Anshe, Ginko, Linden Research, MONEY!

Yanno what, I could keep going on this, but I think there's been enough said.
All told, I feel that the concept of this seeming like a pyramid scheme holds true, but if you could, for example, cover things if all of the holders pulled out, then I suppose there's no issues, right?

Hey guys, what goin---- OH LAWD, IS THIS SOME FORUM DRAMA?!

Anshe, you are a much larger force in the SL economy than Ginko could ever be. You practically buy and sell continents every week. Tell me... why shouldn't we be worried about your earnings? ARe you disclosing all of your profit/loss statements? How about your RL status so we can see if you're about to lose your house or not, and hence your ability to keep AnsheLand running?

To get even more hyperbolic, having you leave the game /dump the market /get banned / whatever would make people lose not only virtual money, but their virtual homes and possessions.

Think of the prim babies!

Seriously. If we're going to worry about Ginko, we're going to worry about you more.

Who's the one that gets all the press coverage? Hint: her name rhymes with "hung". Ginko is under the press's radar. They don't make $US 200,000 a year. They don't attempt to influence Linden policy in overt power grabs. They don't pull stunts like this in order to get customers/crush their competition.

They also don't threaten people on the forums.

LF

I've always said Lordfly, it's we (the masses) who inhibit such powerful/popular people. I for one don't know, don't care, and already don't like this Anshe.

She'd be really goddamn screwed if this was her life, and she turned the masses on her so that noone bought her property. Try hitting the unemployment line for a bit rather then your keyboard.

I just find it pathetic that Linden Labs doesn't have the balls to do something about people who make the game a drag to sign into -- I'm not saying Anshe does, but I've looked for land forever and these jack off Land Barons own everything ...and that sucks ...so yea, I'm saying Anshe DOES make SL suck, so when SL goes down (like all games to eventually -- albeit a long time from now) I hope Anshe has more money invested than she can pull out and she bites it.

*edited*

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm all for self made millionaires, but there is a "good, decent, fair" way to do it, and then there is the shady, underhanded backstabbing Land Baron way to do it...

I dont need to explain each type, you know what Im talking about and your mothers all taught you the difference, whether you believe in it or not, the majority of the world does and you can only be SO backstabbing and underhanded until it catches up to you ...usually in the form of someone you FCKED coming to your mansion with a little cheap pistol and shooting you in the head ...too bad we can't do that in SL huh? I'll be a martyr.

Do you see no difference, LF, between someone's earnings, and funds someone has accepted as an investment on someone elses behalf, which do not belong in any sense to the person receiving them? If to you these things are equivalent, then I am amazed and disquieted.

I am concerned about Anshe, but only to the extent that she too holds in trust something someone else has "paid for", which she could abscond with. In her case the only items in that category are the plots she has "sold" on her private islands.

You must know I have bored forum, and antagonised Anshe, by issuing repeated warnings on this, and agitating endlessly for more transparency and less misleading nomenclature.

But that land is still here in SL, and it would be slow, difficult, and value-damaging to repossess, divest, and do a runner. And a huge amount of genuine self-owned land would have to be sold for a song too. A huge loss. A huge punishment for such wrongdoing. And a huge, reliable, regular income would be being thrown away.

Moreover, I understand Anshe has now revealed her RL identity to selected people, and has appeared in person, and established personal relationships, at SLCC.

So compared with Ginko, she is hugely more disadvantaged in attempting a fraud, with immensely more to lose.

Ginko already has the money gone and out of reach. It has no income to lose. Anonymity could easily be total. All that is needed to escape with everything it has in hand is simply to never log on again. What could be simpler ? Wouldn't almost anybody be tempted unless guided by the highest of morals? Haven't we done everything to assist short of going down on our knees and begging to be scammed ?

The perpetrator (if it turns out that that is what he is) would not find it hard to convince himself that the "investors" had been guilty of blind greed, and deserved a lesson.

This idea that there is some equivalence in risk from Anshe and Ginko, suggested so regularly here, is clearly wrong. Badly wrong.

In SL, I don't see a difference at all. It's the same action on the pie menu.. "pay".

When you pay Anshe Chung, you expect a product and/or service of hers: Land.

When you pay GinkoTec, you expect a product and/or service of theirs: a savings account.

What's the difference? After you pay them your money, it is out of your hands. It's gone. You expect a service or result of that money, sure. But you are no longer in control of the funds you willingly paid to those companies.




Maybe I'm missing something here. Anshe "owns" her private sims (as much as anyone can own land in SL). At any point in time, she can simply call up LLab and say "right, I'm done, turn those sims off", and they'd be gone in the blink of an eye. Poof, there goes the investment in time and energy for hundreds of residents.

Is she likely to do this? I doubt it. I also doubt Ginko is going to run out the door with their petty amount of cash, either.



Selected people? She's given her RL identity to the press on numerous occasions. It's floating out there on the intertron, waiting to be plucked.

But so what? I know who a lot of people are in SL; it doesn't make fraud any harder for someone determined to take the money and run.




Again, I reference my example of Anshe simply pulling the plug on her continent. Whoosh, there goes hundreds of homes and thousands of dollars' worth of content. All she has to do is simply not log on again. There are no legal repurcussions for turning off her continent. None. There is no binding contract that says she MUST provide these sims to her customers. Very easily she could simply make them cease to render, and wander off to some other game to play under another identity.

So you know who she is? Great. Good luck getting anything out of her. People get scammed on ebay all the time, with the identity of the fraudster known. What happens? Generall,y not a damn thing.




No, in both instances, you expect a service. After you right click and pay, the rest is out of your control.

LF

Yeah, you're missing about $60,000 USD. Unless she sold those sims to other people, that's what she'd be out.

She has invested 60,000 USD + $44,000 USD into SL. Plus probably a lot more considering the land she owns... I would say she currently has over $150,000 USD sunk into SL.

Unlike others, who have, what? 8000?

I mean, basically, LL is giving permission to Anshe to sell all her SIMs and walk away.

Why not? Ginko has gotten permission.

There is a difference.

The servers driving Dreamland are real, and while they may be unplugged they do exist, and aren't going anywhere.

The people using her services are real, and many would presumably be willing to pay someone else, or even LL directly.

Thus the market for the abandoned sims would be pushed to the demand side, hard. I could see people immediately carving up the marketshare she would leave behind.

Lastly - this is pure speculation on my part, but I would *guess* that Anshe is profitable, or close to it. If so, there will always *be* someone doing what she does. It's not all about an individual, it's about the opportunity available.

- Desmond

What I don't understand is the idea that some one can create a business and it is somehow off limits to any discussion. Only people who invest in it can talk about it? A business is by definition, a public endeavor. It's not something you're doing in the privacy of your own bedroom. Any public endeavor is subject to public scrutiny and discussion. You do it, others get to talk about it. They also get to criticize and complain. The sooner you get used to it the better off you'll be.

And since you clearly say that Ginko is not untrustworthy, are you going to back the investors with your money? How about this for a cease fire agreement? If the people who support Ginko will agree to back the investments with their own money, will the people who are criticizing Ginko stop?

Wow, yes.

My business is a public endevor, but I rather deal with people who have some semblence of intelligence.

Wow...

You're kidding, right?

You harpies will just find some other thing to whine about.

It's people like you who make SL an unpleasant place to hang out sometimes.

I f*cking hate crusaders.

Unfortunately, LL isn't so selective.

Hmmmm. Remind me never to trust you with anything that isn't yours, LF. Seems it becomes yours the moment it touches your sticky hand, if you mean what you say.........

Popped into the forums recently since I haven't visited in a while and notice the huge controversy about Ginko v Anshe Chung. Interestingly enough I haven't seen anyone complain about SL Solutions and their stock exchange, which I thought would have raised the same concerns as those for Ginko?

In any case. Until I have some form of legal course in Real Life I don't trust any virtual business as far as I can throw them This goes for Anshe, Ginko or SL Solutions. Until some of these virtual businesses register as real life companies in the real world then for me its always going to a risky endeavour dealing with them and because of that my investment will also be based on a "caveat emptor" basis, only investing what I am willing too lose.

Incorporation in the real world with all the usual disclosure requirements like real name, address and ownership is something that could help smooth some of the trust issues.

To be fair, once it reaches my SL bank account, I have zero obligation to do anything except keep it in there, or even sell it off on the Lindex.

Fortunately, I'm generally a nice guy, and help my customers however I can. I've actually yet to have an unsatisfied customer, though. To my knowledge, anyway. Angry enough to send me a message.

LF

This thread seems to have outlived its usefulness and as such is being closed, I have also removed the personal attacks from this thread. Please do not personally attack those you do not agree with in the forums.