop to the same level. They can have their money back through proper, upfront dealings.



I have dealt with IGE exactly never, as a paying customer. That will never change. For the reasons I have mentioned. Frankly, I would be tickled pink if I found out they wouldn't accept transactions from me. And, no, I don't treat them with respect. In a buisness < > customer relationship, respect flows to the customer before it goes the other way around.

That said, I have tried to help out friends who have had problems with them in the past, and had some dealings with their employees as a result.



And where exactly do you come to that conclusion? And I suppose all of the other people on this forum alone who have had problems with IGE (Just do a search) are "just looking for an excuse to steal"?

Sorry, no. Search the forum for pretty much any online game, and you will read similar stories time and time again about IGE: Bookkeeping issues, poor customer service, fraudulant chargebacks due to their own bookkeeping issues, etc. Throw in the other fun stuff - wrecking game world economies, farming, etc - and I have a hard time buying that it's the fault of "people who are looking for an excuse to steal" that IGE has a bad reputation. What honestly surprises me is that it isn't worse than it is.

I can say that I am one of those victims that you claim don't exist. It has happened to be twice, once in SL and one with another game. At least in SL you have somewhat of a backing from LL. I don't think IGE is out to screw people, they just can't care enough to do things right. The transaction with L$ was fixed, after many phone calls, on-line chats, and e-mails. The transaction with the other game, well... I just gave up. There are just so many time you can insist that you did something before you realize it is move effective to talk to a brick wall.

Deklax,

You're way out of line with your comment and insinuation that I'm a thief. I am many thing, but I am not a thief. Your remark is uncalled for and highly offensive.

Why don't you take the time and read my posts regarding the issues I've had to endure during my transactions with IGE.

You will note that it was I who contacted them the very same day of their blunder to advise them of their gross error. It was I who repeatedly sent emails and IM's to them, (all of which went unanswered by the way) for the main purpose of returning the money they carelessly deposited into my account.

The point Deklax is... prior to posting such an offensive and damaging accusation, get your facts straight.

Also, remember they were the ones who initially attempted to keep a large amount of MY MONEY prior to my posting in this forum.

The same day my complaint was registered here, they sent the money (plus some)

Bah... I won't type and relive this experience specifically for your reading pleasure... I suggest you click on my name and find the posts I've written.. .read them, THEN comment.

I believe an apology is in order.

~Sky~

An apology? I obviously don't have all the facts and if they honestly ignored all your pleas to repay them then maybe there is honestly nothing more you can do but your statements above lead me to a few questions. I would always have them paypal me. If your worried about paypal then use an account unconnected with your bank.

Regardless, you basically asked them to make an exception to their usual 250k limit rule to sell a bunch of L$ - and during that process the special request held up your funds for immidiate processing and possibly flagged it in their 'security department'.

You wern't pleased with this delay so you requested a refund. In response they made a mistake and payed you more than you had given them. It was a obvious typo, yet you feel some delimma in whether or not to just return it. LL records every transaction so I don't see how your comment about later extortion is likely. If it had been my typo mistake I would feel cheated until it was returned (and probably follow my own rules from then on), hence my original comment.

What am I missing? Did you give it back or keep it? 50/50?

Its not that I claim they do not exist - I just question people like Reitsuki who rail against things they later admit they've never even used or interacted with. I am glad you posted though because I would like to see as many people as possible post stories like yours, preferably in one place, to see if there really is any fraud as some might claim (and what could be done about it) or just misunderstanding and miscommunication as I think occured here (considering Sky came out ahead).

You just love using a tiny portion of what someone says then ignoring other parts, don't you?

I specificly said I *have* interacted with them on several occasions in the past, and that while their customer service and shady operations and poor bookkeeping are a part of my complaints, I have other complaints (Destruction of MMORPG economies, farming, etc) against them as well.

It's not like I have a large store of secret knowledge either... Just in the claims on *these forums alone* I would have more than enough reasons to never use them even were I so inclined, and to warn others away. And I'm from other MMORPG worlds that have been plagued by them as well.

Soo.... which is it - or
... Your getting a little confusing.

Like I said, you seem to love to quote a tiny portion of a larger text and ignore the rest...

Quote the rest of that section please.

You've posted several times about the 'destruction' of MMORPG worlds by these trading companies... How does that take place? What are the signs of a 'destroyed' MMORPG?

When I picture such a scene I see a barren, lifeless grid with no users, a valueless currency that inflates exponentially as time passes, or an overabundance of powerful items offered by players that cut out all the work involved to advance. I'm sure you have more factors, but none that I can come up with are in any way controlled by traders. Linden Lab has been much smarter than most and chose not to design their game in such a clearly faulty way but most game companies seem to be half as smart as a single Linden. Can you really blame that on IGE?

Ask FF Online or Lineage 2 what a "destroyed" world looks like. Yes, it's a world where the economy is garbage, where it takes insane amounts of money to buy even pathetic shit, because everyone is buying money to buy other shit. Instead of establishing a stable-ish economy based around a relativly fixed income rate, IGE inflates the economy beyond all sane proportions, effectivly ruining the game for anyone who *doesn't* play the IGE-ed version of the game.

And yes, I can blame it on IGE: It's an inherent weakness of other game formats, yes, admittedly, but they *specificly forbid it* in their Terms of Service, and IGE does it anyways. Accounts get banned, but IGE is so well muled and backed up you just can't root them out.

oh.. sorry, the above title was a typo.. yeah you're right, we all make them.


You're talking out of the side of your mouth... really, please do your research before spouting off.

You can believe what ever you want to believe.. I don't know you, and frankly I don't want to know you.

Do me a favor and READ MY ORIGINAL post for ALL the information before you continue with your slandering remarks.


you said: (you assumed)

Regardless, you basically asked them to make an exception to their usual 250k limit rule to sell a bunch of L$ - and during that process the special request held up your funds for immidiate processing and possibly flagged it in their 'security department'.

I didn't ask them to make an exception for me. I asked them if multiple 250K transactions were acceptable. They said yes.

There was no negotiation, I didn't convince them to bend their policy for me. I simply asked a question, and received an answer. How is that and exception to their rule?

Several weeks later THEY decided they didn't want to process the order, and said they would return my funds.. to which I only recieved A PORTION.

oh you know what... I really could give a damn what you think. But I tell you now.. if you continue to post in these forums and accuse me of theivery.. I will get LL involved.

You have no basis for your accusations.. these are assumptions made by you because you refuse to read the facts before commenting.

So do us both a favor, get the facts straight, then comment.. or keep your personal opinions to yourself.

Enough said.

~Sky~

Haha. You rock. There are only two things I can definitively say:


In your last post you say you recieved only a portion, yet prior to my first post your last comments were that 'when finally they did return the balance, they overpaid me' so you planned to 'continue to hold their funds' until they contacted you. My first comment was (I believed clearly) based on the comments you had made prior to its posting only. If this statement was incorrect or has changed since then - say so. I would stress that I have accused you of nothing. I have just questioned the balance of a situation presented by you publically as you chose to reveal it. How that reflects on you personally is inconsequential to me - as is the outcome of the situation.

I think a good proof of product delivery is the transaction recorded on the SL website in your account transaction history. Maybe that could help.

Actually, it's not, as far as Paypal is concerned. Paypal refuses to arbitrate delivery of virtual goods.

Better Business Bureau

IGE

Score: F

http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=100013679

"F: We strongly question the company’s reliability for reasons such as that they have failed to respond to complaints, their advertising is grossly misleading, they are not in compliance with the law’s licensing or registration requirements, their complaints contain especially serious allegations, or the company’s industry is known for its fraudulent business practices."





PayPal

Member of BBB

"BBB Membership Status

This company has been a member of this Better Business Bureau since August 2001. This means it supports the Bureau's services to the public and meets our membership standards.

Nature Of Business

PayPal is an online payment service that enables businesses and consumers with an email address to send and receive payments online. PayPal currently has approximately 78 million account members and they operate in 45 countries.

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record ith the Bureau. To have a Satisfactory Record with the Bureau, a company must be in business for at least 12 months, properly and promptly address matters referred to it by the Bureau, and be free from an unusual volume or pattern of complaints and law enforcement action involving its marketplace conduct. In addition, the Bureau must have a clear understanding of the company's business and no concerns about its industry.

BBB Definition:

satisfactory record - A business identified in our report as satisfactory has, based on Bureau files, been in business for at least one year, and has voluntarily provided the Bureau with all information requested about the business and its product or service. If any complaints have been received about the business, their number has not been considered by the BBB to be extreme, given the nature of the company's business and the volume of business transacted. Complaints are also generally typical of what might be expected for this type of business. A business stated to be satisfactory has not been the subject of any recent law enforcement actions concerning its dealings with the public. If the business has been contacted by the BBB about its advertising or selling claims, it has modified or substantiated its practices to the Bureau's satisfaction. In addition, the BBB has a clear understanding of the company's business, and the business is not in an industry which has raised significant marketplace concerns.



When considering complaint information, please take into account the company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints.

The Bureau processed a total of 3815 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 3815 complaints closed in 36 months, 1489 were closed in the last year."




And finally...



Linden Labs

Nature Of Business

This company offers online games.

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record ith the Bureau. To have a Satisfactory Record with the Bureau, a company must be in business for at least 12 months, properly and promptly address matters referred to it by the Bureau, and be free from an unusual volume or pattern of complaints and law enforcement action involving its marketplace conduct. In addition, the Bureau must have a clear understanding of the company's business and no concerns about its industry.



The Bureau processed a total of 2 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 2 complaints closed in 36 months, 1 was closed in the last year.

I'll just say I haven't been comfy with the IGE Wheeling avatar on a personal up to this point in time. I leave room for this to change, but each of the time I've encountered her before—which looks like a strange Ruth variant with a flip of the gender switch—she's been starkly silent, or if moving around, unhelpful to answer my queries. Avatar inworld as a cozy customer rep is a BIG plus.

I've never had any problem with IGE or Wheeling, but I've only bought L from them twice.

Resorting to complaining to the BBB usually doesn't get the gears going, so perhaps these complaints were by nontechsavvy people who didn't understand how to reload the order status page?