Expand Land for the Landless to larger parcels

Back when I first signed on to Second Life, it was possible to buy land at L$1/mSq. These days, it's next to impossible. The Land for the Landless program is definitely a good thing, but some of us feel it isn't sufficiently far-reaching.

About a month ago, I lost a bid for about 3800 square meters to someone who A) signed up in January and B) had L$60,000 to beat me with. I don't begrudge this person - in fact I congratulated them afterwards - but come on, this is getting out of hand. I don't think people with big land allotments should be forced to buy extra L$ on GOM just to be able to buy some land. I don't mind paying more than L$1/m^2, but at the same time, I gotta work real hard to make sixty grand, you dig?

The free market approach can only work if the government is willing to step in and stop leviathans from steamrollering everyone else. Even 114 years ago, when corporate ethics were a joke (those Enron bastards would have thrived in those days), the US government was willing to step in with the Sherman antitrust act. I am not proposing that Linden Lab go RICO and sieze the assets of land barons. However, I am proposing that they give us a way to acquire land for prices that are not ridiculous. As Philip Linden himself said in another thread, altruism is necessary to the survival of SL. I look at people whose entire existence here revolves around gouging people for every last buck they can get, and I am hard-pressed to see the altruism.

Now, I am not at all opposed to having big plots up for auction, and in fact I welcome more of the same, but I really would like to see the Land for the Landless program expanded to include plots up to 4096m^2. That way, people like me actually get a fair shot, and others who don't mind paying through the nose will still be able to play ball with the land barons. It's a win-win situation.

I definitly support this!

Wouldn't have any use for it myself, but it would be nice to see.

"YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES"....etc.

I agree, 512m only supports 117 objects.

Its cool that a new player can get started out with 512m, but they quickly out grow it and have to deal with inflated prices in order to move on. Plus, they need to sell the 512m they have and its pretty hard to unload such a small plot.

I think a 1024m plot would be more reasonable, maybe even offer plots up too 2048m at a reasonable price to those wanting to expand on a 512m grant. Just recycle the plots, allow an original grant winner to move up and use the 512m plot for a new grant to someone else.

If people want more than 2048m, or whatever, they will be on their own.

Really, if we had a new sim divided into 16 parts and did this it'd probably meet demand. I'd much much rather have one large plot than multiple small ones, not much of a point in that.

While I am not against helping new folks and giving them reaon to stay... I do want to mention that when *I* was new, it took me 2-3 weeks to be able to afford enough land to plant the newbie cabin. I think that the idea for the land for the landless is to get people their start, not necessarily give them a plot for forever.

With auctions so high I'm just concerned that giving away more land will only keep the auction prices high or even drive them higher.

Also, what (I wonder) things are in place to insure that people dont get their 7 accounts and get 7 accounts worth of land at base prices? I certianly hope that that was thought of and covered.

Don't flame please, I'm mostly playing devils advocate. Hurrah newbies!

Misnomer, this is not a flame. But, I bet the land you bought after your first 3 weeks was L$3 a meter. Land was plentiful then too. And, there were a lot less people looking for land. When I started last year, there was public land everywhere, I could pretty much live where ever I wanted too.

Its just really hard to get started these days. I agree you should work to make your way, but 512m is really a pitifully small bit of land to start with. I think 1024m is really reasonable for a starter plot, sort of backing off of the idea of granting more than that.

There are land deals to be found out there, but it does take some dedication to finding them.

Hi MJ,

When I first came to SL last May, they started me out with something like L$3000. I ran around buying shades, guns, etc., and I still had enough left over to buy a plot in De Haro, and to rez the cabin there, and to furnish it - and furnish it well. These days, a new person comes in and they get 512 square meters from the LFL program... which isn't enough to do all that stuff. People have actually claimed that just having the cabin itself eats the vast majority of the allocation. Man, I had, like, a rug, a coffee table, a couch, a bunch of pictures hanging on the wall, nice lighting, a deck made out of individual planks, etc. Now you're lucky if you can even put up a cabin and maybe a throw rug, eh?

As for the effect of LFL on auction prices, that could go either way. Less land is available to auction bidders, but more is available on the open market, since some people will already have some smaller plots they'll need to sell in order to qualify. Land sellers might find it necessary to charge less in order to compete with LFL. Or, they might not, since you are going through a single person rather than trying your luck at what amounts to a lottery. (Value added, yes?)

As for people getting mule accounts, yes, it is possible. However, they'd have to pay the monthly subscription fee in order to get any land, so I don't see how enhancing LFL would change that situation. I believe LL only allows two subs per credit card number.

I am very much in favor of this idea - making larger parcels available without having to go through the auctions and patch one together.

The Island offers cover this for the really high-end purchasers, Land for the Landless covers the brand new players. We need some middle ground for the rest of us!

It works out to about 3.5$L per m^2 for Linden Lab to cover the setup costs of a new sim. My proposal is to offer large parcels of land at "full" price like this for anyone who wants them. I'd much prefer to skip the extreme frustrations of bidding on that perfect piece of land against people who couldn't give a crap which spot they get. Or worse yet, against my best friends without realizing it! It is just unnecessary pain and strife.

Lindens, give us the option to just plain reserve some sim space at 3-4$L per meter. If you don't sell it at that price, THEN send it to auction.

For an exhausting description of what I'd like to see, look here:
Sim Space Reservation

Now what Ananda is saying is something I back. I do not have rl disposable income and I'm not SL rich. I have found it near impossible to find any decent land.

Land for the landless gets new people *something* to get started but unless you want to really put out you're kind of SOL. Auctions and land barons have eliminated access to the middle class.

Im not into screwing the little guy, I was just concerned about the middle being further squeezed.

And Huns, you are correct. I wasnt considering prim limits. Anyone have any brilliant ideas that helps everyone concerned?

I'd be perfectly willing to pay L$3/m^2 directly to Linden Lab for a 4096. (If I wanted one right this second, that is.)

Same here... not looking forward to spending hours looking for a needle in a haystack, when I finally decide to.

Bigger plots would screw up the LL economy! I would say NO to this feature! If they want more land they can shell out the extra $ for GOM. But I think the fast that the Lindens give them anything at all is great. I would not want to see bigger plots go out!

BTW 512 is enough! I don't want to start seeing plots of 1024 with just a noob cabin... twice more space.. same stuff! 512 is a great way to start!

on another note, dont all new accounts except lifetime come with an initial 512 m? (I could be wrong here but that's what I thought)

I think all accounts except Basic get 512m² land grants.

I didn't include lifetime accounts because there are no new ones.

I meant as land allocation. which means the "grants" of 512 are proportional to allocation and therefore sufficient for starting players.