17.7M in Sinks to a whopping 59.2M in Sources!!

I've said in the past that reduced fees with no stipend would be accptable. Its just I won't pay the -current- cost without the stipend. Ive gone through the phase of not wanting to drop premium and grinning and bearing it. With gridwide sales down, scaling down is a distinct possibility, if not going to renting entirely.

Forgive me if this has been suggested already, I tend to skim a post here and there when they get long winded (LIKE THIS ONE WILL BE) )

How about eliminating a location's rank based on traffic in the find window, and rather "float" the cost of your classified listing. The highest payer per catagory will show up #1 on the list, and so on. Let the companies fight out amongst themselves.

This will 1) Take Linden off the market, as increasing amounts are paid back to LL and "destroyed". 2) More accurately reflect the true popularity of a place, as only the best companies will be able to afford a top listing. Sort of like real life? (GASPS)

Ohh but what about the little guy starting out? Well, if you have some high quality product, or great concept - make the investment in paying for the expensive 'advertising' and word of mouth will spread. Or start small. Be entrepreneurial!

Just thinking outloud, thanks!

Which makes LL more money?

Premium 6-10US/mo 512m, 2166.6L/mo avg

discontinue Premium accounts and all stipends.

512m = $5/mo

2166.6@ 300L/$1 = $7.22US

total = $12.22USmo and if they bring the exchange rate back to 250?

512m = $5/mo

2166.6@ 250L/$1 = $8.66US

total = $13.66US/mo

Selling the components is worth 22-127% more to LL than the current system.(Depending on exchange rate and old payment.

Popularity shouldn't be based on how much money you have... it should be based on the opinion of those who visit your land.

Reintroduce voting stations into SL and base popularity on a ratio comparing number of votes and parcel traffic.

For example... the more votes your land gets per 100 visitors, the more popular your location is. Gives the little guy a chance to earn some traffic from higher popularity ratings, and forces everyone to produce good content.

The more diverse the content being released, the more money will flow, and the faster it will move through the LindeX... beefing up the value of the L$.

(and kill camping)

Are you asking what would make LL, or what would make you more money?

Are you tired of 1st land popping up and taking away all of those potential customers? lol

(mostly teasing)

First land is an incentive people get to sample land ownership then hopefully move to something larger. An incentive that costs LL $7.8125US per premium acct that claims it. Many people aren't satisfied with 512m. I don't have a problem with first land. Discontinuing first land is just another savings for LL that I didn't think of when I made the post. And IMO that's what stipends and first land is all about incentives they are supposed to fuel the desire for more which costs money. The question is does LL think they still need to offer the incentives and according to Vashuda(sp) that answer is no. Ultimately what matters isn't what the best policy is it's what LL think's the best policy is. When you factor in Vashuda saying the economy doesn't need stipends, LL's push for private islands(which allow land ownership by basic accounts without first land), several staff members saying that we are moving away from an entitlement economy, and the new selling Lindens inititive. I'd say the writing is on the wall.

If there is one thing I have learned in 13 years of business...

The wall may have a message written on it... but it's hard to see under all the spraypaint.

Don't forget that being premium allows you to have the right to pay land tier. Figure that in to how LL makes money too. If people drop their premium memberships and rent from people who pay less tier per square meter than when the ex-member was a small landowner, LL loses quite a bit, EVEN if the ex-member rents the same amount of land they used to own (which in my opinion is unlikely - they would economize space and use less land, driving down the need for land and thus land tier payments to LL).
Also, are you saying that LL should create money out of thin air when people pay them USD? How would people get USD back out of the system? Reselling directly to LL?

* ADVERTISMENT *

Having a hard time getting your business out to the SL masses?

Would you like to increase your exposure to the vast world that is Second Life?

Then retain the services of "Cheyenne's Guaranteed Top Vote, Inc."

For a very nominal fee, Cheyenne and her associates will monitor your location to make certain that your business consistently attains the required votes to be a top vote getter in the Second Life community.

So don't wait!

IM Cheyenne now and become one of the most popular designer/creator/builder in Second Life!

I can see your name in all its bright lights and glamour now, Mr Burnman ...

... "BURNMAN BEDLAM CREATIONS" ...

"Ooooh...you are so popular Mr. Burnman sir "

That's what I'm saying! Everything always boils down to $$$ - so cut out some middle men and get the Linden back to LL so we can firm up the currency.

"Shouldn't be driven by how much money you have" HUH? It is in RL! My Joe Scmoe's whatevah shop has to go by word of mouth and maybe a yellow page listing, whereas Toyotal and Microsoft buy superbowl ads! Thats how things work...

And if I make good stuff, eventually I'll have a superbowl ad of my own. Paying people to sit on your land OR paying for votes, its not a good way of factoring true popularity. The amount of $$$ your business brings in (ie: free market) is.

1. LL could easily return basic accounts to being able to own land. My post assumed that but didn't state it my mistake.

2. Renters go to their landlord when they have problems, owners go to lindens so they can save on support staff.

3.

512m = $1.52/mo(195/12

2166.6@ 300L/$1 = $7.22US

total = $8.74USmo(better than quarterly and annual)

512m = $1.52/mo(195/12

2166.6@ 250L/$1 = $8.66US

total = $10.18US/mo(better than even monthly)

4. Renting is alrdy cheaper than owner people own for personal reasons not price. I doubt the balance between renters and owners would change much.

5. "Also, are you saying that LL should create money out of thin air when people pay them USD?"

They do this with stipends already. The disturbing thing isn't them creating money for cash its the fact that by doing so directly instead of through stipends there is no control on how much LL creates. They want more money they lower their price target and undercut more residents. Honestly an economy when LL placed an unlimited sell order at $250L/$1 and an unlimited buy order at $300/$1 could be a good thing. The question is do you trust a company that is LOSING MONEY to ONLY sell lindens if the economy NEEDS them or to sell them There is a vast and dangerous difference between need and can absorb.

Just some thoughts, not to be taken completely seriously:

I don't have exact statistics, but this is what we do know:

106,852 = Users in the past 60 days
49,935,550 = L$ doled out in stipends in April

Let us overestimate, and assume that 106,852 was the number of unique users logged in within just april alone. We know at least, that it can't be more than that, and overestimating to be safe...

Assume that every one of those users was a basic user, making L$50 a week, and that they logged in at least often enough to make stipend once a week.

That totals out to L$21,370,400 - at most - ever going to basic users. That would be if all 100000+ users were basic accounts, and they all logged in every week.

Every user who is not a basic account however, detracts from the basic user count, leaving us with total = paid + basic.

So... paid * 2000 + basic * 200 = totalStipend, which means that roughly 15870 paid users, getting L$2000 a month, raked in approximately L$31,740,000, and that 90,982 basic users, getting L$200 a month, raked in approximately L$18,196,600.

If we take a slightly more realistic estimate and say that only 60,000 or so users logged in during April, then 21,075 paid users took in L$42,150,000 in stipend, and the basic accounts (assuming they all logged in every single week) took in less than 8 million.

L$2000 at a minimum cost of $6 USD per month (for the base 512m), assuming yearly membership, means that at current prices of L$305 per USD, paid accounts are pretty much breaking even including transaction costs, if they were to just cash out through Lindex, AND they get free land. Or they're paying for land and getting free L$, which pretty much, no matter how you look at it, is flooding the market in one way or another.

I agree with separating the paid account stipend, and land ownership costs. I'd love to pay a tiny fee and get land without the L$. Maybe I should just get an account and cash out my unwanted $L through Lindex? And hey, it would make Lindex more active. (edit)

I'm probably in the vast minority, what with making almost my own things. Don't get me started on that though... even if every asset was a half a meg in size, LL could fit 1 million assets on a 500GB hard drive, in return for L$10,000,000, or about $32,000. Based on April's data, they pulled in the rough equivalent of $16,000 USD in upload costs.

*end blah blah blah* Just some thoughts. Ignore if you want to, I most likely won't read replies.

As said in my first post in this thread:


Robin attached the data to that post.

if you believe for a minute that LL isnt making a profit your not paying attention! stipened isnt a factor for premiums. we more than pay for it. think LL should worry more about fixing sl's in world tech messes than controlling the economy! think of this LL slowly pulls out all incentives to players , and that doesnt help thier profits? lets see, uh they put out less and take in more gee seems profitable to me!

Actually LL has stated they aren't making a profit... pay attention.

What Linden Labs should be doing is investing into the
ability of creating many virtual sims from the least amount of
hardware. One Server Per Sim means they are shelling out googles
of money for rack space and hardware.

Thanks. I'll take a look.

Actually, it's more like one sim per CPU. Depending upon the class of server, a server runs one (Class2), two (Class3), or four (Class4) sims. See Lee Linden's post at /111/2f/66175/1.html#post690056 for more details. If you want to see what sims are sharing a server, try http://neighbours.maxcase.info/

And what is the cost of a Class4 server? Multiply x180 and I'm sure it is
a pretty penny...

Thank you for telling him. I knew but won't reply to his attempts at communication.

Too Bad, because I Own Joo Jonas... Defeated at every
economic debate...

Did you read the paper today? The L$ is trading at L$315..
Let me rub it in some more: "I told you so"

OMFG! Ok lets check this , LL started 4 years ago. fact. Now with all the servers, hardware, Staffing, etc and everything that they are responsible for running ,Do you really believe that LL is in the red? Think google got in to lose money? NOOOOOOOO! LL has to show investors a return or theyd be out of business already. The longer im around SL the more im reminded of RL! As in the fact that the way the in world economy is going it sets up , just like RL, the big guys to get bigger and the little guys to pay for it!!! Of course if you think im wrong you can always ask LL to see thier books , and when they show you be sure to ask for the second set of books , not the ones they offer! You want to see the real numbers!
if they wanted to stabilize the economy they should start by capping the expansion of new regions. To constantly add new land when theres so much unused space already is certainly going to have a negative effect over all. it devalues all land ! I mean really, You think LA county CA would just like to add new acerage when they need more land? LL needs to start serving the ones who are turning thier profits for them. you catch more flys with sugar!!! ARE WE PAYING ATTENTION YET??????? little peices of skin over ocular muscles can be lifted in upward direction!

Linden Labs is not making a profit yet. Investors hope that they will make a profit someday. That is why they invest.

Employees of Linden Labs are earning a living, but that is not the same thing. Linden Labs can't cut tier prices or new land sales without losing even more money than they do.

The bottom line here is, if you want Linden dollars to go up, you need to do something to attract and keep the new users coming back for more. If they do, eventually they start buying.

So, I'm working on ways to do that, but I'm not all that clever, so it's taking me a while. Suggestions welcome.

Dont think this will work at all. I paid my "premium" membership in advance and there are "lifetime" members. This proposal will render them worthless! Suppose I would just have to join in the class action lawsuit against Linden Labs if this happens.

I know you "anti stipend" people for what you really are. You just want to enrich yourselfs at the expense of others. Now if Lindens labs would compensate us in a different way. Perhaps an increased in the amount of no tier land or not having to pay certain fees.

I am a reasonable resident, I just dont want to lose what was paid for!

Yes. If you were so ignorant you might believe the same.