Green dot on sim map = Opt out

Like I want to be tracked by a old player or even a new one .... I realize its a minor occurance but its an increasing one as SL grows.
---------------- Julia --------------

I agree Julia and also like the "home - alone - privacy..." suggestion as well as more calling card options.

One thing that i wonder about is for all the new privacy abilities enabled will this also enpower a wacko-member that has a gruge and can effectively stalk and hide from other SL'ers who become victimized by more powerful inviso features?

Yeah Merwan makes a good point - something i thought of later after I posted initially. The privacy features could be a double-edged sword - possibly empowering griefers, voyeurs and eavesdropping. In which case your privacy might be violated without you even knowing - because you don't see any green dots nearby.

Hmmm... its a tricky issue.

i was thinking of this a long while back. It would seemably make the most sense as a land toggle... aka if you don't want people shown as dots on your land, you can set a checkbox for the parcel, either for an hour, or indefinately.

There are times i love having new players or jus bored people come by and start up a conversation.. but theres also times im deep into scripting and i KNOW if i could jus not be seen on the map i wouldn't get the constant string of strangers dropping by to interrupt me /grief me as im working

I'm surprised that some members drop by people's land and are invasive, let alone rude or greifers. I still feel i'm intruding just to walk on someone's land, not to mention into their dwelling. When approaching boats, i always sas "Permission to Board" first.

Maybe a feature like that for land and or dwellings (for those with larger holdings) that requires anyone entering to have to verbalize somehing like "Permission to enter" or "Permission to Interrupt" - and then when no response was made by the owner, they would have to leave within x seconds - or be teleported back to where they started from.

Something about having an Inviso mode that feels like it would be abused...

How about if you don't show up as a green dot if you are on your land and set to Busy. I don't think that would make harassment easier.

Some are missing the point entirely. Some are ASSUMING the world will become a mass of nothing with no way to find anyone or anything. I AM directing this at you people. If you want to be social that is fine. But dont force everyone else to talk to you because you're lonely and want to see what those dots are doing. Not everyone is like you. Some people are tired and want some space. You may not have that problem but I do.

Abuse? Lets raise the 'ban/restrictions' on land all the way to the ceiling of SL. But that wouldn't fly would it? You'd have the people flying through crying foul because they aren't able to get over the property instead of around it (true story) by some 50-100m to the sides.

Just like in the first life, this is NOT an AOL happy fun chat room. Some people like to be left alone at times. Lately I have been feeling this way due to the number a-hole visitors who have nothing but fetish thoughts while stroking their little pixel on their side of the screen with a tweezer. I am sick of being bugged and visited by these kinds of people and I originally suggested the OPTION, that's right please read it again.. "OPTION" (aka CHOICE, not forced on anyone)... to be invisible to everyone but those I choose. If that offends you, the social butterflies of the world who can't stand being restricted the right to talk to me. I'm sorry. I have my days that i want to be left alone, not hunted, not stalked, not anything.

I could restrict the land I'm on but guess what? Lindens restricted to around 40m at the ground level. Doesnt do a thing but piss people off who are trying to fly through or around. So that option is bust. So how do you stop from being bothered. Oh well, "you can go into the sky". Until you have joe newbie who just cant SURVIVE the rest of his life until he knows where those little uber dots are but cant seem to find them. He/She cant sleep until they know WHERE they are. Sick bastards.

: P

Thank you, Julia. I'm finding a lot of the posts in this thread to be completely astonishing. Having the OPTION for some privacy is a feature built into nearly every IM system there is. It just makes sense that we should have it in SL. The "it will destroy our way of life" vibe mentality just makes no sense to me. It's a very small change and one that I can't possibly see any negative fallout from.

We should have this feature, and in fact, we DO... it's just only accessable from the God menu. If you ever see Governor Linden in world, check and see. I've never seen her online, just in-world.

And by the way, Julia, it's not just Little Joe Newbie who does that, I do it too.

Pfft, difference is I know you Catherine and you are welcome there, even if I am in a bad mood. For those who've been around me lately, some may or may not realize its that time of the month and I'm not in the mood for certain things, people, and issues. >P

Overall I love to socialize and meet/greet people but like any human in life i like to have time alone. You know.. quality time. The social butterfly will argue that conversations could continue in IMs if that's the case, but I counter.. why should I have to for you on my land? I don't anyone but me and the one I'm with owning that land. I don't recall anywhere in the books saying "While subscribed to SecondLife you are required to socialize and talk". For those very closed minded individuals I will let you know, there are people different than you out there. Suprising and shocking I'm sure, at this point.. but its true.

Having an option to be left alone, the one you can turn on and off as needed is a welcome and much needed addition to SL. It would help having to not slam a newcomer off the land and risk giving them hurt feelings and maybe even becoming a griefer from it.. by simply never speaking or encountering them in the first place.

Does this mean the dots will all magically vanish off the face of SL? No, some will though because some wish to be left alone for a while. If you have to search and search to find those dumb ass green dots you can't go sleep until you find, that should be a clue for you mindless, curious Georges that those dots want to be LEFT ALONE. Take the hint and come back later instead of continuing the impossible or you will be looking down the barrel of a modified pushgun with ban scripts also placed out. (ie I have never done that to this day with the exception of one griefer out of the many hundreds of guests we have had at our home.

Next up the social butterfly will be dumbfounded at why no one would want them on their land at that time. Oh well they miss out on dwell. Darn right, you think I wouldn't think of that? That is a choice and again a choice (aka Option for you who need a refresher on the definition). I'd gladly give up $250L from dwell to be left alone from everyone for a short period of time. Yes, majority of the visitors are great and welcome but everyone could use time to themselves without having being bothered, searched out, stalked, circled like vultures. If you don't believe me observe sometime. Vultures circle. So do the clueless who cant seem to find those green dots. Its a hint and should be taken that if they wanted to be found, they would be readily accessable.

Could this option be abused? Damn right it could. That's why it should be restricted to either: 1) Lifetime members only as they have been here long enough or 2) on self/group owned property with the (and again that magical word) OPTION to turn it on.

So those of you oh so fearful of all the people on the face of SL dropping off the map. Wake up and stop reading The Enquirer so much. Just cuz Elvis is still alive and living with Tupac in Las Vegas doesn't mean the rest is true.

: P

If Invisible Mode was made a feature, and someone used it for stalking/whatever, you could still see them physicaly infront of you/around you, you could also use llSensor to find them, and don't forget you could go invisible yourself and avoid them also.

Would this be harder on people than it is for some now? Obviously not.

Would Invisible Mode make you invisible to llSensor? Of course not. If anyone uses it to stalk you with Invisible Mode on you can report abuse and such. And of course they'd have to know where you are in the first place, which would be harder with Invisible Mode.

If you use an IM, and log on, and theres no one EVER on even though you added them a buddy, then people are using their Invisible Mode to "hide". But does that happen? I sure hope not, it doesn't to me.

The world will not become baron, you will not be lonely, as I stated before there will always be people who don't use it or don't know it even exists. And most of us who do use it will most likely only be using it for a few mins or so anyway.

** deleted **

I guess the point I was trying to make, was in playing devil's advocate.

I don't want us to get carried away and add in so many privacy controls that our world becomes a desolate place. I believe we should have some ways to ensure privacy (we already do have some, to an extent), I just want to interject the extreme that could possibly happen.

For example, if I'm flying around or riding in my balloon, it's great to view the landscape and the people below. I don't bother them (maybe I do 1% of the time), but it is good to see the community as a whole.

I don't deny that people need their privacy, and I respect that. I just don't want to see the world I described, in that extreme.

Julia

I totally understand your need for some quiet SL'ing

A diff thread made me realise.

Lindens offered me my old Account as a basic account FREE.

Thank you.

I logged in and found ..No IM's ..No recognition...peace and quiet.

So now I have 2 acccount -
1 - the meet and greet party dude
2 - the hidden, quiet, peaceful dude who actually gets work done in here.

So as a temp time out buy another Account. Not as good as "privacy Mode" but still ok.

I want to see a green dot if someone is approaching me. I also want to see green dots when I am flying around SO I DON'T PLOW INTO PEOPLE. Do you know how awkward that is? When you are cruising along at sixty knots, you need to know where people are in advance so you can plan to go around them.

I don't think your desire for privacy overrides my right to know when there are people in my area.

The one compromise I can see is disabling your dot on the world map, but it has to stay visible on the mini-map.

I think it does override yours as I'd question why you need to see those green dots on my land in the first place Huns. I agree the desire to see someone incoming at YOU but if its on my land, why DO you need to see it?

Flying and riding vehicles could just as easily be said "go to the sims that are made for that" just as another suggest a sim be made for privacy. Well that defeats the whole purpose doesnt it.

No one said it does. But equally, your 'right' to know when someone is in your area is no more important than our desire for privacy. You can't just dismiss the wishes of many cos it doesn't suit your needs.



Ermm.. 'scuse my being thick here, but how is this a compromise.... 'Ok, one compromise I can see to wanting privacy is that you're visible to anyone nearby'. See, that's not a compromise... that's exactly the opposite of what we're requesting.

And to Davo - why should I have to make a second account to have some quiet time?! I want to be ME and have some quiet time! and why the hell should I be denied that?!

What the hell is so wrong with wanting some privacy, people? Jeez.... you'd think we just asked for the chat functionality to be removed.

EDIT for a bit more of a rant... Just for clarification, and of course, I can only speak for myself here because I wouldn't presume to speak for the community as it appears some feel they have the right to do, but I'm REALLY unlikely to be wanting to set myself private and invisible while hovering in public view in Huns or anyone elses potential flightpaths...

Most likely I'd be in a build, underground or in a skybox. All I ask is that I can do this WITHOUT MY GREEN DOT so that the dicks that think it's funny to gatecrash an obviously private meeting have a harder time tracking you down to do it. If the doors are locked and the blinds are down, it is NOT cool to slide yourself into the room on a box.

Of course, if this were fixed... so that an avatar couldnt just position themselves thru solid matter, this wouldn't even necessarily be an issue.

I just don't see what the damned problem is with letting people have a bit of privacy if they want it. And any suggestion that the world is gonna be devoid of green dots is just stupid. If I even used a privacy mode for 5% of my time in SL I'd be surprised.

Rant over. Please go back to whatever you were doing. Which was telling us why it's wrong for us to want some privacy because it might inconvenience you, as I remember.

I question why your perceived right to privacy overrides my perceived right to know when someone is in my area. What if you're someone I'd prefer not to deal with, and I know where you live? If I'm in the area, and I see a green dot there, I can steer clear. In fact, it has happened before that I wanted to avoid a certain area if there were people in it, but I wanted to explore other stuff nearby if there weren't. Under your system, *I* lose *my* privacy. Sometimes I don't mind talking, and I'll fly near people to see whether I know them. Other times I don't want to talk. If I fly by someone "invisible" they may card me, shout to start a conversation, etc. I don't want to deal with that.

You COULD opine that we should ghettoize vehicles, but what of it? I hardly have to be riding a vehicle to blunder into someone. It makes it more likely, of course, particularly if people are "invisible" on their own property. Again, I want to know if I might be entering your vicinity. Yes, even if you are on your own property. I, the traveller, have the same right to privacy as you, the homesteader.

And I will say it again... I think it would be acceptable to allow people to opt out of being represented on the world map. Just not the mini-map.

Turning off the green dot is OK with me. If you're going to be grumpy if I find you, I'd rather not find you

Thanks for making my point for me.

Actually, it's not. Someone bored who pulls up the world map isn't going to see you. They have to come within range for that. If I'm in De Haro and you're in Chartreuse, I don't have an overriding need to know about it. But if I'm in Chartreuse, looking for a little quiet time, I think I deserve to know when I might be going near you, just like you deserve your quiet time. Know why? Because YOU, invisible on your land, may DISRUPT MY QUIET TIME. I don't appreciate this universal assumption that I'm automatically a party crasher, just 'cause I want to know if there are people in my vicinity. By the way, I would support opting out of the world map thing regardless of whether you're on your land or not. I don't think it would serve the common interest to discriminate by land ownership.

What I'm saying is that my right to privacy during travel, and of course my desire to avoid awkward situations by blundering into someone's private get-together at 80 miles an hour, is not overruled by your right to privacy while on your land. Ergo, there is insufficient cause to change that behavior.

For the "not wanting to run into someone I don't like when exploring builds around their home" problem, you could just as easily set your self invisible, then they couldn't see you either unless they go hunting at that time or whatever. I don't see how that hurts it anymore than how it is now. As of now if you see a green dot at a house that is the house of someone you don't like you could say "oh thats them" but it may or may not be them, you don't know untill you go there and Alt Zoom or something to see if it is them, then you can move out of the area and not worry about talking to them. With invisible you could see a green dot was there, set your invisible on, and not have to worry about them finding you unless they're looking for someone, sure they could set themelves invisible, but its basicly the same thing if there is a green dot there and youdon't know its them, you'd have to alt zoom to see if they are really there or not.

Any problem with running into someone you don't like is resolved by setting yourself invisible too. The only problem is if you run into them face to face, but they could do that now anyway. For example say if you're avoiding their dot, they see a green dot somewhere on their map and decide to go visit it face to face, they track you down by seeing where you are and you have to deal with them. Theres less of a chance of running into someone you don't like if you are invisible.

You could counter act this with "Why should I have to go invisible to avoid someone?", well you don't, you don't have to purposely avoid exploring a sim to avoid someones house you don't like either, being invisible will most likely give you more freedom to explore where you want when you want.

As for running into people while flying, I personaly have never had this happen, so I see little problem with avoiding someone by dodging them as they come within my view, its just the same as dodging a wall or a tall build, but then again I don't go at amazingly fast speeds either.

I can't think of a way to get around that problem, but basicly you'd have to avoid people like you do tall builds that pop out of no where. Your chances of hitting someone dead on seem very low to me.

Not saying your point is of any less value or that its not valid, just that I can't think of a way to get around it. llSensor would still work, you could rig up something with that, but of course then the question is raise "why should i have to do extra coding?" and the only answer to that I have now is "so i can have the feature i want" and thats not a very good answer.

The point I'm trying to make here is that my privacy as a traveller is worth the same as someone else's privacy as a stationary avatar. I have a legitimate interest in knowing the locations of people when I am flying around, whether it's on an aircraft or with a jetpack (and I do a lot of both.) I have found myself entangled near other avatars when I wasn't paying attention to the map. It's awkward for me and I assume they don't like it either.

In order to support the claim that the system should be changed, you must provide evidence that the change would provide the greatest benefit to the most people without stepping on existing rights. You can say that I can go invisible while I'm flying, but that totally fails to address my desire to avoid bothering people (and avoid being bothered by them.) It would only mean that they wouldn't see me coming, which would make the situation even more awkward.

So people come and poke around when they see your green dot. Guess what? They poke around when they see mine too. If I'm not feeling chatty I either ignore them (i.e. go AFK or pretend I'm not paying attention) or teleport away. Some see me while I'm travelling and they want to talk. This is not really too different from your own situation with people going onto your property. If I fly by someone, and they're on their property, and I can't see their dot, you've just taken away my ability to actively avoid unwanted contact. I can see their dot long before they can see me onscreen. It lets me plan a course around them. Without that, the risk of an unwanted random encounter increases. I don't think someone's desire to be totally invisible overrides my desire to know if there is someone around.

for one i think the rights of the property owner *ALWAYS* over-rule the rights of the wanderer. You're wandering on land *THEY* own. if they wish you not to see them that takes precidence over you as the explorer's desire to see them there.

Now i think there could easily be a note that the land itself IS set to privacy (a symbol such as a crossout circle around an eye or somethin similar right next to the no script and nobuild for example) so that you could be alert that there may be someone nearby on their land that you cannot see would probably be okay.


but seriously... if im on my land, and i do not want you to see me there on either the world map, the local map, or search... thats a pretty damn fundamental thing that just about EVERY mu* has had for AGES (not graphcal in mu*'s obviously, but the option to opt-out of locator programs and the 'where is everyone' lists)

Kris

I wasn't saying you HAD to get a second account. Just that as a temporary measure it gives a LITTLE bit of privacy.

I am all for each person's right to privacy ... I endorse this "appear offline" mode on your own land.

I endorse toggling of User online/offline notifications

I endorse being able to flag Calling Cards so that IM's can be shitched off on Groups or individuals.

Huns

You need to see green dots to avoid people when you are zooming ? I drive a car and the worse thing for me is unrendered buildings ..Bump Oops I have flown in a window !!!

I'd just hope people appreciate the friends they can be mnissing out of by being invisible....

Everysingle person I have met in SL that I call a friend I have met by Hunting Green Dots

A lot of people do not attend Events by Choice or Time Slots.

If I can control it my Green dot will always be on ...

Says who?

Seriously. What justification do you have? Precedence is an authoritarian and therefore circular argument. I require a valid justification. I say my right to avoid being bothered by you is just as important as your right to avoid being bothered by me. By implementing these suggestions, you'd be taking rights away from me so that you could have more rights for yourself. I hope you understand why I'd feel put out by this.

If anything, you're already at an advantage, since you have powerful land controls, kick-all tiki, etc. All I have is radar, which only goes out to 96 meters. Other travellers don't even have that.