Billboards out of hand

that's wierd i believe you. i have noticed that some places show up in some searches that seem like they should catch them, and others searches don't catch them. and it's not always consistent.

if you search on "gom" sometimes you get two gom financial sites, and sometimes only one.

(fyi, "tiger lily" works for me to find it.)

my list so far:
- making the search feature work better
- make the land description text box bigger
- "and" "or" "not" and "like" searches
- more sorting than name and traffic

Different world cultures have different values, StoneSelf. Some value the community or collective over the individual. Some value the individual over the collective. There is a sliding scale of those values and lots of mixes and maxes. You can aggressively defend one or the other point on that scale as "what I like to call the RIGHT way" in an arrogant manner, but you'll just be revealing yourself as as articulating whatever set of cultural predispositions you happened to inherit. In an international game, it pays to be aware of these differences, explore them, report on them, debate them. They aren't set in stone, even in the countries where they originate.

Who is the arbiter of information? One man's information is another man's spam. Hence the infomercial. Who is to be the judge of whether a billboard has "disinformation" on it? Of course, you'd like to think your business is the good and pure one with the tasteful ad filled with accurate information, but the next guy's ad is ugly spam with disinformation in it. That's why you need to have an open space with an equal playing field on it, and not just one group yammering endless about how we can't have ads. If you hate the ugliness of ads, then try to isolate that out from ads themselves.

I'm assuming that you're able to grasp that any position that says "my group's ads are ok and yours rot" just isn't going to fly as a fair position. So think through what you mean by "ugly".

Let's say if we agree that ads can't go up 256 meters from a home, or whatever space makes sense. Or let's say we'll have a Better Business Bureau and we'll take complaints about any "disinformation".

MORE CAPACITY FOR ADVERTISING. GOOD DRIVES OUT BAD. MORE FREEDOM.
MORE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION. BETTER PRODUCTS. BETTER LIVING.

yes a debate on these things would be a good thing.

however, you tend to 1) tell people what they are thinking/saying as seen from you biased world view, 2) then say that those world views that aren't in line with yours are denigrating your position, and 3) you make snide offensive comments constantly.

none of that contributes to debate.

i've been trying to keep the topic on bill boards and advertising, but you've been sniping at me and making insulting innuendo.

i pay to be in sl. i appreciate that there are businesses in sl, and thus a demand for advertising. i just hope that demand is meet without creating a situation like the web where there are banner ads everywhere, popups, commercials masquerading as authorative information sources, and spammy-badness everywhere.

i have video tapes and dvds that have commercials in them. i buy these things to avoid the 15 minutes of captive audience commericals at movies, but they follow me. i come to sl to have fun... not to be advertised at. if i want something, i use the find feature.

Um, does it occur to you *at all* that's what YOU do? lol. Honestly, is there any capacity for self-reflection on these forums???

You can't slide away from a statement like "Why benefit a few business avatars?" which is loaded with sarcasm, dripping with contempt, and filled with perjorative connotation. That's all there is to it. It's a snide comment, and one oh-so-typical of these forums.

Indeed you *are* denigrating any position that is for billboards as being "tacky" or "greedy" or "grasping and commercial" or whatever perjorative connotations you have of this type of business you don't like.



Um, you've been writing billboard messages of your own in all-bold, to try to best the argument. You can't see that what you do is all sniping FIRST. That *incites* the kind of response you get.



Well, now you are making sense. But the zeal to stop popups and penis ads, while admirable, is a killer here because it's led to a situation where we have little capacity for advertising beyond this very, very hobbled FINDPLACES system. I don't want spam and popups all the time, but in fact, I honestly don't mind opening my inbox every day here and finding the odd club or mall advert. It's in my RL mail too and I dn't mind it. Some certain percentage of it I might take a second look at, the rest I just throw out.

Given that you can very easily press the delete key on all this stuff, I just don't get the hatred and venom about it.



Well not everyone is like you? Some people like selling and buying and finding stuff through ads. It's ok. There isn't the attitude toward it that it is impure or even evil.

obsurd, the whole idea of SL is people making their virtual world, and the entire game is built around commerce and a capatalistic society. What business can survive without advertising? I don't want to see billboards everywhere, there must be some regulations, LL has a way to report abuse, i think that they could count an obtrusive advertisement an abuse of the system. Also, if someone builds something next to you, you do have options, you could move, buy the land from them, or ask them politely to stop their activities. I have noticed that most people in SL are very receptive to feedback and concerns.

Ultimately the responsibility is on the advertising agency, I just recently built a casino and i made sure that the neighbors were ok with it and i kept my height to a minimum with no outside lights or advertising. So far everyone loves my place.

Another way to fix this is offer the residents in a sim the ability to vote for "laws" or "ordanaces". I think this could offer a huge advantage to a lot of people. You could limit light polution, sign placements, structure heights, and build areas. I think that this might get out of control in some areas, but if you had residents with more land carry a stronger vote then it might not be so bad.

hmm... is it? i'm not sure.i agree most people are reasonable.i'm not sure the whole "responsibility is on the advertising agency" thing works in the long term. people have already tried sleazy ad campaigns in sl. and if the web is any indication... unscrupulous people will abuse a laisse faire system. not that i have any idea how a good regulatory system would work.this has big problems. i point you to the polisci forum for some of those problem.

personally, i think the enforced geography of sl is a problem... that is to say, being locked in place. maybe if people could own land and make it adjacent to whoever they wanted, this would solve the "ugly neighbor" problem. at the moment, only people who are willing to buy a sim can do this. it would be nice if smaller landholders could determine the shape and location of their land in the grid - instead of being stuck with where ll put their land. it is virtual space... the geography doesn't need to be limited to fixed locality of the real world... hm... a whole other topic.

I'm not saying that I want NO advertising in SL. Just that you should keep your advertising locally to your store. Nobody is going to see a random billboard 30 sims away and think, "Hey, I better go over there because this sign says it. There's a shop right in front of me with the same goods, but this one has a billboard it must be better!" It's just not logical. Advertise your wares locally. There have been many people out there who actually supplement their income using linden dollars that they're able to make. Most of these are people who have been in SL awhile and have never used any other form of advertising than the word of mouth approach. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get.

Maybe someone who owns land near your store with see your billboard that's near your store and visit it. You'll get some sales then. Then if that person overhears someone talking about looking for what your store offers, then that person may speak up on your behalf. Suddenly you've gained another sale, plus possibly even more word of mouth.

Localize your billboard advertising is what I'm asking. Advertise, but not intrude. People aren't looking at the big picture. If you're putting a large billboard in front of my store, then you're encroaching on my sales. That's real money that you're attempting to remove from my pocket. It's a shame that sales have come to getting this cutthroat.

Why aren't you making sales as much as you used to? That's easy... Market saturation. There's so many of the same types of stores anymore that it's nearly impossible for someone else to find something extremely similar to what you've created, but cheaper.

Just localize your advertising for your store withing a 2-3 sim radius and it'll work to your advantage. Try getting that land close a telehub for advertising. Honestly, I fly so fast through the air that I don't texture half of what there is, so I don't even see them as I'm flying around. But this is what you all want.

Good locations for billboards would've been when SL was full of full swing clubs. But with the event listing restrictions most clubs I've seen have been holding 10-15 avatars in them.

i was wondering why peopple were making billboards... why not make a two prim vendor instead?

Now that is a very good idea that I would get behind.

It would probably alleviate some of the complaint load about other people's buidings.

It would allow for zoning to occur over time as people of like minds coalesce.

Yeah I knew that someone would say that it "worked for them" but I SWEAR it just doesn't sometimes.

And more often than it *does* work too.

I did that Tiger Lily search (character for character) several times and it was the same each time, never found it.

I got really frustrated trying to get there until I finally realised I should just make a landmark to the place.

Gee, youd have to fit them together.
Turn the whole thing into a giant game of Tringo.

Tons of people would cheer for that !

wouldn't they be annoyed when the land went poof so they could score points?

tringo made me think of website that use games to attract people to their websites so people will look at banner ads. other'n thatn having events (tringo, slingo, build contest) to showcase items... are people using things like free standing games to attract people to places where where they will be exposed to advertisements?

Totally agree with you although I think you are being too kind towards Metaadverse. Regardless of height, having billboards plopped in the middle of a waterway is bad business.

You're so right, billboards are getting out of hand, especially at telehubs. If SL looks cheap and tacky it's not going to attract new people as easily. It's especially not going to attract people used to living in lovely upscale areas. This demographic group is more likely to buy large plots of land for estates and not worry about paying a large tier bill.

I think having more island sims is the best answer. The island sim landowner can include a rule that advertising has to be inside your store or your house if you sell things there. If people don't like that rule they just don't lease there. I don't think LL should be trying to enforce some kind of rule like that on the mainland. It's much better to give us the means to avoid the big concentrations of tacky garish signs at telehubs.

Please give us point to point teleporting so people who want to avoid ugly telehubs can do so, but people who don't mind all those signs can keep using telehubs if they want to.

As a Marketing Consultant in RL I must disagree with you...seeing a billboard doesnt make you thing 'there & then' "Hey, I better go over there because this sign says it. There's a shop right in front of me with the same goods, but this one has a billboard it must be better!" no more than watching an advert on TV for a mars bar will make you dash out and buy one. But it DOES leave a logo or brand recognition inprint in your mind conciously & sub consiously.
Brand recognition is VERY powerful and the more we see the same logo or brand (even whe we dont need it or want it at the times we see the adverts ) the more it 'sticks'

Why does Mars ( I use this as an example ) use the same font and color on their adverts?
I saw an advert recently written in the Mars font and colors didnt even USE the word 'Mars Bar' but i know at a glance what chocolate bar that bill board was advertising.

Advertising isnt about making you buy there and then..its about making your company stand out in ppls memory from the rest so when you DO want to purchase some-thing related...its the 1st thing that pops into your head from all the previous exposure.

Thats it really...lol

I am a sad woman who can discuss the phsycology behind advertising for hours! ( makes note to get a life!)

I agree. Marketing is part and parcel to doing buisness. Those who succeed at marketing have a much greater chance of succeeding as a buisness.

I may be misinterpreting some folks here - but it seems that 'Advertising' in general is being broadly painted with the 'Spam' brush. I suppose this is a philosophical discussion - but I don't see all advertisements as Spam.

For example - when I hop on the subway, and I see ads in the train for Dove Shampoo - I don't think spam. When I'm watching Family Guy, and a commercial comes on for Orbitz Travel - I don't think spam.

However - when a telemarketer calls me at home - I think spam. When I receive an "Ad-icle" from Motley Fool (that I signed up for) in my work email - I think spam. And of course, any email with the words Viagra, Cialis, or Mortgage - automatically becomes spam to me. Strangely, ads imbedded in a website like CNN - i don't think of as spam - but if you pop up a new window at me - I do think of it as spam.

I think what differentiates 'advertising' from 'spam' - is that advertising appears in public places, while 'Spam' appears in personal spaces. That's the difference - to me at least.

Dont you think in public places where you cant even see the ground and sometimes not even the sky that advertising could be viewed as spam? To me going to a telehub and having my entire screen filled up with Ads is no different than my inbox being filled up with spam/junk email.

Although they both end up on your computer screen, the difference is that your inbox is your "private property," whereas the territory surrounding a telehub location is usually not.

Yes.

ALL advertising (RL or SL) is spam in that it is essentially an unwanted, unasked for message that is being forced on your senses. Spam also traditionaly has an aspect of "user pay" about it where you as the reciever of the unwanted message has to pay something to recieve it. (How is this fair again?) In the case of the billboards you pay by having less of a view, an uglier view, or the hit on the server to res the scripts and the sign.

All RL cities usually have a billboard control law, I see nothing wrong with SL having one.

Personally I think the billboard industry is in it's first giant "bubble" stage, and due for a collapse. (sorry I guess I meant an "economic correction".

Also I dont see the difference with Meta-Adverse. I dont care what metas business plan is, all i see when i see their billboards is the ad on the board. Mostly they are crap ads for horrible places like all the rest of the billboards and nothing I want to look at.

There are billboards in the woods in sims where three people a day walk by.
???

I have a suggestion if we are going to have billboards though...

Lots of people like myself have had to buy guns in SL to protect themselves, but you cant shoot them off. How about making billboards (the traditional roadside targets) fair game for shooting?

They could even be scripted to recieve "holes" and we could find out what the average citizen *really* thinks about a particular bulletin board in their neighborhood.

It depends, I suppose. There can always be too much of anything - and I'd like to think that it would regulate itself. If a single advertiser littered our world with ads, I'd think there would be a backlash against that advertiser - thus making the advertiser pull back. An effective marketing campaign takes the target audience into account, and uses whatever means are effective for that audience. If you're part of that target market, and you're offended - the advertiser is doing something wrong.

Telehubs are crowded places, for sure. But I have yet to see one where I actually can't see the ground or sky strictly because of Ads. I don't fly around much however, so its not something I can speak as an authority on.

Again - this is somewhat of a philosophical discussion - those who are against all forms of advertising have that right - just as I have the right to believe that it can be useful if used appropriately. Neither of us will probably convince the other of the opposing view - nor should we.

My hope is that our cumulative opposing views breeds centrism, which is a good thing IMHO

I think some have failed to consider that billboards can help save money. Some of my small comercial properties I rent out have Metadverse billboards. The revenue that they generate are considered when setting up a rental price. It does save the renter some money. I do agree in there should be more standards or rules though with Metadverse signs they do have many rules in place but not too sure how well it's enforced.

I have a bunch of billboards around and whenever asked by a resident, I've done my best to make it work and not look tacky. Most of mine are in logical locations, along roadsides, or in flight paths. The last thing I want to do is "yuck up" SL with them. So as I've said before, if you have any problems with SLBoutique.com billboards (within reason) - let me know!

Besides, I think ours are pretty SEXY.

-Flip