Web Gaming Dispute Grows

Copyright 2006.
Warren Communications News, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.

WASHINGTON INTERNET DAILY

Monday, May 15, 2006 Vol. 7, No. 93

WEB GAMING DISPUTE GROWS as other Second Life users surface
with claims of being locked out of the game unfairly.
Federal court case in the works, user says. (P. 3)

More Court Complaints?

Plot Thickens in Second Life Scuffle

A real world lawsuit over a virtual land deal gone sour
could spur more legal action if the company at the center of
the controversy doesn't make amends with its users. A suit
filed last week by attorney Marc Bragg against Second Life, a
3-dimensional Web game created by Linden Lab (WID May 9 p3),
has prompted other players to contact Washington Internet
Daily to tell similar stories about being owed money and
seeing their accounts frozen. Linden's lawyers continued to
decline to discuss the allegations with reporters.

Last week's suit, filed in W. Chester, Pa. small claims
court was the tip of the iceberg, users told us. That
complaint sought $8,000 in financial damages, in part for a
breach of a virtual land auction contract and for violation
of the state's Unfair Trade Practices and Consumer Protection
Law. Web developer and Second Life gamer Paul Coates, who
has been barred from the game over a land deal, said he was
putting the finishing touches on a complaint Fri. to be filed
in U.S. Dist. Court, Ocala, Fla. The stakes in his suit will
be higher than Bragg's, he told us.

Coates, whose game name is "Mezentius Speculaas," bought
several plots of land in an auction, kept one and resold the
rest for a profit. The cut-rate price he paid for the land
was a red flag for Second Life administrators he alleges
barred him from the game and confiscated the virtual
property. Coates said Linden notified him by e-mail that the
land had been acquired through an unauthorized exploit. He's
unsure how much real money is locked up in the game because
he's cut off from his account. The game's currency is called
"Lindens" and the conversion rate is roughly 300 Lindens for
every $1. Money conversions are done through PayPal.

While Bragg told us he just wants to get his money and
return to the game, Coates wants the court to ensure that
Linden Lab is "disconnected from the Internet." He contends
the dispute is much wider than a few account-holders being
locked out. "I'm going to see that Linden surrenders all of
their computers to the courts for inspection, which includes
logs," he said: "If the courts rules in my favor, I will ask
that every single employee of Linden Lab be prohibited from
using a computer for the specified term" under Fla.'s
computer crimes statutes. Coates called the situation a
"continuing fraud" because, he said, Second Life's owners
know "innocent people come up to these auctions, bid on them
and get the auctions and believe they were legitimate."

Second Life player Don Spencer, known online as "Thunder
Lardner," is equally miffed. He was also barred from the
game after buying cheap land in an auction and selling it, he
told us. Before bidding on the plot, he sent a message to
the game's administrators asking if the price was right.
They simply wished him luck in his auction, essentially
giving him the green light to bid, he said. Once Spencer had
the property, he was blocked from the game and accused of
getting the land by hacking the site. "I was accused of
being a hacker. I was accused of exploiting their system,
when all I did was follow their rules. Then they want to
turn around and screw me," Spencer said. Linden's rules call
for a 5-day investigation into incidents like these, he said.
But it's been 11 days with no word from the company, Spencer
said.

About $1,800 is trapped in an account he can't get into,
said Spencer, a Fla. minister: "I can't touch my money. I
can't go into the game. I can't play... I don't cheat. I
don't lie. I don't steal. I don't know how much more honest
they want someone to be." His wife's Second Life account has
been frozen, too, because she posted Spencer's complaints on
the game's community forums, he alleged. Some members of the
3-dimensional Web world have slammed Spencer for being a
hacker, and he hasn't been able to defend himself, he said.
"Linden Lab is letting the people on the forums eat us
alive," he said. There are countless others who've done
nothing wrong and are being shut down, Spencer added.

The growing controversy could hurt Second Life in the
long run, Spencer warned: "Two years from now, nobody's
going to remember these auctions but they're going to
remember Linden Lab's response to them." -- Andrew Noyes

Nutter.

This is where I think LL may have a problem:



I could most definitely see this happening.

{bold added to assist people in understanding this comment is far from being anything other than merely speculative and based on nothing more than the potentially flawed reports from one party involved in the dispute.}

He alleges he sent a message. We have no clue what actually happened. Of course LL isn't going to comment on a pending lawsuit - that's normal.

LL doesn't have a problem with that message. Wishing luck in an auction is not the same as giving the green light to bid. The auction in question was still closed.

It's like wishing luck for a marriage that's happening two months later. Wishing luck doesn't mean the marriage happened already.

To "essentially" give a green light he would have to show an explicit statement saying "You may commence bidding" or words to that effect.

The only "essence" I see is wishing luck.

Yawn.

One word springs to mind.

Bandwagon.

Pity some of these idiots don't fall in front of it rather than jumping on it.

Lewis

one point to note. Is there any proof that any of the lawsuits have actually been filed? Something verifyable not a press release?

Until there is some sort of proof it just looks like scare tactics to me. Sorry to have to say that but speculation is just getting to wild.

Lewis, if I put my "day job hat on" I am becoming uneasy about some facets of all this.

Putting aside the issue of Linden Dollars and if they have fungible value or not and the legal issues of virtual currency et al......

Real US dollars are an entirely separate issue, especially if held by Linden Labs on behalf of its clients. In my own country (UK) they (Linden) just may be considered to be either a licensed deposit taker OR required to hold client monies in a separate trustee account. In any event they could be required to be authorised under the Financial Services Market Act 2000.


Dont get me wrong, I have no issues with Linden running a platform/game for entertainment and virtual commerce but I think some basic rethinking may well be called for

I can't believe that LL would be so dumb as to not check out the legalities of selling game currency for real money before offering it as part of the experience.

I would guess that LL has access to much bigger and better legal experts with far more experience than an ambulance chaser, so the original lawsuit itself doesn't particularly worry me for the future of SL - but the negative press generated by all the lawsuits being independently filed may well be damaging, even if most of them have no real basis whatsoever. Non-players who don't know the history won't be aware of that.

If anything bad does happen to SL/LL because of this lawsuit, one particular ambulance chaser's life may well suddenly become very unpleasant since he decided to let out all his real life information for all to see. Considering the way that so many people take SL seriously - and the income they make from it - and how threatened they feel when there's a risk of that changing..... you can't help but wonder how smart an idea this all was.

Lewis

There is litigation pending and/or in progress. If you were to put your day job hat on one more time, wouldn't the very first thing you'd do as the game company, be to lock these accounts down and ensure that absolutely, positively nothing else occurs with them until there is resolution? I would definately do this, and I would also cease to communicate with the account holders immediately.

I don't know why they're so alarmed. If they wanted to be communicating with LL and cashing money out, they shouldn't be in court.

This is so true, linden lab does screw you. I've set some plots of land to sell for highly expensive rates and people have allegedly "accidentally purchased it" and so I was up 100K for a day, the next morning I logged in to find that the land was returned to me with out the 100k.

I phoned in to linden labs and they said "Well we ran into a bug, the person thought it was on sale for 10K but it sold for 100K to her. We refunded the money and gave your land back, you are not at a loss." So then I went on to say "No it wasn't a bug, I set it to sell for 100K and she purchased it. Why did you refund the money? Especially with out contacting me first". The support guy on the phone said "Sir, your are not at a loss and so this should not matter." so again i said "Yes I am, you refunded my money with out consent and for no reason. Just because someone accidnetally purchases L$100k worth of land doesn't mean you refund it, you have precautions for that. I highly doublt it was an accident, more likely second thoughts".

The guy then raised his voice and actually took an angry tone with me and said "Well, you're not at a loss. You have what you started with and so there is no loss at all, have a good day sir" and he hung up.

SL is untrustworthy in my eyes.

You should take this up the ladder a bit, I think. I don't know if support really understands these types of issues too well.

I also can't believe that Mezentius Speculass was banned, he was my friend and neighbour in Flyingroc Chung. His plots of land bordered mine on the sim corner, he was very pleasnt and a kind neighbour. Anshe Chung was selling really cheap land there and there was a lot of profit. Shame on SL for banning him, SL must really be under pure retarded management if they banned him. Linden employee's, fu(|( you.

I did, i emailed support, billing, and a few others with my case. No response came back. I also came to the forums and posted, you can guess what the typical response was "oh well you're not at a loss so who cares, it's just a game"... yea but if it is just a game, it still involves real money. The typical kiss a$$ avatar response was, "oh well who cares, it's not me so lets flame". Try and find a post where everyone comes to an agreement, you can't find one.

It's quite hard to "accidentally" buy land as the system does take more than 1 click and does prompt you with an "are you sure" and a reminder of the amount. LL should talk to the seller of the land first,before applying the rewind button.

Accidentally selling land at rediculously low prices, well that's another matter that some newb will always fall foul of until LL rewrite the system for land sales such that the final act is the tick the box for sale (and can be done until, who-to and price are set)

Of course they should. That's why I suggested that he take it up the ladder rather than dealing with tech support on the issue. You're preaching to the choir.

i gave up long ago, no one listened and no one really wanted to listen. It's just the fact that they treated me like nothing that bothers me and it happens to a lot of people. I can understand it might be different if it was a n00b selling land for 1L and it's a 10k sqm plot but i was selling land for 100K and they said that my sell price was inaccurate. Pretty sure i set it to sell for 100K, i had 100K and then my account was forced to refund the 100K while i was in bed.

I'd imagine that Linden Labs in the end will have to refund any US $ if they can't prove that those dollars were owed to them, unless they specifically post some fee associated with shutting down an account and repairing any damage associated with "exploits." It also sounds like the fellow in Florida actually warned Linden Labs that the exploit was possible, and they didn't pay attention.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've been around long enough to know that you don't just blow someone off when they claim that you owe them money--especially if you DO owe them money because they've deposited it in an account with you. I can't possibly imagine what argument Linden Labs will put forth to claim that they have the right to confiscate cash unless they actually bill the person for the amount in their account and can document what they are being billed for.

Linden dollars or Linden land are something else, as they essentially all belong to Linden Labs anyhow. The courts really will have to sort that one out.

I'm not too sure, but should anyone really expect to be repaid any monies they have invested in an illegal act?

what was illegal though? no one did anything illegal aside from linden lab, which the courts will sort out.

This guy found a way to bid on sims that weren't supposed to be up for auction yet. He won in auctions that nobody else even knew about. It was underhanded and unethical. It also got him booted. Good for LL.

If you found a way to buy a sim for a thousandth of the regular price would you buy it or ask LL if it was a glitch? This guy bought them. Either he's really really naive and didn't know that he was taking advantage of an exploit, or he knew exactly what he was doing. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

I can't wait to see him having to pay LL's court costs.

If someone buys land..then it shouldn't be switched back like that. Remind them you are at a loss for teir and time, and effort. Take it further up the chain, if they do the right thing they will take the money from those whos bids were reversed, and get them the land, so you are really 'not at a loss' now.

The land in question was stolen from LL. If you buy stolen goods, even if you don't know they've been stolen, you have no right to them. The person they were stolen from has no obligation to refund your money. I steal your car and sell it to Frankie. You call the cops, they take the car back. Do you feel obligated to refund Frankie the money he spent?

If LL reverses the sale and refunds the buyers out of the thief's account, good for them. They aren't obligated to though.

I'm talking about land he put up for auction, someone buys, then claims a 'mistake' so its reversed. Nothing about stolen land, and LL should have something up to prevent bids of 3 dollars anyway..