Major suggestions please read carefully

Hi,

I am currently a new member who's been playing SL for about 4 days now. I have found some great features, faulty features and no features at all. I'll go down the list and explain in detail. Oh, and I'm a lifetime member at "THERE" so I'll be doing a little comparison.

Most important feature that helps SL grow.
1. Preview clothes offline. How come SL has not come up with a software for clothe developers to download from the website and use to preview their newly developed clothes? I find it quite difficult to preview the line of close I make which cost me a bundle to upload and preview on myself. It's also difficult to run around in a girls body when people know your male just to model my clothes. I believe this is a very important feature for SL.

"THERE" allows it's members to download a software so that making clothes won't be as difficult and pricey. I suggest you make this a priority feature for SL.

2. Interactions - I know SL is working on an interaction feature that will allow members to shake hands, hug, kiss and so on. We need to know what exactly the features will contain and if there are mature features and PG features that can be used in different areas. Example: If your in a mature area you can right click on a person and be able to use interactions that pertain for adults while in PG you get a shaded feature that doesnt allow you to do that. I feel that interactions are among the popular and heavily needed in games like SL, THERE and TSO. I understand the difficulties of interacting different size characters, but that shouldnt stand in the way. Just like real life, a skinny person is able to hug a large person why not in SL? So what's so hard about that?

3. Transportation - Flying around is a little bit fictional in SL. I understand it's the easiest way to travel. Why not add vehicles with roadways for users to drive to their destination and park their vehicles. What would make it more exciting is that the user has a limit in gas.. If you are running out of gas, you can go filler up and wala, the owner of the gas station just got paid. That would be another profession for someone to use in SL. Planes would also be a great feature and they should all run on gas. Give features to it like the engine fails so you have to go buy parts for it in order for the vehicle to run again. What do you know, the parts you buy from comes from JOE who owns a auto body shop. CHA CHING, JOE just got paid. You feel were I'm coming from. Now you ask, will this be in first person mode? Of course, that's what makes the scenery exciting. It's like driving in reality but in the virtual world. Pimp your own vehicle and have a leaders board for the best vehicles. Someone can even throw car shows.

4. Control - I'm very sorry to say, the controls of the game are hidious. My character feels like he's drunk and most of the time turns sideways while walking. I think that you should touch up the movement of the game and make the players walk more smoothly like "THERE". Now I understand that "THERE" uses a different type of engine which is FLASH. But you guys are using a CGI style graphics which would mean ideas are endless and would look more better and smoother. I feel that the women walk better then the men do..

All around - This game is awesome and there for not call it a game anymore.. I call SL my VL= Virtual Life which clearly competes with "THERE". But....Advantage goes to there because their features seem to be more up to date and keep you busy 24 hours around the clock. I'm tired of listening to people tell me they are bored from SL at night when nobody is logged in. So what happens to them? They end up logging into "THERE" until the next day.

Maturity - Some might question this but others praise it. Why add a maturity level when you can add filters? Are you planning on having a sexual world were people can have sex and run around naked with strip clubs and escort services in the neighborhoods? I think that would bring the reality level up a huge notch and it would attract many of the adult world into SL. I have heard so many rants about TSO and THERE that they don't allow adults to act their age and do the things that adults do..

I know your not trying to promote sexual explicit features in your game because of the younger crowd. Remember this, your profit comes from the adults who feel they are respected in games. Video games are still for the younger generation and yet they have to go to their mommies in order to get approval for the game. I still doubt parents would let their children play an online game that's close to reality especially one that has DEMONS running around with cigarettes in their mouths and tattoos on thier bodies.

You put mature and PG on your game, and now your expected to give the adult world the things they want. If you don't plan on doing that, then just end the mature sims, and use filter for swear words like THERE does.

I love this game and feel that a lot of work needs to be done. I'm not too keened on the thought of PG because it attracts younger kids who act stupid and kill it for the rest of us.

More professions and more events would make us happier. Good luck with the future development of this game and you have already drawn me to be a full member. I hope you take the time to read this and reply to it Lindens.

Deeds Greenacre aka Mr Deeds

Simply put, dont mention THERE onm thease forums, it sucks and we dont want to talk about it, however alot of people want the offline clothing and avatar tools too.

I'd also like to see some sort of scripting language, and a prim creation system and a collision/physics system. You know, like "THERE" has.

Please get a move on. Thank you!

ok, lets see...



Clothing can be made from provided templates and either PS, PSP or Gimp. Why reinvent the wheel? As for price, no RL $ required and shirts here are like L$10-200. Not T$10k.



These are coming, as are custom animations. Will you be able to customize animations in There?



There ARE vehicles in game. From bicycles and skateboards to hovercraft, taxis and hoverboards. Dont like the selection? Then make whatever your heart desires. OH! And yes, at a fraction of the cost you'll find There.



1.1 addresses some of the movement "issues" as will custom animations. Havok 2 will also be coming. Let me see... Flash vs Havok.. hmmm



Dont see what you want? Create it. This isnt a spoon fed environment.



SL is about CHOICE. If I want to fight, be killed, cuss like a sailor and see 'mature' items (ie the PoG), I go to a mature sim. If I don't want this, I go to a PG sim. I see CHOICE as a better.. erm choice, that filters and restrictions.

I agree with Misnomer on everything she said. *clap*

Oh, in my nearly 10 months of SL, I haven't found myself bored once. I was, however, bored in There within 5 minutes, after someone told me how I can't make T$ and all that stuff. Blah!

Ease up guys, cut him some slack.

Now I agree with Misnomer. Applause!

Ok you can tighten it again now.

Most of the stuff you mention as missing either isn't or could literally be created by players. But what really stumps me is "more events"!

At prime times I must get between 5-10 event notifications just during the time I'm logged on for... Heck there's so many events sometimes I get annoyed with the IMs about them...lol This is a good thing and I think it's fantastic how involved the Lindens are with the world itself.

At non prime times yeah there isn't many players (although I can't imagine how ANY online game is just as fun with hardly any players on) but I don't see how SL is different from any other game during non peak times. Actually, I can--it's alot better. Personally I still find myself having to choose from a huge list of "TODOs" in my personal project list, even during non peak hours. As far as attracting adults I think this game does a much better job of attracting "technical" adults (programmers, graphic designers, 3d modelers, etc) than other games would. And that helps a lot.

Ok guys, calm down, let's try not to get defensive here! We all know what game is the best, this guy just simply hasn't been able to understand that yet

But uhhh, yeah, what Misnomer said

Ya know, this is probably a troll, but I have to reply anyway. Call me a sucker for argument.

Hi,

From: someone

Most important feature that helps SL grow.
1. Preview clothes offline. How come SL has not come up with a software for clothe developers to download from the website and use to preview their newly developed clothes? I find it quite difficult to preview the line of close I make which cost me a bundle to upload and preview on myself. It's also difficult to run around in a girls body when people know your male just to model my clothes. I believe this is a very important feature for SL.

Why would SL need a separate program to make clothes? It's just a texture... open up the template (provided on the website, btw) in photoshop or paint shop pro, etc... and save it as a tga file. The end.

By the way, $10 is hardly a bundle of money... doesn't it cost 5000 or so in There?




that's a negative. Clothes are easy as pie if you have any knowledge of a graphics program. If you don't... well, sorry, maybe you shouldn't be making virtual clothes then.


First off, who's "we"? Secondly... gestures really shouldn't be overidingly important... there's so much else to do in SL than sit around and chat about the weather. Or kiss your "significant other" or cyber-partner or whatever blows your dress up.

SL is a different beast than There and TSO because it truly empasizes creativity rather than random chatting. If you just want to chat... you're missing out on 90% of the world.

From: someone

3. Transportation - Flying around is a little bit fictional in SL. I understand it's the easiest way to travel. Why not add vehicles with roadways for users to drive to their destination and park their vehicles. What would make it more exciting is that the user has a limit in gas.. If you are running out of gas, you can go filler up and wala, the owner of the gas station just got paid. That would be another profession for someone to use in SL. Planes would also be a great feature and they should all run on gas. Give features to it like the engine fails so you have to go buy parts for it in order for the vehicle to run again. What do you know, the parts you buy from comes from JOE who owns a auto body shop. CHA CHING, JOE just got paid. You feel were I'm coming from. Now you ask, will this be in first person mode? Of course, that's what makes the scenery exciting. It's like driving in reality but in the virtual world. Pimp your own vehicle and have a leaders board for the best vehicles. Someone can even throw car shows.

ArghARGHARGH!!!!... did you even go into the game at all?

Did you not notice the multitude of vehicles around here? Skateboards, flying contraptions, blimps, hoverboards, jeeps, ships, tugboats, spaceships, cars, trucks... bikes... come on.

If you can dream it, you can build it vehicle-wise. We don't need roads at all. That's the beauty of it.

Adding in gas requirements and breaking parts would just add unneeded stress. What fun is it to refill at a gas station? I sure know I'm not creaming my jeans every time I pull into the BP station to get some more unleaded.

Car shows have happened in the past... you can even race them. Truth be told though, I'm not so sure the physics engine is ready yet for full-scale driving cars. I could be wrong though.

From: someone

4. Control - I'm very sorry to say, the controls of the game are hidious. My character feels like he's drunk and most of the time turns sideways while walking. I think that you should touch up the movement of the game and make the players walk more smoothly like "THERE". Now I understand that "THERE" uses a different type of engine which is FLASH. But you guys are using a CGI style graphics which would mean ideas are endless and would look more better and smoother. I feel that the women walk better then the men do..

If There uses Flash, I can understand why it's so limited.

Walking is an issue, but give it time...

From: someone

All around - This game is awesome and there for not call it a game anymore.. I call SL my VL= Virtual Life which clearly competes with "THERE". But....Advantage goes to there because their features seem to be more up to date and keep you busy 24 hours around the clock. I'm tired of listening to people tell me they are bored from SL at night when nobody is logged in. So what happens to them? They end up logging into "THERE" until the next day.

what features do you speak of? Dune buggies? huh. Didn't know that was top-shelf tech.

And isn't There only open for a few hours each day?

From: someone

Maturity - Some might question this but others praise it. Why add a maturity level when you can add filters? Are you planning on having a sexual world were people can have sex and run around naked with strip clubs and escort services in the neighborhoods? I think that would bring the reality level up a huge notch and it would attract many of the adult world into SL. I have heard so many rants about TSO and THERE that they don't allow adults to act their age and do the things that adults do..

What if we don't WANT a high reality level? In line iwth your gas idea... what if we want to escape reality? I've always compared SL to the movie "What Dreams May Come", except there's less death and suicide and hell and all that

What, exactly, are you referring that adults do? They sure don't log into SL and virtually pick up virtual people and virtually do them... that's just silly. 12 year olds do it.. I've seen it on TSO, it's not pretty.

From: someone

I know your not trying to promote sexual explicit features in your game because of the younger crowd. Remember this, your profit comes from the adults who feel they are respected in games. Video games are still for the younger generation and yet they have to go to their mommies in order to get approval for the game. I still doubt parents would let their children play an online game that's close to reality especially one that has DEMONS running around with cigarettes in their mouths and tattoos on thier bodies.

your point, exactly? oh no, demons.. truly shocking. There ought to be a LAW!!! robble. No, there ought to be responsible parents. SL is for people 18 years and older anyway.

From: someone

You put mature and PG on your game, and now your expected to give the adult world the things they want. If you don't plan on doing that, then just end the mature sims, and use filter for swear words like THERE does.

Ok, you can leave now. Seriously. If people like you ran the show, I'd set fire to my SL house and cancel my subscription.

From: someone

I love this game and feel that a lot of work needs to be done. I'm not too keened on the thought of PG because it attracts younger kids who act stupid and kill it for the rest of us.

You seem to be killing it for me just fine, thanks.

From: someone

More professions and more events would make us happier. Good luck with the future development of this game and you have already drawn me to be a full member. I hope you take the time to read this and reply to it Lindens.

What, uh, professions are you lacking? Scripter, builder, architect, interior decorator, writer, editor, publisher, bartender, club owner, revolutionary... that's alot of jobs, and that's just off the top of my head.

And there's about 20 events a day... that's alot, man. Come on now. And if you don't like it, organize your own.

Yes, I know this was probably a troll, but I still had to debate the points. Sorry if I fed the trolls

Lordfly

I should add, for the 9876675th time, if you are NEW here, please do us the COURTESY of getting at least MILDLY acquainted with the game and its inner workings instead of coming to the forums and lengthily demonstrating your level of ignorance.
Some people here read every single post, namely me, and its a bit annoying to read time and time again the same tired old suggestions, or to see suggested features that are already in the game, or are incredibly unrealistic demands.
If you are new please make friends with the veterans and run the idea through them first instead of decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio of this forum.
The more crappy posts the Lindens have to wade through the less likely they are to find the useful and reasonable suggestions among them.
And yeah, dont mention That Other Game, we viscerally hate the crap out of it

Pheeew...!!! I felt the sting on these last few posts..!

As far as the clothing previewer goes, I can give our SLers a little clue . . .it's basically just a previewer that shows the clothing in 3D on a pre-designed body that you can turn to different angles to see how it shows up. I designed clothing in THERE when I played as well and the previewer is *not* all that useful -- not any more useful than the templates. You can still get things not matching up, etc. Besides that, the previewer is absolutely necessary in THERE because it costs anywhere from 5,0000 to 11,0000 T to upload a clothing texture just for "preview" by the There staff, who makes you wait for weeks to get clothing "appproved." I once made a custom T-shirt for someone, and it took the There staff an entire MONTH to "approve" it. Which meant he waited around that long for me to get the shirt to him. It took me five minutes to make the t-shirt -- t-shirts are easy. Once it's approved, you have to then pay There "wholesale" costs on every piece of clothing you sell. Want to sell a tank top? You are going to be charged 800 T just for the privelege of selling it -- then you also must pay for the "auction listing" on their auction service. Want to advertise your clothing? You can pay 10,0000 T to get a bumped up link on the front page of the auction service. And every bit of that money goes directly into There's wallet. It is "real money" after all.

What we really need is not so much a previewer as a really excellent tutorial on clothes making for SL -- the tutorials that I've seen are lacking in their detail to be sure. For instance, I just discovered that the "back" portion of the upper body template is slightly higher on the screen than the "front" portion. This means that in order to get back detail to match up with front detail, I have to do some things that seem like they should be easier -- I have to bring the bottom of shirts up about 3 squares on my grid to get it to match with the bottom of the "front" portion of the shirt.

I would really, really like to someone to send me that "old style" template I keep hearing rumors about -- that seems to make matching of clothing easier -- I know someone knows what I'm talking about. Heck I'd pay for it.

Zana

Zana - look around inworld for the avatar texture bundle (I think you can get it at the free bazaar in Stillman, or the class area in Perry). The black templates are in that, then you can save them to disk (I've added them as a new layer to the downloadable templates). If you can't find them, IM me and I'll send you a copy.

Duh I'm dense - much easier this way...

Wow, you people picked up your knives and guns and prepared for battle. Your forgetting I'm a full member of SL so there is no rason for you to think I'm trashing it. Obviously most of you didn't understand what I wrote so I'd rather you not reply with harsh comments as action has been taken and admin/lindens have been reported.

I was told by a linden to voice my suggestion on the message board. One thing I didn't know is that I would be attacked and insulted.

There are some comments that don't make sense at all and most of you have no idea what you are talking about. If you have strong anger towards THERE, I suggest you dont reply to my topic.

Let's get right to the point.



Last time I checked, nothing was working properly as for vehicles. I rode in a vehicle with another member and boy can I tell ya how dull it was. It wasn't smooth and it kept flickering and once again, wasn't smooth. What they have planned for the future is not here now, correct?



I agree with you, I was wrong there. But, their events may not pay a lot and money is what everyone is looking for. I need money to survive. But your point is clear and correct.



Takes one day to understand SL and I have accomplished that already. Why? Because I use to be a TSO player, current THERE player, yes I said THERE and? I learn very quickly. If you had at least 1% of intellegence in your brain then maybe you would understand that my post wasn't comparing the two but simply using one as example for possible features that may be released.



Wow, Lordfly Digeridoo....I am surprised that you still continue to "RILE PEOPLE UP" as you stated in your profile. Maybe that's a sign to the admins to ban you so you don't RILE anyone up.

WE= The members of SL who have sat down together in groups and discussed this. Since my arrival I have heard nothing but rants and raves about interactions and how important they are to the SL community. The point in virtual reality is to simulation of a real or imaginary system that enables a user to perform operations on the simulated system and shows the effects in real time. Iguess that means a "second life" Oooops, that's the title of the game isnt it? GET THE POINT MICHIGAN BOY?



Once again, Lordfly tries to educate us with his knowledge. For your information, that paragraph let alone the whole freakin topic wasn't meant for you. It was directed towards devs from what I was told by a Linden in the game. Why would SL need a seperate program? Because it's freakin annoying having to upload an image for $10 about 10 times for that item. I doubt everyone can design and outfit and upload it one time and call it a day. You have to preview it and test it. So it makes life easier for us and help us eliminate errors on the clothes.

I'm not going to quote this but someone commented that THERE's program wasn't all that. Please, take your anger towards THERE and push it aside. It's a wonderful program and it helps greatly on improving your clothes. You literally see the character as if you would see them in game with the clothes on. Tell me, how is that not all so great? I used it a million times and still use it till this day.



Once again, Lordfly the debater of the year enlights us with his knowledge. I talked to a graphics designer who does this for a living and she told me that it's difficult to use SL templates and that they don't cut the clothes well that is why you see a lot of mesh on T-Shirt arms or short tang tops. You have to use a method to get rid of it and even that doesn't help. So don't try to act like your the graphics expert here. I did my search and talked to a lot of people.



Oh hey what do you know, the person that was knocking THERE"s preview is complaining on that he didnt know the back side was higher then the front. Well if you had a previewer you wouldnt have that problem and it can be easily fixed correct? I rest my case on that.

Let me make something really clear for you folks. I spoke to a linden about this topic and all your replies. I am offended and disgusted that SL would allow it's members to attack one another for merely giving out suggestions.

I told one of you guys what type of fast food you eat. Your reply was MAC, KFC, BK and Pizza Hut. MAC and BK are of the same restuarant and serve the same food. Why choose to eat both of them? Same applies to me when playing THERe and SL. It's my choice, and I feel to involve THERE into a conversation, you as a member have no right to argue that. If someone basically sits there and calls SL a trashy game and it's not worth a penny then yes, he's stupid has no idea of video games and should be destroyed on the message bard. But when someone is simply using another software as an example to improve another game, you cannot attack with insult especially on something you know nothing about. Must of you made no points while others did. If your on the message board to attack people and RILE THEM UP like Lordfly says, then I promise you, you won't be able to log on the next time you post harsh replies. I'm an admin of my own message board with over 1,000 people and they use to be at each others throats. They were delt with and the board is peaceful.

Second Life is an excellent game with shows improvements and no doubt, it will attract more members.

THERE is a great game that's really fun to play and no doubt has ALREADY attracted a lot of members.

Why do you choose to continue THERE when your on SL? Because I was a beta tester for ages now and I have been given and opportunity to be a lifetime member for $30, house of my own for a price which I can rent out and a 20Tk bonus. Why else would I stay?

If you want to know, SL is a much better game then THERE but they both have their differences. I'm totally against banning trademarks and logos. We don't pay real money for SL money to purchase these items like THERE does, so why punish US. For lordly, US means we the people of SL. In case you reply with........"WHOS US, WHOS WE, WHOS THEY."
Hahahahaha...

Be good and most importantly, act like your SL character and be nice.

P.S

Ignore that quote I made. I didn't mean to actually compre the two but to point out differences and what SL can do to improve it's game. Did I mention THERE has voice chat? Hahahahh J/K. But yes, voice chat is another thing to think of unless everyone choose to use Ventrilo?

Again, reporting people in-game for occurances on the forums.

I had a run-in with someone in Forums a while back and that person reported me and negatively rated me. The only thing that happened was that the thread we were posting it was deleted.

I think the problem, Deeds, is that many people feel very strongly for Second Life, and considering current simulated games ARE becoming a network of rivalry, people are put on the defensive when a post gives no way to anything good about the game we're playing. I can't condone anything anyone's said, but still, we should all try to have an understanding.

And furthermore, isn't categorizing someone by and rediculing someone for their homestate (the "michiganboy" comment) grounds for harassment as much as anything else that was said? Some touchy stuff going on here.

But the reporting thing? C'mon, there's better methods. I'm not sure I can agree with bringing forum arguments into the SL world.

The great thing about the Internet is that it tends to mulch the overly defensive all on its own.

God bless the e-cesspool.

"I'm totally against banning trademarks and logos."
It's the law, not the linden's policy.
Having said that, you can get away with a lot of trademark and copyright violations, both IRL and in SL... downloading music, software and movies is illegal as well and you dont see me in jail do ya?
The very reason I got a pc was because NES games were nearly unpiratable and pc games, which at the time came in a single floppy, took only a minute to copy.

Uh, I think I explained myself pretty good before about the clothing previewer thing. I used it a lot when I was in There and I'm not talking out of my arse. I've been doing digital clothing for nearly two years now -- started with dolls and expanded into other things. I've worked with both 3d and 2d formats and although I'm no expert, I'm not dumb either. I'm not saying it's a bad idea -- I'm saying that the tone of your post was such that it seemed to be negatively comparing the ease and ability of creating clothing in SL to There. And I have to say that based on playing both games, its a much easier process in SL. Waiting for the There censors to tell me that my shirt sufficiently covered nipples really got on my nerves. Waiting for them to "approve" an Alabama T-shirt after they had approved T-shirts for every other state football team in existence got on my nerves. As far as ease and ability go, well, in SL at least I *can* look at that shirt on an actual avatar within two seconds of creating it. There may have changed their previewer since I last played a bit over a month ago, but when I used it *wasn't* an avatar you were looking at -- it was a headless torso that may or may not have the dimensions of the avatar you want. I mean, there *were* some hefty Avs in There, they were just hard to find.

But, that's not why I'm posting. I'm posting to say,

Thank you for the templates!! .

Zana

Excellent. I fully await the non-letter I don't receive.



Yes, because dissent will NOT be tolerated in the Fasisct Regime of Second Life! Expression is NOT ALLOWED! *truncheons random passerby* NO RILING!



Even though it's a thoroughly weak insult, It's not very nice, and was probably meant to insult me in some way. Perhaps you should listen to your own advice and "be nice?"





Likewise.

Lordfly

Damn, this thread smells like burnt ham and astroglide! People are mad here.

... it does sound angry even though I'm pretty sure that Deeds open a can of worms that he didn't expect to. For the record, we do allow open communication on the forums, but the forum standards are written with a specific spirit in mind. Please refer to them or report posts if you feel that those standards are being violated.



-Peter

Autonomous communication makes being vicious very very easy.

I seem to be a reoccuring example, despite knowing better. I try to channel it all into wiseassedness, But yeesh. Sometimes some combination of arrogance and ignorance just makes you go kablooey all over some unsuspecting sap.

The Internet, Guttenburg, the 1920s. Blame who you will. Are we not men? Are we not devo?

um, I hope my post didnt seem angry.