Not For Resale Permission

I would like to have a new permission in addition to the current transfer, copy, and mod. I would like to implement a Resale permission, that when left unchecked, makes it so that the next owner can transfer the object, but must do so freely. This restriction would also apply to objects that contain other object that are No Resale. This would make it easy to release stuff into the public domain. And it would prevent people from selling the Linden prefab homes for 200 L$ each. Does anyone else agree or have a better solution to the ever-growing problem of stealing another's creations?

I second this. Please separate the "Resale" and "Transfer" permissions.

third

fourthd

fifthed

sixthed

Yep, although one suggestion out there already is to split the resell/give away box into 2 seperate entities, one of which must be checked for transfer.

Siggy.

Siggy didn't say seventh so...

Seventh
Eigth <- ?

One it someone here that droped a NC on me inGame as a follow up from the Retailers Event?

Can't get inworld at the moment...

If so i will get back to ya later today...

Returning thread to


Eighthed

&

Ninethed

You: Hey, wanna buy this super duper airplane?
ABC: WHOA that looks AWESOME! How much?
You: Gimme $500 and it's yours.
ABC: Sure man.
ABC has paid you $500
You have given ABC SupaDupaPlane (nocopy) (nomod) (noresale)

Worse than that...

default
{
  money (key buyer, integer amount)
  {
  if (amount==500) llGiveInventory(buyer, "SupaDupaPlane");
  else 
    {
    llGiveMoney(buyer, amount);
    llSay(0,"The price for SupaDupaPlane is 500");
    }
  }
}

To be honest, your blatant disregard for civil liberties appalls me. Imagine a world where you would be arrested for having a garage sale, because reselling the items you legally bought with your hard earned money was illegal. Why, let's ban EBAY! People there are RESELLING THEIR ITEMS!
Only in america...

Eggy stop selling SupaDupaPlanes.

Honestly I like this idea. Giving people more control over their builds.

People will scam any way they can. None of the permissions today stop scamers.

I endorse a Resale Permission.

I elventh it. Sure if you buy it in the hand me your money, I had you item way you will sell less AND the buyer might remember that the person they bought the item from has a different name than the creator so when they want a 500 dollar refund for a 1 dollar plane and I swear I didn't sell them my 1 dollar plane for 500 they have a better chance at remembering who did.

And people who need to resell free stuff don't know how to script, that is why they are reselling free stuff because they can't make stuff themselves.

Well, the permissions are going to be revamped soon. I think it's a safe bet that you wont get this flag specifically, since LL is just going to dump the permissions code and implement creative commons licenses. CC can be used to restrict commercial utilization of your work:
http://creativecommons.org/license/
How and if they are going to enforce these contracts remains to be seen. I kinda get the idea that LL doesnt want to be bothered with these issues, and would prefer it if people used the existing legal framework to enforce contracts. However, since most people dont have the resources to pursue legal action, SL would become a de facto anarchy
Kinda like how portugal works hehehehe

It is STILL not addressing the problem with textures.

Although my solution fell on deaf ears in this fourm. If we are going to request ideas to fix permissions lets cover all the problems..

I negative 1th this. Like Eggy said, it's too frickn' easy to get around. You don't even have to try hard. Person-to-person sales don't have to use the Buy option, and vending machines will just ignore this. The only form of transfer that this would prevent is floor model sales. And with prims being a limited commodity for any shopkeeper, vending units are more and more popular.

Now if I make a whole line of Primie Babies(TM) and sell them al $19 each, but only for a limited time... There's going to be a second-hand collecters market where the prices are higher. No biggie. It could even help MY sales. People will want to get in early before the prices go up, and buy direct.

Manufacturers almost NEVER sell direct to the public anyway, they sell to retail stores. In SL, we've cut out the middleman, but now you want to cut out the end user too?

As long as the objects aren't Copy-OK AND Transfer-OK, the most people can do is buy one from you and sell it at a higher price. It's not like we don't have records of sales. You can tell if the same person keeps buying copies of your SuppaDupaPlane for resale, and stop selling to them if that bothers you.

But it doesn't hurt you finantially... You still got your initial price for every item you sold. And if you think it can hurt your reputation in some way... Well, if you bought a Poleil PocketFisherman at a yard sale for more than it's worth, would you hold Mr. Poleil for that? Better to aim your grief at the neighbor that overcharged you.

Furthermore, Philip has stated that he doesn't even like the current no-transfer flag, but added it because the bulk of the community requested it, and it wasn't too hard to implement. Whereas, due to the ease with which people could stroll around a no-resale restriction, making it enforcable would NOT be a simple task.

It just... won't... work.


(Make that a negative 2nding. This would be a waste of Linden programmer time better spent on many, many other issues.)

Newbie:Hi
Me:Hello
Newbie: I just bought a house from you and when I tried to change the textures all the windows disappeared.
Me: Thats because the windows are part of the texture, one sec I will give you another.
Newbie: You mean I can't have my own texture AND windows?!
Me: Well I can add windows to your texture but I will have to do it later.
Newbie: Nevermind then, I just want my money back.
Me: Okay, which house did you buy?
Newbie: The $2000 one.
Me: I don't make a $2000 prefab.
Newbie: It has your name as maker.
Me: *thinking someone used one of my doors or something and she was just reading the wrong thing* TP me
Me: *of course it was mine, my 425 one* Where did you get this?
Newbie: It was for sale in some lot.
Me: I don't sell my house at this price, you need to check your account history and foind out where you got this.
Newbie: I don't know how, are you gonna give me my money back or not?
Me: I don't have your money, you overpaid someone else.
Newbie: You are so rude, and you cheat people *neg rates me and runs*

I IM her and tell her that I am still at her house and I will use it to neg rate her back if she doesn't remove my neg rating. She does. Later I checked to see if she has ever bought that house from me and maybe she was just scamming. Nope, never had. But that headache was well worth it to support someone's right to have a yard sale. Aren't yard sale prices supposed to be cheaper than the original cost?

This is the LOGICAL thing.

But like Kasandra, I've had people still hold me responsible.

While I'm not personally a fan of the idea of a No-Resale flag (seems to limiting and RIAA'ish), what about a "Maximum Resale Price" configuration option?

If the problem is people overcharging for free or cheaply bought items during resale, just limit the amount of L$ an item could be resold for.

Again though, I don't actually endorse this idea. Just like in RL, sometimes people overcharge for things.

Another option would be to have an "original sale price" persistant property that gets set the first time an item is sold, and can never be reset. Then someone could just examine an object to ensure it hasn't been unnecessarily marked up (of course this wouldn't work with some of the vendor scripts, as you'd actually have to have access to the item to view its properties).

Good suggestions, I wouldn't mind the max resale either...

What about an option such as "The Lowest Price This Item Is Currently Available Is: (amount)" but then that would require some database that checks all names objects somehow and gets the lowest price.

Honestly, *all* and *any* scaming is possible in *any* way no matter what permissions you set, a scamer isn't going to tell you that the 5000 L$ house is no copy no mod today.

Sure it would be nice to have no scamming, but it happens today and will happen tomorrow.

In my opinion the good that a No Resale permission would bring outweighs the bad.

Personaly I'd be happy if SL was a free share market with no permissions at all and everything was open, but thats not the case.

Look, if people are reselling your stuff at a higher price and getting away with it, it just means you have to start charging more money for your products
If someone whines, give them a hefty discount, and they will love you for that.

Eggy morality. Gotta love it.

If your concern is that people are confused about who exactly has ripped them off what you reall want is something like a "Last transfered from" field in addition to a creator field.

You set the price you want to receive to compensate you for your work. Once you get that how is it any of your corcern what others do with it? So long as you are still selling those creations for the same price anyone else can stop by and obtain the same pricing. People paying higher prices is really nothing more than a failure to advertise enough.

Someone paying more is not paying more for you creation, they are paying for the convenience of not buying it from you.

One option for dealing with scammers is a SL-version of the Better Business Bureau, sort of an extension of the ratings idea but specifically applied to vendors.

Players could lodge complaints against vendors, and the vendors could be given a chance to resolve the issue (just like with the real BBB).

Then, when considering buying something from a vendor, we could just check their BBB record.

I'm not a fan of over-restrictive object permissions, because they really don't help to stimulate the SL economy. Buying/reselling objects helps to keep L$ flowing around, and appreciation-of-value is an important aspect of any economy (think of art, collectors items) that should really be a part of SL.

Edit: Something like this wouldn't even necessarily have to be added specifically by the Lindens. It could conceivably be done using LSL scripting (and maybe XML-RPC for offsite centralized/persistant ratings/etc storage).

Oblique, something like that is in the process of being set up.

Search under groups for RATE

I concur. I've made most of my lindens selling real estate by negotiating aggressively low prices then hyping up the land to the waves of new people coming in. This isn't immoral or abnormal behavior, it's an economic system balancing itself out.

If someone buys a free item and realizes later they could have gotten it for free, well maybe next time they will shop around a little more, and choose not to do business with the person that screwed them over. They should also be inclined to tell their friends about it, and maybe a BBB system in SL. But merchants limiting everyone else's freedom of second hand market isn't the answer.

This also doesn't address derivative works. I sell an item in my store, and I noticed the merchant down the hall from me bought one, textured it up really nicely and is reselling it at a markup. Good for him! It's not my place to say "hey you can't improve my stuff and resell it, I want 100% control over my market!!!"