Universal and Compulsory Age verification

The current proposal for an Age Verification System raises some very interesting issues.

1. SL is supposed to be an 18 years plus area of the internet and the current registration sytem has been adequate to ensure the integrity of that understanding. Either it is or is not. If it is then we do not need age verification.

2. If it is not then we have to do something. If we make AV available, then we can say that all avatars connected to Age verified accounts are within the terms of service. We then restrict Adult Content areas so only Age Verified accounts can go there. Back to point one. Sl is no longer a secure 18 plus environment. There could be kids in there and NOW people looking for young folk know where to concentrate their search. Not in the crack dens, brothels and sewers but in the nicer parts of town.


3. So now we have those who enjoy the adult side of SL (and I am one of them) happy and content that the people we shoot and shag are all adults. And when i put on my business/creative hat I can share that experience with people whose Rl profile does not worry me. But if I crack an off color joke - or drop and expletive as a Prim does not behave - can I be sure that I am not swearing in front of a minor?


My proposal is that we make Age Verification in Second Life Compulsory and Universal. 30 days to verify all accounts and then no access to the grid for those who choose not to. Let Linden Labs work out the fine details - countries where ID is a bit shaky and other administrative details.

Say that from June 1 that all accounts have 30 days to verify and on July one they will be banned access to the grid until they have complied.

The advantages of this proposal, as against the way Linden labs is thinking is:


1 we all know that the Avatar next to us is 18 plus or the sort of kid who will lie and steal and cheat to get their own way and no one is going to protect them no matter how much effort is made. And the same kid is probably going to use fake ID to get to their favoirte parts of Sl anyway under the current proposal.

2. Land owners do not have to worry about what content is on their land. Every one in SL is approved to go where they like

3. While it may seem draconian, universal and compulsory age verification is consistant, valid, reliable and fair. If people abuse it by using fake ID, then that is their look out. They can do that under the current proposal.

By treating all accounts the same, then there is no debate, no argument, no hair splitting etc.

So I propose, Compulsory Universal Age verification to ensure that Second Life is a secure over 18's site as per the Terms of Service.

I think this may be step 2 of Robin's plan

I agree that it makes more sense like this, epsecially when we don't seem to have details of how exactly they intend to implement this. As pointed out in other threads, the current interpretation of flagging parcels (if a single parcel in a mature sim is flagged as adult, then the whole sim is unavailable to no age-verified members), or even if it is actually on a per-parcel basis which prevents the contents reaching non-verified users, and are warded off by ban-lines. The result is a mess, ban lines everywhere or entire sims we can't get into?

It may as well be universal at that point, and I'd agree with doing it, as allowing unverified accounts in in the first place was a joke, when I joined EVERYONE had to verify financial details, while it may not have been 100% sure of restricting minors, it at least gave people a degree of accountability for their actions. I know that LL have said they won't store personal details, and I wouldn't feel comfortable otherwise, but there's nothing preventing them from storing say a one-way-hash of part of the supplied information. Even if reverse-engineered it would be useless, but could be used to ban people by passport/driver's lincense etc without putting the actual details at risk.

If this is an 18+ community, everyone should be age identified (but not with ssn)! I do not understand why this doesn't happen at registration. We are in SL to get away from the kids!

Are there plans to merge the teen grid with the main grid which would require parcels to be flagged? Otherwise, we are all adults and can make our own choices.

I totally agree with this.. This is really the way it should be done anyways.. I mean think about it.. Just doing this would relieve alot of stress on the grid .. This open door free let anybody in no matter what deal, is what caused SL to get out of hand in the first place..

I absolutely do not agree if it is through integrity, and if it requires sensitive information such as last 4 of SS#, passport #, ID#'s...no way.

It does happen at registration, this is not LL's problem to solve, they have a box that you check if you are over 18, anything beyond that is the parents responsibility!

May as well get it over with - Instead of stringing people along and leeching their money when theres no intention to let them stay unverified for long.

Where did they say this?

Forgive me, Thanatos, but has it escaped your attention that the Age Verification proposed won't actually work ?
Just as now minors get in by entering someones elses credit card number and address, in future they will enter the same persons driving licence number and address, etc.

No improvements in practical exclusions at all.

Isn't this rather relevant ?

Note also that since neither Integrity nor LL will hold any record of the check they made (so we are promised) it won't even be possible to hold anyone accountable later for false entries, or investigate to find out what they actually entered.

Think about it......

They don't have to hold the details themselves, but rather some kind of irreversible, partial (ie not taken from the entire data) hash of the data instead. This would allow them to identify individuals without actually having to keep any usable or reverse-engineerable data on them. This way they could ban the use a particular driver's license or passport if needed to prevent someone signing up with it again, or multiple people using it to get around the restriction.

If information is stored in any way that someone could track a user down later for legal or game violations - then that information can be hacked. Period. Any information kept anywhere that can tie a real person to a game account/avatar is a ripe peach to be plucked by identity theives or worse.

Have we not been told that there will be no record kept ?

You have pointed out that they could keep a record in a particular coded form that might quieten complaints a little, but that is not what they said.

And even if they did this, it would still not be possible to find what a particular "cheater" had actually entered, merely to find a second instance if the same was entered again. Would it be worth them deceiving us for such a limited result ?

But this is just a secondary consideration.

My main concern is that this will not result in any significant reduction in under-18 cheaters on the grid.

Does anyone actually think it will ?

Can they suggest why ? I just don't see it.

They didnt - they have said if we cant police ourselves on adult content then they will have to require verification.

I have no faith in the ability of us as a user community policing ourselves.

Especially in an environment where they wont even give examples of what will break the rules.

Therefore when(if w/e) it does become Mandatory it will be OUR fault.

Nope - completely irrelevant

The service is willing to cover Linden Labs Liability in the case of litigation on verification issues.

Therefore how well it actually works - Is meaningless.

So they are willing to risk our identification security for their own liability...thanks for caring LL!

While I understand your sentiment - its actually the only smart business move I see them making in all this, LOL.

I personally wouldn't have any problem at all with this if they could do it without requiring such sensitive information. I played a game a while back that had an interesting way of verifying age. They asked a question that only someone "old enough" would know the answer to. Unfortunately that wouldn't work because answers to any question are so easily found on the internet, but there has got to be a way to verify age without asking for SS#, passport#, or even our real address...I really don't want to get political junk mail from this company. Why can't we just scan and send a copy of our drivers license or birth certificate?

I am well aware that Age Verification will not work - laws against stealing cars and taking drugs do not work.

But, the issue here is setting up an infrastructure that complies with societal expectations, that is using the best available systems and a logical methodology to reduce the risk of young people being exposed to inappropriate content. At the moment they are just hearding all of the non verified accounts into one area of the grid.

I seemed to have missed the other advantage of verified registration. Griefers can be tracked and excluded. Everyone has whined about "what do Lindens do about grid attacks". Well here is even a stronger argument for universal, compulsory verification.

Exactly. Precisely. If only more of us would look facts in the eye, and see this for what it is.

Mind you, what good does it do us to face the truth? It won't change anything. Except make the pain and anger of having to decide whether to risk compromising our privacy even worse.

For a good cause, maybe. But for this cosmetic nonsense ?

How is this more easily done than with Credit Card verification ?
Surely we just know whose Driving License the griefer borrowed, instead of whose Credit Card ? To get back in s/he just borrows a different one, as before.

The "computer identity" calculation is far more effective for this purpose, and we already have it.

Anyway, who says a potential griefer will get verified ? He wants to make trouble, not gaze at someone else's adult content.

"Anyway, who says a potential griefer will get verified ? He wants to make trouble, not gaze at someone else's adult content"

Atum thats the point of compulsory verification - then every one is traceable, not those who really have nothing to hide.

I don't understand why we need a new category. As it stands now:
PG: Only contains stuff kids can see (even on the adult grid)
Mature: Contains anything adults can see (which includes normal things and adult things)

Why have a new category which is just the same as Mature, but has the stigma that everyone will assume it's full of porn?

Becuase Mature will no longer mean Mature

it will mean just some of what we have previously thought of as Mature.

Forgive me Lorna, but you will never understand as long as you imagine this proposal has anything whatever to do with reducing the number of minors at risk. For that it does nothing more than credit cards, and they did little.

This is about two things.
1. LL's Public Image.
2. LL's exposure to litigation.

Nothing whatever to do with actually in practice protecting more minors.

This is not irrational because LL is irrational - far from it.

It is because of the irrationality and hysteria in our culture, encouraged by our media and too often reinforced by our judiciary.

Irrationality and hysteria which must often be pandered to by those in power, as one of the prices we have to pay for democracy. There is always another election on the horizon.