Disable script creation/editing for unverified users

Ok, I'm sorry to have to say this, being a scripter and a newbie helper myself. But..

Any good scripter will tell you than scripting is an act with responsibility. You are responsible for not crashing things. You are responsible for not generating lag. And you are responsible for not creating the third grid attack in 48 hours.

No other system will allow completely unknown users to run arbitary code, and if the language has to be crippled so far that arbitary code can't possible do any harm, it'll be very hard to do any good with it either.

So, let's end this. Bar unverified users from using the "new script" button, nor starting up the script editor, nor uploading and compiling scripts. If you want to run programs on the main server, you have to at least provide the details of the real person doing so.

I recommended this a few months back, get ready for the flames. Yet, it is a valid point. Every grid attack comes from unverified users. If you want to script, pay the minimum amount for a upgraded account.

I'm new here but that makes sense to me.

There is no minimum amount.. you just have to put your details on file.

Linden speaks of their scripting runtime concept in this video

http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/4/1/94138e2a-d9dc-435a-9240-bcd985bf5bd7/Jim-Cory-SecondLife.wmv

they first assume all code is desgined to kill the machine it runs on
and enforces strict rules for what is actually possible by script
limitations and denial of execution

that sohuld be the philosophy behind letting people run their script on their
sims , i've been a scripter for a long time and i beleive takeing away scripts
from people just because they don't want to give their ID is a wrong concept

linden labs should keep focusing on protecting their servers from inworld script attacks , if by limiting their functionality or runtime , or enforcing other limits

I see this repeated frequently, but have yet to see anything that validates it. Is there somewhere we can get actual info on this? It doesn't seem likely to me, since LL policy protects everyone's identity.

Ach, I should have look in this first as I posted a similar topic.
But I wholeheartedly agree, unverified accounts shouldn't be able to run scripts period, or scripts with particular functions in them, unless the provide the info that will make it possible to prosecute them. IMO verified basics should have a minimum fee too anyway really, unverified lets you get a taste and see what other people have created, so if you like it upgrade to get scripts, if you like it a lot upgrade to premium to get land as well.

There are a variety of obvious ways to give your "griefer alt" an already compiled script that doesn't have your name on it. If you really can't think of one, I can go into more details.

Just get rid of the completely unverified accounts.

The quality of SL, community-wise and attack-wise, was SO much better before unverified signups. Now we have griefers and young kids who are running rampant trying to cram as much sex and raunchiness into their second life as they possibly can.

I hate to sound like a total bitch, but I'm all for getting rid of unverified accounts.

There were grid attacks before there was such a thing as an unverified user.

actually I just posted a reply to another similiar thread that mirrors what Seifert just said:

"There is one major problem with this solution. Yes it would stop the attacks and I agree with that but it is like exterminating every single bee on earth because you were stung by one. Of course in that case all life would end but that is besides the point. Also beside the point is that I am horrible at creating anologies

But look at the numbers. There are now 863,601 accounts. How many are unverified? For arguments sake let's say 1/3, which comes up to 287,867. Only one person is responsible for these attacks. Why in the world would you want to limit what a third of the population can do because of one person?????????????

I was an unverified account at one point. I never launched grid attacks. Well, now someone will say that unverifeds cause other problems. Excuse me, but I joined before unverifed accounts and they still had problems back then. Why do you think the abuse report system was in help back then?

Nope, LL is not going to get rid of unverified accounts nor limit them in anyway. They will come up with a software solution to stop the attacks thou. I proposed a simple one today and I see another one proposed also. If there is just a tiny amount of disruption due to an attack as opposed to disabling all scripts, stopping log ins etc. Then launching an attack in the first place is a pointless excersize."

I kind of think that LL will do what it takes to keep their INCOME...maybe? I believe ensuring that continues is more important than someone having free uninhibited access to "check things out". But, hey, I could be wrong.

I own land, and I own a business, and I am still on free account and pay zero US$ to LL. I would have never tried SL in the first place if I can't say "Hello World" from my own script in the first few days, nor would I join if I have to pay a single dollar just to try an "Online Game".

I have never played one.

If LL will not get rid of unverfied accounts then they should limit there capibilities in world. I am a major land and business owner (3 sims) and am beginng to think the constat attacks from unverfied accounts is just NOT WORTH IT. LL needs to take a hard look at who pays and supports there game.. people like me or the unverifed accounts.

For those who agree with the stopping of "NO PAYMENT INFO" accounts...

feel free to vote on this...

http://secondlife.com/vote/vote.php?get_id=2101

There will be no business if there is no customers. And only people in US and those with credit card can access to SL perior to open registration, the rest of the world don't. Although I don't like those junks that come with unverified, I say it's not a totally bad decision for LL.

Including the fact that now there are business conference setups in SL, the chance of revert back the option is low to the ground.

Disable unverified account from access your sims if you want. I have been curious how much unverified have bought my stuffs -- I have never had a chance to check just yet.

DO you really think it helps, and as far as people who dont pay anything saying they will go elsewhere first, GOOD. What is the harm in limiting their abilities, Im not saying bann their butts, I AM saying do not allow them to make or run scripts. Providing verifiable identity is NOT that hard and does NOT have to include charges, correct? so whats the big deal about making avi's provide this piece of info. Hell Id rather go play Spades in THERE than sit n my land going hmmmm cant run scripts, what do I do???

I diagree. There are an unending list of alternatives they could use that would solve the same problem. The cellphone verification scheme could have been expanded world-wide. They could have expanded the referral program to a sponsorship one. They could have contracted out account verification, the way the phone companies and ISPs sell "bulk blocks" of accounts to resellers. The current and previous status quo (status quos? stati quo?) are not the only optyions by a long shot.
If they don't do something, they're going to lose more real customers over the long term. The only alternatives are to cripple and cheapen scripting in SL to the point where it's no better than "There", or to make "unverifieds" even more "second class" than they are now. Neither alternative is to the advantage of the folks who legitimately can't get into SL with a US credit card.

When they went to branding people with their payment status I objected because I didn't like the idea of having a "second class" set of citizens created.

This kind of proposal is precisely why I objected.

If people can't get on with a US credit card, find another way to let them get on with verification. DON'T get rid of verification completely.

I rather like the suggestion of confining people to a newbie sim unless they provide verification by cc number or verified paypal account.

We already have help island (I think it's called) which allows people to get a sense of what SL is like. It seems fairly simple to make it so unverified accounts can't port out of help island and thereby confine them there.

It also seems like a major undertaking to adapt the code so that unverified accounts can't script. And it would be dreadful to limit everyone's scripting freedoms to solve this problem, because it is the scripting abilities that makes SL what it is, to a large extent.

It is a gnarly problem: how to bestow freedom and yet eliminate exploitation of it.

For the education project people, it might be good to create a licensing program so that a verified account can have linked child accounts that the verified user is responsible for and can control.

How many in a week? 4, like this last week, 3, like a few weeks ago, or only once every month or two?
I was around before the cell-phone sign ups, and while, yes that isn't THAT old, I still swa fewer instances of grid-crippling attacks then as I have THIS WEEK ALONE!
Now, not to say there hasn't been progress. Andrew Linden's Grey Goo fence has made a few of the grid attacks relatively minor--that is, I didn't even know they were going on except for the notices about "we are aware of the grid attack."
Even if I don't count the attacks that didn't effect me I've still seen more in the last few weeks than I did in the entire time before Unverifieds.

I agree - and I like scripting. The money I make, most of it I make by writing scripts, and I help new folks to learn to script when I can.

But the problem is, every time something like this happens, scripts (and thus scripters) seem to find themselves on the firing line. Last night, scripters were unable to produce anything for upwards of five hours. It's likely that some users logged in while scripts were still off, didn't get the notice from LL or realise its implications, suddenly found scripted items they had paid for didn't work properly, and told their friends.

And the news of new technical solutions is always rather frightening. Every networked vendor in SL, every purely in-world information service, already has to circumvent a built-in limit in order to work. So does every door or other object that opens or moves at a speed other than the maximum possible. So you can see, it would take a only tiny toughening up of these kind of limits to eliminate these scripts entirely.

Trying to be "ecological" and responsible as a scripter is already difficult enough, given that your competitor who doesn't bother doing so will get to market first and damage your sales, since many users don't notice or care about the details of how exactly how scripts are run. Saying that a single anonymous person running a grid attack is enough to counterbalance all the efforts of scripters who've tried to keep things safe and minimise lag, etc, and trigger extra language restrictions for everyone is horrid. I understand why LL would say it, but it's still horrid, and it feels like a sword of Damocles over the folks who tried their best.

We can't introduce a two-tier system of scripting, that would be unfair to new users, but we can at least insist that if somebody wants to write scripts, LL should know the real person is who's effectively responsible for part of the program code of their world. I don't have anything against unverified users; many of them I know have been extremely productive; but it's the only way I can think of to prevent this.

I think unverified accounts should be as restricted as they are in THERE.com. Thats just me and my sick-and-tiredness of this bullshit though...

It's come to a point where even WoW is better then SL... I started playing EQ2 to get away from the retards. People who play that are average gamers and crafting types who roleplay.

Yes plz.

I tried to make this comment on the blog but it just eats all my replies...

I don't think SL can grow the way I think LL wants it to by taking this parochial monolithic top-down approach to these things. Unverified accounts are not the cause of the current attacks, they're just the handiest things to use. The attacks are (I think) a direct, spiteful revenge by V5/sympathisers against the mass banning. Mafia mentality, not unverified accounts are the cause.

I'd rather they improved and fixed land options. I am a landowner and sim manager, but I can't manage scripts on my group deeded parcels effectively. If we could allow/block scripting or script functions to non-group/owner objects, that would deal with a lot of the technical problems. So like we have push restriction, we can have give inventory restriction, rez restriction, even pay restriction (stop those scammers). The specifics are only important in how they are effective. Of course, unlike push restriction I would like these limits defaulted "on" .

The point is to put the power and responsibility into the hands of the residents- not by legitimising vigilante mob mentality and issuing crippling edicts from on high, but by allowing us to manage the spaces we have more effectively.

If we're looking at this world/web analogy, people don't need to register with some international body to be allowed to run scripts on their websites- that's between them and their host. To me, that means land owners/sim managers choosing how things like scripts can be run on their spaces.

But please, put the pitchforks away. I know some good, creative people with no payment info on file. I am also pretty sure that V5 would have carried out these attacks (who thinks it isn't them? hands up) with or without the convenience of unverified alts.

I don't like Guilty until proven Innocent.