Jira only became viable last week, IIRC. Give it a month or 3 THEN call it a bust.
I'm just saying right now I don't trust it. Its also been around longer than a week..its a bust already.
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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06-07-2007 09:14
I'm just saying right now I don't trust it. Its also been around longer than a week..its a bust already. _____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 130
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06-07-2007 10:36
I'm just saying right now I don't trust it. Its also been around longer than a week..its a bust already. Yeah, but they announced a bug-fix for the voting just a week or so ago. Give it another shot. |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 130
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06-07-2007 10:39
Yeah, but they announced a bug-fix for the voting just a week or so ago. Give it another shot. They also need to fix their categories for errors. There are at least 2 places to make suggestions/report bugs for scripting, for example, and I think they dupe a lot of the other categories also. |
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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06-07-2007 10:59
I've given them a second chance. They blew that too. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times..won't happen.
_____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 130
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06-07-2007 11:33
I've given them a second chance. They blew that too. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times..won't happen. Is an important issue, I think, that they need to address: making contributors feel that they are wasting their time. a bug-fix for the jira scripting categories. so that scripting/language issues are all in one place, instead of scattered in 3 or 4 different categories: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-153 |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 130
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06-09-2007 15:01
bump
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
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06-12-2007 14:43
I've already submitted it as a suggestion in jira. Please vote or explain why you are against it: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-255 LL should consider pushing certain features into SL 2.0 and rather than attempting to maintain complete backwards compatibility with SL 1.x, they should design from scratch with an eye to eventually making tools that allow existing content (prims, scripts, etc) to be converted to run properly in 2.0 sims rather than try to turn SL 1.0 into 2.0 directly. If a landowner converts to 2.0 he/she gets a discount on rent from LL. LL could even bring back the "first land" thing for a while for people willing to adopt 2.0. [...] People should vote/comment on jira concerning this (LL wouldn't even consider this proposal unless there is strong grassroots support from the existing community, I am certain), and this thread could be used to discuss what you would want to see in SL 2.0, and suggestions for how to do it. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-255 Cheers. Bump again. What I find fascinating is that people complain but never vote on their favorite bug-fix/feature. I've sat in on the weekly triage of bug-fixes for the viewer --it is open to the public at Rob Linden's in-game office on Monday afternoons, and they DO pay at least some attention to jira votes. They would pay more attention if people would actually *bother* to vote.... |
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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06-12-2007 18:04
Thats your impression. Many have the impression LL doesn't pay attention..so don't bother.
I've seen bugs ignored when tones of people reported it as messe dup in beta.. only to be fully present in the main grid release, which only make sit worse. I haven't seen any proof LL listens except to the media..so why bother? _____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President |
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Kevin Susenko
Voice Mentor
Join date: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 198
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06-12-2007 19:32
Thats your impression. Many have the impression LL doesn't pay attention..so don't bother. I've seen bugs ignored when tones of people reported it as messe dup in beta.. only to be fully present in the main grid release, which only make sit worse. I haven't seen any proof LL listens except to the media..so why bother? Part of the problem is a lot of the major issues that people are having like crashing and inventory loss are very hard to reproduce for other people with any reliability, thus very hard to fix. And then people take it as a personal affront when they don't get fixed. _____________________
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (Overclocked - 2.8GHz) | Mobo: EVGA nForce 680i SLI | GPU: XFX nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX 768mb GDDR3 | Memory: 4gb DDR2 PC5300 667MHz Dual Channel | PSU: Antec Neo HE 550w | Sound: SoundBlaster X-Fi Xtrememusic | HDD: 950gb total SATA3 | OS: Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit
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Draco18s Majestic
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Join date: 19 Sep 2005
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06-13-2007 06:20
Another part of the problem is bug people really really care about being closed for stupid reasons.
The Chatterbox will hit the main client today because someone commented on the Jira for it: Celierra Darling [12/Jun/07 10:44 AM] The new chatterbox doesn't seem to be in the non-voice beta, so I don't think it is being released. I'll close this with 'cannot repro'. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1150 |
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
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06-13-2007 06:38
Part of the problem is a lot of the major issues that people are having like crashing and inventory loss are very hard to reproduce for other people with any reliability, thus very hard to fix. And then people take it as a personal affront when they don't get fixed. I'm talking things that should have been fixed in the beta and people mentioned.. not just inventory loss (which shouldn't happen unless LL's servers are corrupt). Flexi had bugs when it first came out.. which were reported..and then came out main release. Hardware lighting. Push restriction. All had comments and bug reports.. but LL didn't do anything to address those reports before releasing onto the main grid. The snapshot change with the 'still frame flash' was one they obviously could easily fix...and one they got complained to about. Only after it hit main grid did they remove it. I can reproduce my crashing simply - I log in. The texture system introduced in 1.14, whatever change they did, screwed me. And its ALWAYS a corrupt texture file when my computer fixes itself. _____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 130
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06-13-2007 07:42
I'm talking things that should have been fixed in the beta and people mentioned.. not just inventory loss (which shouldn't happen unless LL's servers are corrupt). Flexi had bugs when it first came out.. which were reported..and then came out main release. Hardware lighting. Push restriction. All had comments and bug reports.. but LL didn't do anything to address those reports before releasing onto the main grid. The snapshot change with the 'still frame flash' was one they obviously could easily fix...and one they got complained to about. Only after it hit main grid did they remove it. I can reproduce my crashing simply - I log in. The texture system introduced in 1.14, whatever change they did, screwed me. And its ALWAYS a corrupt texture file when my computer fixes itself. The bug triage happens at 3PM on Mondays. If you can't be there to defend your bug or complain, it should still be possible to send a comment to Rob Linden about it. They don't arbitrarily close bugs, IMHO, having sat in on the meeting. They listen to people and try to consider the issues. The Viewer (which is what VWR bugs are supposed to be all about) is open source and while LL is coordinating the open source effort, they aren't "in charge" of everything in that case. |
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Draco18s Majestic
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06-13-2007 08:31
They don't arbitrarily close bugs, IMHO, having sat in on the meeting. They listen to people and try to consider the issues. What about the Jira proposal to remove the chatterbox? Closed because it's "unreproducable." |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
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06-13-2007 08:44
What about the Jira proposal to remove the chatterbox? Closed because it's "unreproducable." Well, obviously, they couldn't reproduce it. They actually discuss this stuff in-world, in public at Rob LInden's office, you know. Transcripts of at least some of the discussions are archived so you can contact the people making those statements directly if you like. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage |
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Banking Laws
Realty Serious
Join date: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 602
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06-13-2007 08:48
Yeah.. except from what I heard, Lindens didn't really listen to the players then either. So again.. why bother?
_____________________
"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid in posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. President |
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Draco18s Majestic
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Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2,744
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06-13-2007 08:48
It's the chatterbox. Are you telling me they can't repro the chatterbox?
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
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06-13-2007 09:33
It's the chatterbox. Are you telling me they can't repro the chatterbox? Did you sit in on the conversation? Sometimes mistakes happen when discussing the bugs, and sometimes they can't find a way of reproducing it. |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
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06-13-2007 09:37
It's the chatterbox. Are you telling me they can't repro the chatterbox? Do you mean the voice feature itself? That is NOT being released today as far as I know. Bugs reported in beta can get fixed in beta internally without showing up in jira, so perhaps that is what hey are referring to. |
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Draco18s Majestic
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06-13-2007 09:54
Did you sit in on the conversation? Sometimes mistakes happen when discussing the bugs, and sometimes they can't find a way of reproducing it. It's a Jira proposal saying "remove the chatterbox. it's too big, too klunky, and we don't like it." Do you mean the voice feature itself? That is NOT being released today as far as I know. Bugs reported in beta can get fixed in beta internally without showing up in jira, so perhaps that is what hey are referring to. Not voice, I mean the chatterbox, which effects TYPED CHAT too. And it may not be up for release today, but it's still something in Jira that was closed for a reason that doesn't make sense with the issue. |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
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06-13-2007 12:44
It's a Jira proposal saying "remove the chatterbox. it's too big, too klunky, and we don't like it." Not voice, I mean the chatterbox, which effects TYPED CHAT too. And it may not be up for release today, but it's still something in Jira that was closed for a reason that doesn't make sense with the issue. Sorry, I didn't know what chatterbox was. Still don't. Is it the tabbed window for group IM? |
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Draco18s Majestic
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Join date: 19 Sep 2005
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06-13-2007 14:34
The chatterbox combines the following:
Group list Friends list Local chat IM chat (groups/ad-hoc/one-on-one) Voice chat Voice chat settings Into a window that is 2/3 of your screen wide and 1/2 of your screen tall. Though, the last time I was in Beta I did not see local chat (the way it appears when History is closed) until after I opened the Chatterbox and closed it again. |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
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06-13-2007 16:11
The chatterbox combines the following: Group list Friends list Local chat IM chat (groups/ad-hoc/one-on-one) Voice chat Voice chat settings Into a window that is 2/3 of your screen wide and 1/2 of your screen tall. Though, the last time I was in Beta I did not see local chat (the way it appears when History is closed) until after I opened the Chatterbox and closed it again. So its not the tabbed group chat liike in the main grid? Couldn't find anyone to chat with so I didn't test group IM. Sounds like a silly way to do things. Any major window should be reziable... |
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Draco18s Majestic
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Join date: 19 Sep 2005
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06-13-2007 20:27
Oh, it's resizeable alright. You can make it BIGGER.
And IMs stay tabbed, but non-IM chat is....guess what....another tab. |
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Saijanai Kuhn
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Join date: 16 May 2007
Posts: 130
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06-13-2007 20:43
Oh, it's resizeable alright. You can make it BIGGER. And IMs stay tabbed, but non-IM chat is....guess what....another tab. If the voice-related stuff was made hideable, everything but the local chat issue would go away. Of course, there's the lack of history, but that looks like a bug all its own... |
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Draco18s Majestic
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
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06-14-2007 08:14
I went and got some pics.
The smallest the window gets (smaller than it was in Beta, this is from FL): www.pages.drexel.edu/~mmj29/temp/chatterbox1.jpg Wow. I can't see my friends list very well. Lets make it big enough so that if all my friends loaded I could read all their names, etc. and then move to the next tab. www.pages.drexel.edu/~mmj29/temp/chatterbox2.jpg Wow...that's a lot of screen realestate! Far far too much for that IM window. www.pages.drexel.edu/~mmj29/temp/chatterbox3.jpg And too much for the history tab too, and despite it's ginormous size, the "near me" list is pitifully small. |
