Prevent automated land buying!

i hope you realise Linden Labs probably don't give a sh^_^t about this "issue" right?

Actually they do.
It's they don't give a sh^_^t about the feature voting.

I think the way LL changed the TOS as soon as this issue came to light is a strong sign that they do care, but not in the way Reverend would hope.

No, you would need to set up a data base listener, just like reading a notecard or waiting for email. But there would be no need to query the database all the time.

Transfers the load from the land server to the sims.

The actual data is not large, just some parcel details and a price. Miniscule if you compare it to the texture data floating around.

If you filter it, you only get what you interested in. It's called pushing data rather than pulling it, and it would lighten the load on the server as well as equilize the playing field, particularly when everyone starts using bots to query the db.

Could also be set up to only work when your av in the same sim as the listener object.

But any Email (or News or RSS) reader still needs to poll the server in regular intervals to receive notification. It is not broadcast automatically because the email server does not know you're connected, or keeps that info only for a very short time. In SL it should be possible to implement a subscription model that would enable you to receive the requested information at the time it occurs, with a minimum of added traffic. But it would have to be supported by the server, a hack in the open source client isn't quite enough.

Apologies if this has been suggested before, I have not managed to read the entire thread

I would see each sim carry a cache of all land availability, just the coordinates and price. As land is bought and sold, in addition to the current action, a little message could be passed from the sim in which it happened to al other sims, so updating their cache. Each sim on receiving this message would check its list of listeners in user scripts for a land change event and fire it if it matches the criteria set when each listener was set up. This way there would be no load at all on the land asset server except for simple updating and the occasional sim resetting its cache.

As it is now, more and more folks will use bots to query the land asset server for data and the load will rapidly increase.

As priorities go, I do not ever see this being implemented by LL. They will simply improve the land asset server until it can cope with the increased load of the ever multiplying land bots.

Regardless if Linden changed the TOS or not, how many people really read the TOS for any software their install?. Some TOS are just too long winded, and go on and on and on. I guess most people just don't bother reading it.

If the TOS changed, and Elanthius obeyed the rules and stopped his bots, it does not mean that any other land bot developer will do the same. Besides they could do several tricks and create multiple accounts to make it harder from being detected, etc.

Linden will have to fix the software their end to stop the issue, and also stop the currently released source code from being used to run land bots.

Well done for Elanthius for spotting a loop hole in the software, and daring to speak about it. Otherwise he could have kept his mouth shut and not said a word.

Their could be other loop holes in the SL software, which Linden have not spotted yet.

When LL released the source, my first thought was "automated land trading".

Elanthius was the first who did it, but others will follow ... I am a highly skilled C++ programmer, and I too already looked into the "land trading" section of the source code ...

Currently, land in SL is somewhat like stock shares in RL. They are a "virtual property", and they can be traded by computer programs. Look into RL: The biggest volume of shares are traded by computer programs today; Everyday, Billiards of Dollars are traded automatically. Actually, there is a "stock war" of bots flipping shares.

So on the bottom line, I think the only solution is a captcha verification system which ensures that you are human.

It's been over two weeks. Seems to me as though if Linden Labs hasn't done anything to stop this by now, they aren't going to.

Prop: 2783 against land bots has 2308 votes/355 voters - 3rd highest number of votes.

Complaints posted on numerous forums and in blog comments.

Numerous people have emailed Lindens about this issue.

Is that implicit approval for all of us to program some bots to battle each other for the cheap land? I think I shall name my group the Magnificent Herd of Annabelle, LLC.

http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2007/02/09/linden-sees-further-drop-in-real-estate-prices/

This article provides a lot of insight into LL's opinion.

From the article: “For the most part, I think the bot problem is fixed.”

That's hilarious!!! I hope it gave you a good chuckle, Elanthius. Carry on, evil genius. Your flock is faster than my herd.

Proposal 2783 is currently in second place on the highest number of votes list. Show your anger over automated land buying here: http://secondlife.com/vote/vote.php?get_id=2783 and keep sending those emails to the Lindens! Thanks.

Seems like I checked for first land, about eleventy-two hundred times since I joined on Feb. 8 and still no luck.

I would just be happy if the land tab would update in real time. Even if I click away refreshing the list and finally see a property show up while i'm refreshing, it is always way after the fact and of course a flipper has already pounced on it.

I'm sorry you can't get the first land you deserve. But you are confusing two different problems. You don't need a land bot to buy first land. And no land bot in existence is affecting the availability of first land.

There really is no problem for those who understand how the bot works... Everyone can still buy first land. Everyone can still get reasonably priced waterfronts. The only lots that the bot buys are lots that are greatly underpriced, which are usually green flats or worse lots. Is that really what you had your sights on? Not really any different than your first land now is it? Oh, you wanted a size larger than 512 but wanted to pay some ridiculously low price? I guess you should have bought when they were 6.2 just a short while ago

The bottom line -- the bot does not affect regular players. Many regular players bought lots when prices feel under 10.0 and are very happy with their purchases. The bot also does not affect larger barons buying sims at a time. It affects the little barons/opportunists trying to make a quick buck off someone's inexperience -- having incorrectly priced their lot. Now, should we have sympathy for such opportunists? They would do the same thing as the bot anyway -- buy the land and then sell it to YOU; that's right, YOU, the regular player, for just as high, actually, likely higher as Elanthius is quite reasonable on his prices. So you choose... Is the bot really a problem? Would you prefer to pay more for land were there no bot. I've maintained from the start my support of the bot. I see nothing wrong with it and Elanthius has nothing but my respect for devising such a device. To frown on him for making such a device is childish. Do you really see wrong in such a device OR are you jealous that he's profiting from something you don't have the skills to program? Take a peek at the first few first page listings under search, write down their locations and check back in a day or two. You'll be surprised how many "bot haters" are actually doing the same thing as the bot themselves -- clicking 'search' over and over again thinking they can make a quick L6000 on that "newbie" who priced his 1024 for 8.0 instead of the going 14.0 per sqm.

I have no doubt the large majority of votes against the bot are by newbies who are being mislead by mini-barons about the buying abilities of the bot.

The comment above is proof of that:



Certain people have allowed the idea to get out that bots are buying all the first land, and other certain people have done nothing to correct that impression.

The fact that there hasn't been any first land to buy never seems to be mentioned. In the meantime I see one name getting to all of the cheap land in the lagged for sale listings, and that name is not Elanthius's.

I hear this a lot and am wondering if this is something people think or something people know.

It seems to me that if a unscrupulous wannabe land baron can write a libsl/viewer that automates land buying, somebody should be able to write one up that searches for First Land and records stats on how many parcels there are, how long they stay for sale as First Land and, maybe, how long until they get resold. LL isn't overly forthcoming with these kinds of stats (and I don't blame them for that) so it's something we (we=not me personally) could write up...

If I had a dime for every time someone blamed the shortage of available first land mistakenly on the landbots... I wonder how many land sellers are promoting that position in order to sell their land to unsuspecting newbies - 'you'll never get first land because of the land bot, here, buy my overpriced land'.

I'm starting to wonder how many other people out there have bots. Search is so far behind it's ridiculous, and I have to think it has something to do with the incredible load on the database.

It really seems to me that Linden Lab's reluctance to take action despite the aforementioned uproar and LL's outright statement in the article Elanthius pointed out that the landbot 'problem' is resolved speaks volumes about their position on the situation.

At any rate, it's been kinda fun playing in the real estate market the past few weeks with my extra tier. You don't need a bot to find good land for a good price and re-market it to highlight the good things to make a small profit. You don't make a killing that way, but it's a good way to explore and make a few extra bucks. The bot mostly appears useful to swoop in on mispricing (not a whole lot of that) and crap land that sellers just want to get rid of (plenty of that).

Yes, somebody should be able to. In fact, somebody has (a one-line change to make it look for first land instead of all land notwithstanding).

But what would be the point? It's much easier to join the First Land Finders group and listen to the whinging!

BTW, I assume you've all seen the auctions - the new continent is up. 16 sims today, but none yesterday. Told you all the output would be lumpy!

Uh.. Did you read my post? Just curious..

Yes I did.

So is it true that LL is putting abandoned parcels up for sale at $1/sq.m. for anyone to grab now that they've ended the first land program, and effectively feeding the landbots?

LL have always put small abandoned plots up for sale at L$1/sqm. My understanding is everything under 512sqm goes on general sale at L$1/sqm, everything under 4096 goes in L$ auctions and everything else on USD auctions. I could be a bit off on those sizes though.

They should be putting them up for auction.

Small parcels (< 512 sm), they had previously mentioned setting them for sale to adjacent landowners only at L$1/sm, using their in-house land scanners that run as Perl scripts on the sims.