Lindex: 2000 per month limit? Wasn't that 2000 per day before?

Well Schwan, you know this was setup for us casual tourist players

not the real big people we all wannabe

head down, kicks the dirt, nobody likes me...

No kidding. When can I get a secret tier that will allow my scripts to run faster than others?

Please clairify this. Are you saying that the tier changes are just the limits? So instread of the 2kUSD limit per month, you would just up that limit to something else? Or do these changes also effect the fees for buying and selling?

If you are going to allow people to go around the limits, why have them at all. Also, why do I have to tell LL what I want to do with my money and my Linden? I feel you are trying to control the market with these limits, but the people that make the most are excluded from your control because of what they have done for SL.

Not secret.. just not yet published because there are only so many things we can do at once. I had planned to publish this info later next week with the website copy changes related to the anticipated launch of automated PayPal payouts and the new things you will be able to do with the US$ balance on your account. I did not anticipate that people would react so negatively this weekend.

In short here are the tiers that we have setup thus far... we'll configure more tiers, or make adjustments to these tiers as the need arises.

Business Owner Tier 1
Sell: US$20,000/month, US$5,000/day
Buy: US$5,000/month, US$2,000/day

Business Owner Tier 2
Sell: US$40,000/month, US$5,000/day
Buy: US$5,000/month, US$2,000/day

Business Owner Tier 3
Sell: US$60,000/month, US$5,000/day
Buy: US$5,000/month, US$2,000/day

Business Owner Tier 4
Sell: US$80,000/month, US$5,000/day
Buy: US$5,000/month, US$2,000/day


Currency Trader Tier 1
Sell: US$5,000/month, US$5,000/day
Buy: US$5,000/month, US$2,000/day

Currency Trader Tier 2
Sell: US$10,000/month, US$5,000/day
Buy: US$10,000/month, US$2,000/day

Currency Trader Tier 3
Sell: US$15,000/month, US$5,000/day
Buy: US$15,000/month, US$2,000/day

Currency Trader Tier 4
Sell: US$20,000/month, US$5,000/day
Buy: US$20,000/month, US$2,000/day

If the standard tier isn't meeting your needs, just send an email to [EMAIL=exchange_tier@lindenlab.com]exchange_tier@lindenlab.com[/EMAIL] with your Second Life name. We'll review your account ASAP.

All I'm looking for is a track record of successful US$ payments of at least moderate size, and enough LindeX usuage to reasonably expect that your current limits are/may soon hamper you ability to move as much L$ as you desire.

What happens if you don't have a track record with Linden Lab or LindeX? There are plenty of other ways to demostrate an ability to pay and to illustrate how much US$ worth of L$ you might need to move in a 30 day period. This is where the flexibility on our side of things is important. As Second Life grows and we process more special case situations, we'll be able to form guidelines around some of the more common situations.

After we've reviewed more accounts I think we'll be able to set down more definitive criteria, to the extent that we'll be able to at least partially automate the tier upgrade process. Until then, we're doing this manually. If for some reason we decline to bump your tier and you feel that you haven't been treated fairly please contact Philip.

You folks are our valued customers, we appreciate the business you bring to us, without you we wouldn't be here today. These limits aren't intended to exclude anyone, just to help keep our fraud risk low so that we can keep our fees to you as low as possible and our merchant processor happy.

Cheers,
Lawrence

The tiers only change the limits, not the fees.



It's all about fraud risk reduction.



You don't... that's not a factor in our decision making process for LindeX tier adjustments. However, if you want to share that info I bet our marketing team would love to know. Contact me and I'll get you in touch with them.



Sorry you feel that way. These limits are purely about fraud risk reduction. Yes, they may have side effects upon the volume of trade done on the market, but that is not their purpose. We're trying to keep it simple to get into a higher tier, so practically speaking the limits should not have much net impact on the market other than to keep the fees low... which should more than offset any volume loss from sellers who hit their limit but don't want to ask to be bumped into a higher tier. Thus far I've been able to bump everyone who's asked into a higher tier.

Cheers,
Lawrence

Email [EMAIL=exchange_tier@lindenlab.com]exchange_tier@lindenlab.com[/EMAIL].

Please check your in-world IMs.

Cheers,
Lawrence

Well, then just please ask ahead of time.



We're not looking at business models... unless they happen to be "defraud Linden Lab".



If we change our minds then that will be a result of you not honoring your financial commitments to us. In that case our lowering your limits won't have been the cause of your business' failure, but a result thereof.

We can't succeed if you all don't succeed, so we're going to do everything we can to help nurture your success, not impede it.

Cheers,
Lawrence

This is the part that is most questioning. If we are hitting the limits, then why do you need to evaluate bumping people up? If I am not breaking the TOS, why have any limits? If I want to start a new business and all of a sudden I have many more L$ that I want to sell, why do I have to wait to be approved to sell more? I can think of a couple of time sensitive ways that I can come into large amounts of money that I would want to sell quickly. If I have to wait a week to get approved to move up, that could ruin all that I want to do.

This is exactly it.

Answer me this question: what can I do that won't get me permabanned but will get me limited on the lindex?

Well, explaining the new tiers helps.

However, you need to outline more clearly what it is you're filtering out.

Some examples of how it is that we can be limited on the lindex but not permabanned would be nice.

I would presume if I was defrauding SL you'd do a helluva lot more than just keep me off the FIC tier.

Is fraud your only filter?

What do you define as fraud?

If I were to go an say that I was "selling" my land when in fact you think it was just leasing, is that fraud?

Or just differing points of view?

That's exactly what I'm doing here. But I don't particularly want to tip my hand about what I'm going to do, so to speak, because you lindens are pretty fast and loose about co-opting other peoples ideas.

The simple fact is, I personally have no desire to be in a situation whereby I need your blessing to do business. I'll follow the rules, whatever silly ones they might be, but that's as far as I'll go.

Maybe some other folks around here think Lindens are the end all be all and are smart enough to make judgement calls, but I just think of you guys as bunch of slightly above average developers who have been over optimistically bankrolled by benchmark / kapor / pierre and think far too highly of yourselves.

And the more you insert yourself into the process, the more you develop these implicit quid pro quos, the more you antagonize me and demoralize me.

Maybe I'm alone on this, maybe everyone else thinks they don't need to act independently of LL.

Regardless, for those who's goals are their own and don't care to put themselves at the whim of a Lawrence Linden or a whoever, I just want you to know that I'm 100% with you.

For everone else, look to GOM. Look to SLExchange and classifieds.

Who's next?

You're next.

So we can assume your warm-fuzzy feelings about the Lindens have subsided? Lawrence has been extremely forthcoming in this thread, what on earth more do you want, Blaze? You always have the option to use other services.

Hey I have all sorts of options. For example, I am exercising the option to reply to your post. What's your point?

What you don't see here is the compete erosion of freedom.

I am not free in SL if I have to make sure I don't offend Lawrence Linden because he might find some excuse to **** me over and not give me FIC tier.

What kind of freedom is that?

LindenLabs is setting up all these quid pro quos as Prokofy puts it.

You make me happy I'll make you happy. You say good things about me, and I'll send the press your way. You be a good boy and I'll put you on the developer list. You be a proper little business man and I'll give you FIC tier.

They are inserting themselves in the process. Very very few companies do this, and when they, they anger, frustrate, and annoy their potential customers and partners.

Yes, there will always be FIC, I recognize that, but this is extreme FIC.

The limits being put in place in no way inhibit your ability to do "business". You are not obligated to use the LindeX in the first place, and if you do want to use it and go beyond the limits, there are reasonable options available to do so. I guess i don't see what your complaint is about it.

Yeah and you might piss of Phillip Linden and have your account shitcanned as well - you are dealing with a private company, and it is their service to dictate as they choose. If you did manage to piss of Lawrence and you were denied to get into whatever tier you wanted to be in, it no way precludes you from going to any other site and selling your L$. I haven't stopped using IGE simply because of the Lindex - at the end of the day, it still pays more when all is said and done. I don't think the limits they are putting in place are unreasonable at all. They have liabilities to protect themselves from as well, or are they supposed to assume all the risk?

Cristiano, you are well aware they can put a stop to any L$ transaction they want to.

Didn't they shut down an IGE account?

Haven't you read the latest updates to the TOS?

Oh, but you're going to argue, they wouldn't do THAT they wouldn't make it PERSONAL.

Then why do I have to IM Lawrence Linden to get on the FIC tier? That's pretty personal!

Yes, they certainly can put a stop to any L$ transaction they want to - they also can take away your account at will. I am not being naieve - I am just not seeing what your complaint is. If you are not doing something in the first place to put your account at risk, I am not sure what you are so worried about. Are you just worried that your disparaigning remarks about LL are going to cause you not to be in some specialized sales tier?

Ok think about this logically just for a moment, free of all conspiracy. They have put limits in place to protect against fraud and liability. They are willing to waive those limits on accounts that have a proven record of stability of sales and a clean history. In order for that to happen, your account history does have to be reviewed. How is that unreasonable? I don't like the fucking pathetic TOS more than you do, I just don't see the issue you are trying to make here.

Absolutely!

But the point is, their reasons are no longer rational and objective, they're all about sending an email to lawrence linden and getting his blessing.

That's not a way to run a company.

Ok, how would you propose they do it? It seems reasonable to me, you just seem to have issue with the fact that you have to contact someone to have the limits removed.

Ok, what does that mean?

What if I was marketing my land as SALES and not LEASING for a private island?

Would that preclude me?

Clearly LL doesn't like it when people say their SELLING land, because they're not. (Which, I agree, they aren't, but now mere language can get you off the FIC tier?)

I don't know their exact criteria, or how they would determine that. I would imagine if your account has a bunch of TOS violations, and no discernable source of income or L$ trading history, you probably would not be elligible. I don't understand exactly the hair you are splitting on the land thing either. Is there an L$ income involved?

Where is the information on the "currency trader or business owner tiers"? Huh? Why is so damn much of LL run in the background, only to a select few?