Philip Linden on Zoning
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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04-20-2005 19:49
From: someone Jeska Linden: Kage Seraph: What's the plan with respect to zoning? Philip Linden: We think zoning is best done by you, Philip Linden: through group ownership, rentals, etc. Philip Linden: We will add more features to support that. Philip Linden: We don't feel like WE should be doing much zoning. Philip Linden: SL is too big... we wouldn't really be able to. There it is, folks. Linden Labs *approves and encourages* rentals.blaze, see, they don't get all kvetchy about their tier cash cow getting interrupted. They understand that enhancing the game leads to more players. Zoning is best done by players.There's a nod for Anshe and Nexus. And for that matter, me, although my "zoning" is voluntary in the purchased areas and not as tightly enforced as some in rentals areas. We will add more features to support that -- Ingrid? Taking notes? It isn't just that I come in here and scream how stuff needs changing and then you can tell me cooly about it being too bad about "land tools not being sufficient to run my business." I articulate known issues with the land tools. These are issues the Lindens are working on. And none other than the CEO himself says WE WILL ADD MORE FEATURES TO SUPPORT THAT.So whatever crippled and cramped and struggling existence I live now, I live and hope LL WILL ADD MORE FEATURES TO SUPPORT THAT.Not doing MUCH zoning means they might do SOME. So it is still worth pushing the envelope and asking if the Lindens can have some zoned sims like they did with Boardman and Brown.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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04-20-2005 21:08
I like Philips stand on it whereby they simply become the land supplier and leave it up to us to create a themed sim.
Although, I would agree that it would be cool to see a few sims 'zoned' for residential or whatever. As an experiment, mind you.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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04-20-2005 21:16
From: Prokofy Neva Ingrid? Taking notes? It isn't just that I come in here and scream how stuff needs changing and then you can tell me cooly about it being too bad about "land tools not being sufficient to run my business." I articulate known issues with the land tools. These are issues the Lindens are working on. I never once said there was no need for more zoning tools... next time you should take note instead of frothing at the mouth every time I disagree with something you've posted. You do spew out a TON of garbage.
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Buster Peel
Spat the dummy.
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,242
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04-20-2005 23:05
From: Prokofy Neva There it is, folks.
Linden Labs *approves and encourages* rentals.
blaze, see, they don't get all kvetchy about their tier cash cow getting interrupted. They understand that enhancing the game leads to more players.
Zoning is best done by players.
There's a nod for Anshe and Nexus. And for that matter, me, although my "zoning" is voluntary in the purchased areas and not as tightly enforced as some in rentals areas.
We will add more features to support that -- Ingrid? Taking notes? It isn't just that I come in here and scream how stuff needs changing and then you can tell me cooly about it being too bad about "land tools not being sufficient to run my business." I articulate known issues with the land tools. These are issues the Lindens are working on.
And none other than the CEO himself says WE WILL ADD MORE FEATURES TO SUPPORT THAT.
So whatever crippled and cramped and struggling existence I live now, I live and hope LL WILL ADD MORE FEATURES TO SUPPORT THAT.Not doing MUCH zoning means they might do SOME. So it is still worth pushing the envelope and asking if the Lindens can have some zoned sims like they did with Boardman and Brown. WAIT a minute. I thought Phillip was a commie bastard who hated rental businesses. Either you've been wrong, or you've shown Phillip the error of his ways. I'm going to start a poll and see what everybody thinks. Buster
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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04-20-2005 23:08
I From: someone never once said there was no need for more zoning tools... next time you should take note instead of frothing at the mouth every time I disagree with something you've posted. You do spew out a TON of garbage. I'm glad you're saying that NOW. What you said yesterday was: 1. an implication that I had something wrong with me and was not "adapting" and "struggling" and "barking up the wrong tree" because I pushed for changes to land tools. 2. an implication that I was clamoring for land tools to change to make my business, work, and if it wouldn't work without those changes, it would fail 3. an implication that clamoring for land tools is unseemingly because all the better people just hang out and don't demand such change 4. an implication that I haven't just figured out how to address challenges like officer recall 5. An implication that I can't or won't understand LIndens statement of intent. A ton of garbage? I don't see it.
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blaze Spinnaker
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Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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04-21-2005 03:41
Well, my concern is what they are going to do in order to avoid disrupting the land market from rentals.
The fact is, right now, Anshe has many sims and she advertises in the land sale tab.
What if she starts thinking of making her money from charging tier and getting clients instead of from the initial land purchase fee?
So far she's been somewhat wise and avoided this. Eventually she'll see that there is a market for people who don't want to pay the upfront fee and would rather just rent. This could really really disrupt the land market.
The question is, though - does LL care? Are they ready to disrupt the land market?
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
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04-21-2005 04:21
Don't sweat it, Ingrid. Some people need to measure their e-penis by the voluminous nature of their posts. Its ok. This too will pass.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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04-21-2005 06:12
From: Prokofy Neva 1. an implication that I had ..... 2. an implication that I was .... 3. an implication that I was clamoring for .... 4. an implication that I haven't just figured out .... A ton of garbage? I don't see it.
Frankly, you can take your implications and stick 'em where the sun don't shine. Don't put words in my mouth. You have a very tenuous grasp of reality and your perspective is completely skewed. Bah, Maxx is right.
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koolhand Koolhaas
Uncensored McGillicuty
Join date: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 996
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04-21-2005 06:17
From: Maxx Monde DThis too will pass. Yes... like a very painful kidney stone. Just seems like it will never end.
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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04-21-2005 06:27
From: someone I thought Phillip was a commie bastard who hated rental businesses. Either you've been wrong, or you've shown Phillip the error of his ways. I'm going to start a poll and see what everybody thinks.
Buster Well, what I'm doing here, Buster, in case you didn't notice, is trying to put a stake in the ground using Phil's quote in part to hold him to it. Because I know that he doesn't really quite get it, and hasn't really yet taken the steps he needs to create a free world based on land value (see my answers to your poll). The proof will be in whether he can create the higher class in the groups of a leader or investor who has more rights because he bought land and pays tier -- an act that will make a tiny minority howl, but howl very loud -- and whether he can get rid of officer recall -- which his own earnest lefty staff is still touting as being about "freedom".
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
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04-21-2005 06:30
From: someone Quote: Originally Posted by Prokofy Neva
1. an implication that I had ..... 2. an implication that I was .... 3. an implication that I was clamoring for .... 4. an implication that I haven't just figured out .... A ton of garbage? I don't see it.
Frankly, you can take your implications and stick 'em where the sun don't shine. Don't put words in my mouth. You have a very tenuous grasp of reality and your perspective is completely skewed.
Bah, Maxx is right. Ingrid, you know what you were trying to do, and you know what you implied. You yourself have said you don't want to run a land group and seek tier donations. I can't imagine why. Timidity? Conservatism? You've got recognition of your leadership to some extent but you don't want to take the next step and be a leader. Fear of failure? Fear of success? So your resentment of me is palpable. You're always out there digging, undermining, kvetching. So I know exactly wht you're doing and called you on it. If all you and Maxx can do now is yammer about e-penises, you're even more ridiculous than I thought.
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
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Prokofy Neva
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Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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04-21-2005 06:33
From: someone Well, my concern is what they are going to do in order to avoid disrupting the land market from rentals.
The fact is, right now, Anshe has many sims and she advertises in the land sale tab.
What if she starts thinking of making her money from charging tier and getting clients instead of from the initial land purchase fee?
So far she's been somewhat wise and avoided this. Eventually she'll see that there is a market for people who don't want to pay the upfront fee and would rather just rent. This could really really disrupt the land market.
The question is, though - does LL care? Are they ready to disrupt the land market? Your zeal to take land rentals or $0 sale land for rent out of the land for sale list is really unseemly, blaze, unless it turns out that I really am seeing some socialism shining through on your threadbare intellectual's suit here. What's wrong with people charging rent? Rent is never going to be as popular as sales. Most people can sell their first land of $512 for $2500-$3500 nowadays, to land traders if no one else, or even for $5120 in a good area. They can take that and buy a 1024 in an OK area and save their stipend. They'd prefer that. Anshe might consolidate to make her rental communities the only thing she does, but I'm betting that she will want to keep her hand in on old-world liquidation and resale, because that is still a fairly lucrative market if you just have the stamina to ride it out. Honestly, should you worry so much about LL's bottom line? Why not just worry bout your own?
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
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04-21-2005 06:37
Someone must've gotten their laundry done early. We can only hope Prok doesn't start hitting the box-wine until after noon, lol.
Ingrid - its prok's specialty to condense 'facts' from vapors of nuance. Doesn't mean they're right, just that the human mind can make a pattern out of nearly anything, including video noise on a dead channel.
It is a amusing to watch, like a hamster in a wheel, spinning like mad, thinking its going to actually get somewhere.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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04-21-2005 06:39
Oh, Maxx.. I think you're the next big ego of SecondLife!!!! I should go let everyone know!!
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
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04-21-2005 06:40
Better help prok fold that laundry first, lol.
And I think prok missed some corners on the kitchen floor, be a dear and swiffer that, won't you?
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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04-21-2005 06:44
From: Prokofy Neva You yourself have said you don't want to run a land group and seek tier donations.I can't imagine why. Timidity? Conservatism?
You've got recognition of your leadership to some extent but you don't want to take the next step and be a leader. Fear of failure? Fear of success? Because I don't want to do what you do. Period. I have no problem with what you do, and I'm happy that people who want to run zoned sims will now have better tools to do it. But it simply doesn't interest me. Making Boardman nice, was an act of creation. I don't want to be a leader, I don't want to be a landlord. I want to make things. From: Prokofy Neva So your resentment of me is palpable. You're always out there digging, undermining, kvetching.
My resentment of you has nothing to do with whatever you do in game. It's much more personal. My resentment of you has EVERYTHING to do with your miserable personality.
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blaze Spinnaker
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Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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04-21-2005 06:52
No way, Maxx.. you're the best!!
So cool, so debonaire.. oh man, I just want to be just like you!!!
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
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04-21-2005 06:56
From: someone Someone must've gotten their laundry done early. We can only hope Prok doesn't start hitting the box-wine until after noon, lol. I don't drink. And my laundry gets done at 5 a.m. before I do one of my jobs, then get my kids to school Your efforts to portray me as some kind of stay-at-home, do-nothing, alcoholic "housewife" are going to founder on reality, Maxx. I'll just keep pointing the facts out to you. What I won't be doing is serving up whatever I know about your RL, of course.
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Rent stalls and walls for $25-$50/week 25-50 prims from Ravenglass Rentals, the mall alternative.
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Prokofy Neva
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Join date: 28 Sep 2004
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04-21-2005 06:59
From: someone My resentment of you has nothing to do with whatever you do in game. It's much more personal. My resentment of you has EVERYTHING to do with your miserable personality. Oh, ok, well then it's just personal, and filled with personal baggage and accidental impressions and prejudices, so why impose it on every intellectual discussion here? If you go back and look at what you wrote to me about not whining about tools not changing, you'll see see that you make sure that each and every post contains a barb or a razor blade in the apple, so that you can have plausible deniability that you were "just talking about zoning" when really what it is, as you've so eloquently expressed here, is that you just resent me and don't like my "miserable personality". So I now see the best thing to do with all your posts and ripostes is to ignore them because you'll be reluctant to be SO aggressive with them that you will alienate yourself from your little FIC community even LOL.
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Maxx Monde
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04-21-2005 07:06
From: blaze Spinnaker No way, Maxx.. you're the best!!
So cool, so debonaire.. oh man, I just want to be just like you!!! A good start would be to drop all the exclamation points. Maybe stop posting every thought that crosses your brain, too. Hope that helps 
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
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04-21-2005 07:09
From: Prokofy Neva I don't drink. And my laundry gets done at 5 a.m. before I do one of my jobs, then get my kids to school
Your efforts to portray me as some kind of stay-at-home, do-nothing, alcoholic "housewife" are going to founder on reality, Maxx.
I'll just keep pointing the facts out to you. What I won't be doing is serving up whatever I know about your RL, of course. Hear that sound? Its your thread being derailed, lol. You really should just plow forward, like a large icebreaker, immune to any logic--- oh wait, you do that already, my mistake. Don't knock booze, jeeze, I hit a nerve, did I? Ok, you only drink the best top-shelf vodka, in a classy highball glass, only at socially acceptable events. How's that?
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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04-21-2005 07:09
From: Prokofy Neva A ton of garbage? I don't see it. This echos strongly of your claims that the FIC can't see that they are FIC.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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04-21-2005 07:13
From: Prokofy Neva Oh, ok, well then it's just personal, and filled with personal baggage and accidental impressions and prejudices, so why impose it on every intellectual discussion here?
If you go back and look at what you wrote to me about not whining about tools not changing, you'll see see that you make sure that each and every post contains a barb or a razor blade in the apple, so that you can have plausible deniability that you were "just talking about zoning" when really what it is, as you've so eloquently expressed here, is that you just resent me and don't like my "miserable personality". So I now see the best thing to do with all your posts and ripostes is to ignore them because you'll be reluctant to be SO aggressive with them that you will alienate yourself from your little FIC community even LOL. Wrong. I agree that the zoning tools are a good thing for SL. I have genuinely disagreeed with most of your posts since you are CONSTANTLY telling people what they should be doing. I hate bullies. And you're a bully. If you don't want barbed remarks from me, tone down your posts, stop the constant complaining about how and what others chose to do on their own land, on their own personal time. You are not liked by many, for good reasons. If you want positive feedback, don't be an ass. It's not rocket science.
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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04-21-2005 07:13
Thanks max!!
Your advice is so very much appreciated!!!
(shivers in anticipation of being just like max)
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
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04-21-2005 07:15
From: blaze Spinnaker Thanks max!!
Your advice is so very much appreciated!!!
(shivers in anticipation of being just like max) See, you really aren't trying at all. Still the same exclamation-point barrage, and you can't even consistently get my name right. You're just all cigarettes and no matches, aren't you blaze.
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