WHOA!!! Why do you want to destroy your money?! PLEASE SPEND IT!! (Starving artist)

Hi, Duke!

For those of you who are not aware, group three exists. In fact, there is a group four as well: the poor who are willing to refuse welfare in the form of stipends in order to make the economy better.

Not everyone that is intent on "burning" their stipend is wealthy within SL--or RL. I have not yet earned a single Linden because my shop has yet to open--it will in 2-3 weeks after it is finished and my designs are ready. From a business standpoint, I'm in the red. I don't have excess Lindens to burn.

Why, then, am I spearheading the volunteer opting out of stipends? Because of your point below:



If you read my first post in your thread (/130/02/109688/1.html#post1059505), especially the links I provided, you would see that we have no problem with people who truly need their stipends to keep them. We are not calling for an end to all stipends.

This not an us versus them, black and white issue. We just want the money supply to come into balance so that what you talk about above will not continue to occur.

We want a healthy economy too. If we were to give or spend our stipends in world, it would not help address the money supply since those Lindens would stay in circulation.

I will still spend Lindens in world--and have and continue to do so. But I will buy them on the Lindex with money I earn in RL.

This is a difficult issue. I realize that most of us, no matter which side of many we are on, want the same thing--a healthier economy so that SL will continue and prosper.

this statement is my problem i don't think its fair to expect players to do this not when they pay for the land they own in real usd and for a premium account they are already paying linden labs 10-15 a month but the average i see around is 25 a month for land and premium then i have to add money for play money its just to much real world money for a single gaming experience. SL is good but its not worth 40-50 bucks a month to play which is probably the number we are looking at if the "free money" is removed

It is worth $40 to $50 a month to play if you can set up a business that can make you that $40 to $50 a month back, though. But that's harder to do with the $L loosing value.

Perhaps basic stipends should be tied to income: You only get the stipend if you were given/paid under L$50 in the preceeding week.

I wonder if there's an easy way to do that.

Musuko.

I dont play for profit I play for fun and so do most of my friends. I have no intention of worrying if I am going to make enough lindens to sell on the market to keep me from paying through the nose to play a game. If I dont feel like making something this week in a game I wont and if I want to spend the entire week shooting pixel ducks or flying a pretend helicopter across the grid and not earning money that is what I will do. Its supposed to be fun worrying about generating 40 usd to cover my credit card debt is very unfun!

"if I want to spend the entire week shooting pixel ducks or flying a pretend helicopter across the grid and not earning money that is what I will do."

Someone had to spend a lot of time, effort and skill to make that helicopter and those ducks. Should they have to pay for your enjoyment (land rental costs, upload fees, time...yes, time is money) and give the items to you for free, or should you pay for them, seeing as you're the one enjoying them?

Like it or not, your enjoyment in Second Life depends heavily on the hard work of others. And if those others end up having to pay for the privilage of providing you with enjoyment, many of them will stop.

It's all well and good saying "they should do it for the joy of creating", but consumers on Second Life are NOT deserving of charity and should pay their own way. The people who deserve charity are the ones who can't afford real food, not those who can't afford virtual toys.

Musuko.

yeah and i bought the stuff with my stipend ... which everyone is so damned hell bent to remove that guy would not have sold a helipopter to me if i had not had that stipend..

as for the content i create content too i dont think its "work" i enjoy it i do it because its fun or i would not do that either..

at this point in time about the only thing i haven't created is a helicopter but i am getting there fast i dont have to buy his stuff but i did. He would make no money if i had none to spend and the only thing is that i woud be spending maybe 3 weeks longer building my own helicopter or hot air baloon which i am presently working on to replace the frivoulous buy i made

Are you running on the assumption that everyone playing this game is wealthy or something ? Your attitude towards players in this game is rather well not heartwarming in fact looks to me like you hate me because i dare to claim a stipend all i can say is WOW i will make sure not to spend my stipend on your stuff and go to your competitors which are numerous and plentiful and varied and just as talented as you are...


You also make it sound like people are slaves to content providers far from it. Everyone that buys from you you should be thanking because they don't have to! I know i thank my customers how about you?

"that guy would not have sold a helipopter to me if i had not had that stipend.."

YOU didn't buy that helicopter. Lindenlabs gave you the money for it. Lindenlabs bought it for you.

"Are you running on the assumption that everyone playing this game is wealthy or something ?"

Let me make this perfectly clear:

IN A WORLD WHERE OVER ONE BILLION PEOPLE...YES, ONE BILLION...HAVE NO ACCESS TO FRESH WATER, ANYONE WHO HAS THE MONEY, LITERACY, TECHNOLOGY, FREE TIME AND RESOURCES REQUIRED TO PLAY AN ONLINE GAME IS FABULOUSLY WEALTHY.

I'm sure there are children in Botswana positively WEEPING over the dire poverty of Second Life players.

"I know i thank my customers how about you?"

Do you give your products away for free? I would like a free copy of each of your products please. After all, you don't do it for the money.

Musuko.

This dialog here has made absolutely clear the essential problem that's driving these threads and is going to drive the L$ economy for a long while. Which is this: content creators see SL as a range of different businesses, each of which separately does work and separately gets paid for it.

Consumers, on the other hand, are far more likely to see SL the same way they see most other forms of entertainment - as a black box, where money goes in, and enjoyment comes out. They don't really care what is in the box, they only care what kind of deal they get at converting money to enjoyment; if it's too low a value then they'll go put their money in a different box. How the box works isn't their problem.

Yes, someone had to spend a lot of time, effort, and skill to make that helicopter and those ducks. But someone had to spend a lot of time, effort and skill designing the cities and models in World Of Warcraft or Guild Wars or Sims Online or whichever other online system you want to compare to. And those get provided to the consumer for a single subscription fee which gets them (eventual) access to all the content in the world. Guild Wars doesn't even ask for that subscription. All the people who made content for those games seem to be happy with the reward they are getting for it. As a consumer, how is it my problem that SL uses a (compared to other games) weird commerce model? If other games can afford to hire huge teams of professionals for a $9.99 a month subscription for everyone, isn't it SL's fault if it couldn't adequately reward its creators given the same income, especially given that not every SL creator is a professional?



The question is not whether they are deserving of charity, the question is whether they need it in order to stay around. In a world where everyone who died, no matter how, was guaranteed to go to heaven and it was guaranteed to be a perfect and wonderful heaven for them, is it so unreasonable to suggest that you'd have to pay those nearer the bottom end of society not to kill themselves?

You don't, but you're not everyone. A lot of people here keep posting that they don't have businesses, or don't buy/sell on Lindex, so this doesn't affect them in any way. That's fine, but this does affect others, besides you, quite a bit. Just because you and many others are not affected, doesn't mean no one else is suffering.




Are you? Because when people say "Don't worry about the $L decline," or "I don't use Lindex," or "People who sell $L for $USD are greedy," apparently assume that the people who spend time and money to produce content are wealthy enough to be able to throw their time and money away, too.

your trying to bring real world politics into a game that people buy to escape it sorry but your logic doens't hold

your also looking like a person who has real hatred which i don't like to see in a game and trying to drive a conversation about a gaming platform towards real world hunger etc etc

bottom line that guy wants his stuff to sell he sold it but only because someone had the money to buy it that money came from linden labs your right NOT FROM YOU we are not making your poor or starving you we are not taking bread from your mouth but that guy would not be in business if it wasn't for consumers and you want to and are with your words putting them down

have you played any other onlien games where economy collapsed? i have the economy collapses when people stop doing one of two things buying or creating usually though the the first BUYING that causes people to stop creating no the craetors as creators become creators in the game because its what they like to do

i'm sorry for you that you try to treat this game like a home business it simply isn't your trying to profit from a fake market bolstered and driven buy only one type of money generation which is from the sale of content. This economy simply wont ever work

the land is content the toys are content and there is a tiny population all trying to buy and sell it at the same rate

anyhow your telling me about starving children in third wolrd countries as some excuse for linden labs a wealthy NOT third world company giving a stripend which is required to stimulate buy (and selling as yes i spend a lot of money on uploads of sounds, textures and stuff)

your talking about begrudging people FAKE money on the basis that its somehow hurting you

you just proved my point thanks for that

the starving children tangent was a nice touch but it doesn't apply here sorry.

So here it is again that guy built helicopters and put them up for sale AND WANTED TO SELL THEM he sold one TO ME for 400 lindens only because i had the lindens. There are no jobs in second life unless you want to sit in a club 24/7 (also not my idea of fun) so my money comes from my premium account stipend for the most part. If i had not had the money that guy would not have made a sale and would STOP selling helicopters and eventualy get rid of his land and possibly leave the game because he LIKES to make them and sell them that is HIS fun

get it yet or is it to hard to understand.

your tunnel vision for a market that isn't ever going to work properly will be the death of this game and cause a loss of subscribers especially new players like me who are looking to buy content because we dont have it yet. THE DRIVING source of this economy is new players in this game and every game without them the game would stagnate and people would stop selling. I won't buy land for ever i buy it now because i need it. I bought some items because i could afford them. If i coult not find a way to survive and thrive in this game i would not have gone past the trial perion and my account would not exist

This is from a newbie who is telling you why they stayed in this game and why they did not leave

oh and by the way i find your attitude towards us newbies horrible and rude

the pattern of decline of value of currency is not unlike any other game i have played it happens markets get flooded people insist on buying yet more currency to keep up and its a vicious circle

guess what i dno't buy currency because of this i have seen it too many times also the lindex is not a real lindex its not backed up by gold or anything else that is truly tangeable and if i hear the usd as backing it up i am gonna barf

its fake money generated by a computer for the purpose of creating a fake currency in an online community made of pixels that can go poof in any second

you dont own a thing linden labs does its their we pay to play on their server they need us and we need them and that is where it stops

you dont think new players are hurting i think they hurt a lot i know i do and am about to dump some land as a result of it because i can't earn money well in this game due to the way its structured. I still don't see how removing something that was put in place to bolster an economy is going to help.

Its not charity i paid for it as part of my subscription. there are no welfare cases in this game when it comes to that.

and again i will honestly state that the only ones who should be profiting real world from this game is in fact linden labs if people would stop cashing out their lindens and walking away to the bank and pay their server fees everything would be fine. So here is a thought instead of trying to ruin a game further and stifle the consumer driven economy more by removing the small amount of money people are in fact paying for with a subscription fee

why dont you just pay your server fees and stop trying to get into the black with this game and bring home a real world profit that's a start

dump what you cannot afford in real world for land pear it down to a normal size that is manageable and play it as a game

We're all quite aware of this circle, and it's why we want to prevent it from happening by cutting off or slowing the supply of this "flooding" of new $L



USD is not backed by anything at all, either. Hasn't been backed by gold since some time in the 1930's. And people mostly buy currency to spend right away on content. Only business people, land owners, and investors are hurt by the $L decline, since they do keep their large sums of money that they made in-world for some period of time. However, those people are also the people who are providing the freebies such as yourself with all the fun stuff you get to do in SL.



Just like the $US dollar, which is a fake currency, backed up by nothing, majority of which is generated by and existing in computers, that can go poof at any second (if US government falls, the dollar falls. Nothing to back it up).



I think freebies loosing their stippend is a bad thing. I also think that you not being able to come up with any $L to keep playing is kinda your problem that's very easily remedied. Either buy $L on Lindex, ask someone else for money, or build someting people will pay money for. How much did that $50l a week pay for, anyway? And how much will that $50l, or even $500l, pay fr once content creators are forced to raise their prices just to be able to afford to continue playing in SL?



And almost no one would bother buying servers/islands/land. Then almost no one would have places to sell content, and also LL wouldn't be able to kep up their profits, being forced to shut down more and more sims. Where and whith what will you play then?




Cause people don't have an extra $300 to $900 a month to throw away for your enjoyment? It's not a game without content, or land, or people having incentives to be creative. It's just a flat piece of land full of crappy made freebies.

P.S. If I were to give you $10USD worth of $Linden, would you be able to buy a keyboard with working . and , keys? It's a little hard following your posts.

love it when people use this as an excuse it means they are running out of arguments sorry i have a keyboard but i also have numb hands and fingers so its as good as its gonna get

also has absolutely nothing to do with the subject

which is about starving artists of which i am one of and this stipend burning movement does not speak for me and many many others and i want LL to know that mainly..

anyhow i'm getting off the boards because i'm finding them a bit too fanatical for me and they are ruining my enjoyment of a game

Hope your hands get better (if they can) and sorry about the comment. Not everyone in the world is as abled as most. It's just that I've ran into way too many people who don't know what they are talking about, yet claim authority on subjects, while not even having a grasp of correct spelling/grammar. Just a pet peeve of mine, and I apologize.
However you never adressed any of my other replies. I'm a bit of a starving artist, too, btw. The small fortune I have in SL was made with a combination of buying $L on Lindex with my own earned money, as well as with the work I have done within SL. This issue of the $L devaluation happens to hurt me directly, since if it does not stop, it will be harder and harder for me to keep my money at the same worth as it is now, meaning I will start loosing it, and it will directly affect things iRL for me. Same applies for many other people in SL. Many are starving artists who are breaking even with their businesses in SL, selling their own artistic creations. If the $L drops, they will start loosing money, and beng starving artists already, they won't be able to afford to keep their creations in the game.

i simply think that things will in fact become worse as these little bonuses are cut. I don't think they hurt the economy i know that when people get their little allowance they go out and spend it which is always healthy for an economy

as for the backing up currency i'm not american and our currency is still backed by gold to some degree. The point i was trying to make is that all of this is not real and all the hard work will disappear when the servers get shut off. All the content is very cheap to create once you upload your textures or sounds etc there is not a lot of cost in creating it. Its cheap to make and almost all profit to sell. Its not like the real world where there are all kinds of expenses etc.

people are trying to apply to many real world principles to an economy that is not complete in structure and never will be because its far too limited


I think one of the largest things to hurt it is in fact the absence of jobs of some sort which would have to be generated by linden labs i think so that the pure consumer can earn a wage.


Another thing that is hurting the economy is way you can so easily get lindens via the exchange or the ingame buy button.


In any event i need my stipend i use it to do uploads and buy a little toy for myself once and awhile (its a game i have fun)


LL is simply going up the same path every other company that has done this in the past has done and hurting consumers to generate a quick fix instead of dealing with the real issues to provide a long term solution

It wont work in fact it will just be a drop in the bucket and only make it so that i can't buy anything.

just adding this afterwards. Actualy to create in this game the only thing i need to worry about is uploads. I need no factory or tools just the interface provided by LL. Code is free to write (aside from the fact you have to pay at least a basic membership to use it in the game its totally cost free really only time is needed to create it) . Land for me anyhow is almost a non necessity. I own it because its fun just like the ducks and the helicopter. I can still create content and even sell it without any land and that is the largest money sink in this game. Not owning land hurts LL though. So i can afford to keep my creations for the next year at least because i bought a 1 year subscription and they all fit neatly in my inventory.

As a consumer however I have a problem I need to earn money some way to buy things.


When i create something large even now I have to go to a large sandbox so what does land get me? a place to much around in really.

I do believe a small bit of spending money, at least to get people into buying stuff (but not enough to pay for everything) is good. It's just that too much of a good thing is usually rather bad.



Where are you from if I may ask? Just curious.
In regards to SL shutting off servers, that's a scarry possibility, but doubt one that LL would consider, especially since other real world corporations have invested millions in them, and because in their TOS they state that people's content is copyrighted to them. I.E. if LL shut down SL, I could sue them to retrieve the value of the work I have created in SL.
As for not having expenses, people still pay either tier, or they rent from someone else who pays tier. That's essentially the only cost of running business, aside from personal time invested (and time IS money), and the money invested in buying vendors and such. As I said in another forum, land in SL is the RL equivalent of a factory and a sales floor.




That is true, but, hey, we're trying And the limits are expanding, too. We even have banks and stock exchanges now. Who would've ever predicted that a year or two ago?




One of the things I have noticed in SL is, like with the real world, people are starting to group up on builds and scripts. Whereas back in the DOS days you used to have one person write a program, and that one person would be responsible for the sale, upkeep and profits off that single program, now we have large groups building large complicated software, since more people can do more than one person. Same thing is slowly happening in SL, where there are teams of people writing scripts and building content. Give it time. I am sure eventually certain groups will start looking for outside help and will start hiring people just to be able to compete on the market *coughginkotechcoughluskwoodcoughotherscough*




How is that hurting the economy? You'll have to elaborate a bit.



I agree, a little stippend for freebies for uploads and toys should've been left in. Premiums I think need to be restructured. It's cheaper to buy $L on Lindex, anyway, so in a way they're getting a bit ripped off, especially if they don't own any land. If you are a premium and are paying $10US a month without owning land, you're better off just using that money to buy $L directly off Lindex. I also think that the land tier fees should be dropped a bit, too. $10US is a bit more than what I'm willing to spend on a 512sqm parcel.

Copyright only relates to the right to make copies. LL are certainly not required by copyright to store or host your work for any period of time.



This can be a good thing, but the only problem is:

a) the skills that the group "jobs" require are exactly the same as the skills used for making stuff normally, and
b) the groups will only hire so many people and anyone not in a group may find themselves unable to compete with the groups.

How Cartel laws start working when a single person can have the production power of a company with several large factories is an interesting question

Hmm, you're right. There' still a question of whether businesses, investments, and land in game has any value though. Considering real money involved, they probably do. I'm sure I am not the only person out there who is waiting for the first ever law suit disputing the worth of virtual reality land to hit the courts, and I think SL will be the first of the MMORPGs to get into courts for this. Till then I guess we just won't know.




Hopefully group produced content will outweight individually produced items in terms of quality (however, Microsoft v.s. Linux is an example of that not always being the case). And yeah, it'll be interesting to see if things turn into freebies slaving for hours at McPrimburger, or getting jobs running around bashing other less off AVs on the knee caps with prim bats

"isn't it SL's fault if it couldn't adequately reward its creators given the same income, especially given that not every SL creator is a professional?"

Let us compare:

Other games:

1: company charges players a set fee.
2: company hands the money from the fees to the content creators.

Second Life:

1: players pay the content creators directly if they want to use that content.

LindenLabs don't need to pay the content creators. The money comes from YOU, the resident, anyway.

Would you rather be forced to pay per month to play SL?

"your trying to bring real world politics into a game that people buy to escape it sorry but your logic doens't hold"

On the contrary; my logic is very secure. I am pointing out the total lack of perspective shown by the "poor" players of SL.

"giving a stripend which is required to stimulate buy"

To stimulate buy?

The SL economy doesn't need continuing stimulation. The economy is now mature and can tick along on its own. There is no NEED for LindenLabs to bribe people into the game any more. The virtues of the game can do that.

You wouldn't be attracted to SL if it weren't for the free L$50? Doesn't that suggest that you more than anyone are in it for the money?

"so my money comes from my premium account stipend for the most part."

And that stipend money comes from the real life money you paid into the game for your premium account...OH LOOK! THE SOLUTION! PEOPLE WHO AREN'T ABLE TO EARN MONEY IN GAME CAN EARN IT IN RL AND TRANSFER IT OVER, JUST LIKE YOU DO!

My word! Who'd have thunk it!

There are NO players on SL who cannot afford to buy Lindens; only ones unwilling to do so.

"oh and by the way i find your attitude towards us newbies horrible and rude"

Forgive me. I don't tend to treat people with much respect when they act like selfish, whiny morons with a collosal sense of entitlement. This is because they don't deserve any.

Musuko.

okay well if the economy is suffereing because of all the new lindens the largest cause of that is people using that buy button ingame when they want to buy content not the weekly stipend hence its hurting the economy more because its completely uncontrolled.


Also removing to much money from the economy by selling it and taking it to buy a new xbox or whatever is also going to have such an effect


$10 usd monthly is stilll a lower subscription rate and on par with other games the usual subscription rate to do far less is 15 bucks a month so i think that their 10 a month fee for the first 512 of land plus 500 in spending money plus the ability to actually own land is fair.


buying money off the lindex plus paying for a premium membership and paying land fees however is a bit much which is why i think people should not expect others to do this.


Here is the bottom line. People are trying to treat this like a game where you can either play for free (buy selling lindens on the lindex to cover all fees) and/or make a profit. I have seen it to often now to ignore it. If we all just paid our monthly subscriptions and land fees like in any other game which does not allow for use to move the currency out and profit from it we would not be having these debates

Land is not the factory either we are the factory we own the tools which are carried on our avatar and i can't possibly own enough land to accomodate the needs of my projects over time.

As for selling it well i can stick it in a box and reduce it to one prim and put it on a vendor. My vendors are free as I made them and others are free open source code and they work fine. My commercial space costs me a grand total of maybe 100 linden a week max (right now i am paying 30 a week i got a deal) Some things i display but not everything. Most is in boxes in mini malls because i am not a land barron and could not possibly afford that amount of land. I also don't expect to ever be able to as this would require i make massive lindens in game and convert it on the lindex to USD which i have no intention of doing.


So what does it cost me to sell my creations per month? welll i think i spend about 300 lindens over the period of a month on rent. My productions costs were for uploads that cost maybe 500 total over a month since i had to turf a lot or redo them because they got messed up once in the upload process. I had to hire no one and it all came from my imagination. materials aside for the textures have no real value they are provided for the cost of the membership


When i sell 1 or 2 items i day i am happy this covers what i spend in rent and upload costs for the month. Maybe one day i will be bigger but i am not interested in sinking huge quantities of real world cash into something which is a game for me.


also being a game and even with investors (all games have those) servers get shut down over time as new and improved and more exciting things come out for people to play. SEcond life will age and has already aged. It will one day end. When Second Life ends all your things you created will go bye bye when they whipe the hard drives. The copyrights and ip rights is limited to ingame application LL still really has ultimate control over that. If they want to whipe the hard drive tomorrow and start fresh again they can. (don't know why they would but it has happened in other games and some games doing every 6 months..) They said the stuff is your as intillectual property yes but they are the storage facility and they didn't say they will store it forever.

So be prepared to loose your stuff even a crash can result in loss of your items they won't replace it its gone forever...

People buying content through pying $US for $L is making the economy suffer?




Yeah, definitely. And I'll be guilty of that myself by the end of the summer. The $600USD worth of $L I have made and collected over the course of the year is going to go towards buying me a new $650US PocketPC However I think most of the large sells on the market are just people trying to cash out in time to be able to pay their LL tier fees.



Definitely. It would be extremely unfair to force people to keep paying $10US a month without giving them a stippend. However, I think cutting the stippend (either entirely or just reducing it) while cutting the monthly fee (say, down to $5, or even $3 a month for 512sqm plot) I think would definitely be fair to most people, since it will allow more people to own land, and you'd have more money to buy the amount of $L you actually need off of Lindex.





Yep, agreed. But you must admit, SL is very different from other games. Mainly in that all the content is created not my the game owners (such as WoW or Sims Online) who hire people to create content, but by the players themselves. The system that is set up to compensate them, which is our economy and Lindex, seems to be slightly borked at the moment though.



Land is still something that allows people to hang out, meet, and buy content, without the owner of the land being logged on 24/7 to handle transactions in person. It's still a constant expense on items being sold, whether it costs anything to make copies of those items or not. Too many people just tend to overlook this.



Inflation still hurts everyone. Either the person you are renting from, who is a land baron, will have to raise their rent fees to cover their tier, or they will have to abandon their land and SL entirely, leaving you with having to go find another place to sell, which would also means that any customers you may have had already wouldn't know where to buy your stuff, and you'd have to get new customers yet again at the new place. Its kinda of a problem that's hurting a lot of people, be they rich land barons, charitable non-profit types who just set up land for like-minded folks to have fun, and poor types who can only afford rent (just at the time) who want to spread their creations either for the same of making a littke $L, or just to be more well known.




When you do, good luck. Hopefully the economy would have stabilized enough by then where your investment wouldn't be a very risky one.




God I hope not. Thing is, a lot of games end because the content never changes (it's very costly to build new worlds for MMORPGS), or because the story just runs its course and in't updated. SecondLife isn't real an MMORPG though, and seems to keep evolving with time. It has outlasted EverQuest, and no doubt is already close to setting a record for the longest running MMO-thingy out there. I hope with more people coming in to create things, and with more tools being implemented by LL, this will continue on for years to come At least until I am able to put on my stereo glasses, which at the time make everyone's eyes bug out; SOMEONE FIX THAT PLEASE), rez multiple browser and other software "monitors" in front of me, and use motion capture head gear to look left and right while using a joystick-like glove to controll things, a-la Lawnmower Man or some other matrix-like sci-fi thing. (I think we're pretty darn close to this already. Just need that joystick support...)

-look up the word stipend in the dictionary
-next i do pay to play SL i pay 10 bucks a month i was not informed when i signed up that i was going to be expected by the player community or the company to buy lindens on top. If this had been the case i would be playing another game because no i can't afford it even if you think i can that's too bad because you dont know what types of people play this game in the long run.
-also i'm not being selfish and i find your posts to be flame bait so i wont be replying to the rest because of their tone your the one demanding everyone pay on top of paying for land rentals and monthly premium accounts for lindens which should be able to be generated in game by the game economy
-i pay 10 bucks a month to play plus i pay land rental (which i am tiering down due to the fact i can't afford it)

all i see is a guy that wants to punish basic players entering this game because he's been here longer and has already secured his position in the community. As a friend of mine who plays other games would say "i hate those super uber guber elitists who think they are better then me"

you attitude sucks and i wont want new players trying to decide to play this game when they read the forums to read your stuff its rude and you talk to down to people


i want other players to buy a premium membership but i dont think you do

bottom line the largest question that new players often ask when they explore the land and see things for sale (it was also mine) is "how do i earn money in SL?" that's a good question since these new players will not even have the basic stipend as a limited source of income to use as an example

"the largest cause of that is people using that buy button ingame when they want to buy content"

Not the case. Every Linden that is purchased from US dollars will, eventually, be sold back to US dollars. There is no net increase in the numbers in circulation (included here are the "ex" Lindens that have now become dollars).

"look up the word stipend in the dictionary"

I don't need to. A stipend is a regular payment made to investors in a company based on the financial gains of that company.

Technically, stipends in SL aren't stipends at all; basic players aren't investors, and the stipend doesn't vary in accordance with LindenLabs' profits/losses.

"next i do pay to play SL i pay 10 bucks a month i was not informed when i signed up that i was going to be expected by the player community or the company to buy lindens on top."

You're not being expected to buy Lindens on top. Just as when you pay to enter a themepark, you're not expected to buy a hot dog too. You only have to if you want one.

You've paid for the themepark. You haven't paid for all the hotdogs. Those are extra, and you DID know that; your premium account description did NOT say: "this premium account gives you enough money to buy anything you would ever want in the game".

"because no i can't afford it"

Yes, you can afford it. You just would rather spend your money on other things. But you CAN afford it.

"i wont be replying to the rest"

I don't believe that for a second.

"your the one demanding everyone pay on top of paying for land rentals and monthly premium accounts for lindens which should be able to be generated in game by the game economy"

If you want the hot dogs, you have to pay for the hot dogs. The money has to come from somewhere. "Generated in game"?

"all i see is a guy that wants to punish basic players entering this game because he's been here longer and has already secured his position in the community."

No. What you see is a person who has worked extremely hard, putting in long hours, creating items and buildings that people enjoy, and who has been rewarded for it. You see a person who looks around Second Life and sees countless people believing they are entitled to the same reward for doing nothing (stipends) or for doing nothing sitting down (campers).

"you attitude sucks"

I am well aware of this.

"i want other players to buy a premium membership but i dont think you do"

I haven't once complained about premium accounts or premium account stipends. What gives you the impression that I have?

"how do i earn money in SL?"

The answer is: get a job in real life and transfer a buck or two per month into SL. My, that was simple wasn't it?

One final note, Wilhelm; are you German or Russian or in any way a non-native English speaker?

Musuko.