Mature Event Filter

Avatar B looks at the events calendar, sees small note at the bottom that they can view Mature events by clicking on a checkbox.

"Oh my goodness! Look at that! My eyes have seen the words 'Checkbox'. Egads! I'm so shocked, I'm so offended. I can't believe the gall of these people to force me to click a checkbox to see things labeled 'erotic'. I can't describe how offensive it is to me that I now know that somewhere out there exists a crowd of people having their fun at such a terrible thing as BDSM and I can't see it unless I click the checkbox. Doesn't LL know that by having to click a box they're making huge demands on my intellect and are offending the lazy and uncoordinated people? I think I'll complain about this immediately! No one should have to be FORCED to click a checkbox or in any way do something extra to see things that go on is SL that some may not personally approve of."

Geez. Sarcasm cuts both ways, and in neither case is well-regarded as a valuable debate technique

I've also got to say, it's not as if I don't go to events in mature sims - lord knows you all have seen me at some of them. I'm not a "holier than thou" type either, and respect the rights of others (said it before, will say it again - I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU).

Look at it this way. You can use debug to choose to not show trees, water, or whatever. You have the option to set your draw distance, show local light, or not. We have a lot of control over how we see the world. Your fancy particles your in love with might not even be seen by those that choose not to see particles. We have a lot of options on how we see the world. Whats so wrong with an event filter?

I will personally choose to show mature events just because I like to see whats going on all the time. Thats just me. I see no reason why people can not be able to choose to not see them and there is no reason for persecuting them if they choose not too.

Why not be able to filter any word we want with search. I would probably choose to filter "bingo", so what.

How interesting, except I have not seen you provide any numbers for your blanket statements, your fallacies, whatever you want to call them. You know what numbers I am basing it on? Compare the dwell numbers at the top locations in the mature sims to those in PG sims. Compare the land prices that M land goes for in auctions versus PG. Compare the number of mature events that are now on the schedule. I am also basing it on my knowledge of the SL community after over a year of playing SL (I originally began in January of 2003). Nowhere did I claim to be into kinky sex (although as a 27 year old male I can say that I am very open minded sexually and hardly offended by having my poor eyes see the word erotic or even giant walls of porn), I am just into the openness of this game and am tired of all of these "filters" being put in place to protect adults and censor SL. As I said, if you want a filter, fine, but the burden should be on you to filter out what you don't want - not the other way around - it should not be the default.

Cristiano

As I understand the situation, the reason that mature rated areas have historically been more expensive is their relative rarity, and the abilty to more freely express your specific interests. The areas with the largest amount of dwell tend to be in mature areas, but saying that this is due to the availablity of graphic content defeats the arguement that mature areas should not have reduced visablity on the popular places list. The idea behind this filter is not censorship of mature regions, but rather of maintaining the overall majority community standard. As has been stated here many times, mature content is a minor part of even mature regions. By your own admission the vast majority of Second Life is of a 'PG' nature.

I feel I should clarify my alternative lifestyle comment.

Even within the mature areas of SL, there is a further factionalization of sexual practices. There is no majority because there is no cohesive group that contains all users, and in many cases these cliques are horrified by others tastes. I could enjoy Role Playing "jackhammerin' Mickey Mouse in the doo-doo hole with a lawn dart as Garth Brooks gives birth to something resemblin' a cheddar cheese log with almonds on Santa Claus' tummy-tum?"* but then I and the 2 other people I find that are into that kinda thing hardly make up a majority.

This example is silly, but there are many practices that are condoned (rightfully I might add) which most other people don't want to hear about, even if they themselves practice some other fetish. I personally am offended by pet auctions, mainly because they are actually slavery auctions no matter what term you are using. I am not asking anyone to stop doing it, as much as I dislike the practice, I'm just asking not to have the fact shoved in my face. I'm also socially aware enough to realize others don't want to hear about my rodent scat fetishs and would welcome a mechinism to prevent others from having to be exposed.


*Thanks to Bloodhound gang for the paraphrase

29 going on... 29 - forever..

I disagree with anything that makes SL look more like it caters to 18 and below and political correctedness.

Filter with our minds, not with functions.

Briana Dawson

Cristiano, you really need to be more consistent. Here you say, "Enough filtering and censorship already." You express how you are "just into the openness of this game and am tired of all of these "filters" being put in place to protect adults and censor SL"...

...but yet in your *own forums* you are going on and on about how offended you are at being called "fag", and go on about how you went off to complain *directly to Philip Linden* about it.

Now, let me say first that I think that the abuse you experienced is a bad thing. Calling someone "fag" or any other epithet is not right, and should be looked down upon as an example of how NOT to act to your fellow SL'er.

That being said, you can't have it both ways. You can't go writing letters to LL in the hopes that they'll "censor" someone that's using language you don't like while at the same time telling us that we don't have the right to do so.

Sorry, I can't have a real honest debate with someone who can't be consistent on the issues.

I don't care if it's mature or not... but ever since the popular places ranking came with v1.3 there's been a huge increase in events of ALL types, and it's easier than ever to not notice an event you'd want to see in the list of "Talk talk" "dance dance" "contest" "bingo" "Grand opening" etc etc etc...

At the very least could we have some kind of icon next to the event showing: "Party", "Class", "Contest", "Grand opening", "Talk", what-have-you. These things are required when proposing the event, why not show them in the events list? (and have the ability to NOT list categories you're not interested in).

As SL grows the Events list will to. I dunno about you but I don't want to have to sift through 50 "Let's talk about belly button lint so I can get dwell points!" every time I'm lokoing for a class. (No offense intended to belly button lint afficiandos, be proud you freaky peeps! It's just not my thing.

Ah, the price of success!

As SL grows, so does the complexity.

I'm glad we even got an Event Calendar, and there are tons of things to DO, and NOT to DO!

Yeah!

Wow talk about jumping into something you don't know the first thing about. The incident of being called a fag also included personal threats against my life, and I was not the only recipient of it. That is cspecifically covered under the TOS of the system, which LL has ever right to set as it is their service. The TOS permits adult content in M sims, and also permits event descriptions that do not violate community standards. For you to compare the two is just ludicrous. Of course, so is labelling yourself the king of SL when you don't have a clue what SL is about in the first place.

Hate speech has never been permissible, adult content is -therein lies the difference. I am not trying to have it both ways. By your logic, they should include any racial slurs as well - those were actually included in several incidents too, along with degradation of women.

By the way Morse, why all the personal attacks? You actually haven't addressed the points that I made about your numbers or your logic, you felt it necessary to call my words fallacies, and to tell me I can't have it both ways because I don't want myself or my friends to be receipients of targetted hatred in SL. Try addressing what I actually said instead of attacking me personally.

I don't want you or your friends to be the recipients of "targeted hatred" in SL either. I also don't want anyone to be a recipent of "targeted smut" in the form of ads for events they may be offended by.

As for the points which you made about my "numbers and logic", I felt that Michael Foo refuted those quite well and don't have anything to add to his point-by-point response. Consider his words my own.

I've made my points and this will be my FINAL post on the matter. I see this has degenerated into a flamewar and have no compulsion to carry it any further.

Is there any thread on here that doesn't?

Seriously though Morse, I'm glad you brought this up and hope more advanced filters are coming in the future. When each user gets to set their own level of what they do and don't want to see it isn't censorship, but just another tool to make the SL experience more fun.
I'm kind of surprised that some people (all of whom I respect a great deal) are afraid of letting people have the right to NOT see things they don't want. You should have the right to say whatever you want in SL and host any kind of event (as long as it's legal and not against the terms of service and all of that) but I don't think you have the absolute right to make everyone listen.

I find this statement somewhat stupid, to put it bluntly.

(disclaimer: I use "you" a bit in the following, I don't mean you, Catherine, Although the above quip is my opinion of your, Catherine's, statement. I mean "you" as in "you who's reading this, yeah, YOU, and umm you and ...)


I do agree SL is (suppose to be) comprised of "adults". Of course even that term, "adult", is open to debate. Anywho we're all adults, fine and dandy. But I do agree with Morse. I wouldn't cry if a check box filter was implemented to help weed through things you personally have no interest in.

It is impossible to "not see" something that is directly in front of your face. What would you think if I started having events to highlight high-res imagery of human corpses in various stages/poses of demise. There are plenty of web sites and a growing fan base of such things. How about some nice glossy photos of some guy cut in half by a train.. ooh lookie, intestines. Or that guy that shot his chin, mouth, nose off. Oooh lookie, brains. Anywho, some might find imagery of violent human death disgusting (I know I do!). But if it was rampent, like "adult" events are getting, I'd bet you'd see some folks, perhaps even youself, raising the issue on the boards and with the Lindens. Just because you think some sort of event is fine content, doesn't mean I/we/she/he/they do.

SL should be, imho, even keeled. Allowing for almost any sort of content (excluding the typical racial/religious/hate...), yet not forcing it on us -- by offering a little restraint, in the form of filters. Filter's don't stop you from finding the content you enjoy. Filters do help you remove content you have no interest in. And the more questionable filters should be on by default. I don't need to prove my adultness by saying "they should be off by default, let's otherwise (real world) offensive behaviors be the norm in SL" (when's the last time you saw a strip joint next to your neighborhood/school/local church/town hall...). There's social mores (look it up) that dictate decent behavior. And currently SL seems to be bent a bit on that.

I'm no angel, that's for sure. But I'm not a f'n tard teentwentysomething either. Filters, not exclusion. Just filters. Later you can rate each other for unchecking all the norty ones, while you hot tub with norty bit textures planted on your otherwise featureless features. Which of course is modeled exactly after your real self.

Quite frankly, and quite my opinion, sexual events are about as immature as it can get. What's the draw? Giggles, closet behaviors you'd never do in RL (or maybe you do! you whipmister!). The draw, imho, is because kids (and no doubt a few "adults") get giggles from getting naked and pointing at each others norty bits (or lack thereof). I'm laughing my ass off actually over the entire thing, that's how stupid I think net+sexual_anything is. I have more respect for owners of blow up dolls (ironchef has a couple I believe).

Rx pluleeeze!,

Boso

Ah, the wonders of society. I can see both sides of this argument and I'm not going to start going on about prudes or perverts. I just want an answer to a simple question. Why is someone holding a Pet auction for example any less deserving of having a listing than someone having a Bingo event? Why should the person holding the mature event suffer a lack of exposure because someone might find the event distasteful?

If their listing conforms to the PG code then really, let people live. I believe there should be a Mature event filter which the user chooses to switch ON, not a default feature. Its bad enough that mature sims are left out of the populr places listing by default why punish owners of land on these sims further?

Tolerance is a wonderful thing, let's try and exercise some.

HH

Morse,
There are billboards that I drive past everyday that adverstise for nude or topless entertainment establishments. What should I do? Ignore them and sing along with the radio? Or dwell on it and start telling the other drivers how bad you think it is and that you shouldn't have to deal with seeing that *smut* advertised? BTW, adult themed event announcements are not *targeted smut in the form of ads* - They are event LISTINGS. Your use of the term *smut* has opened a tiny fissure in your logic and your real issues with *smut* here in SL are leaking through that crack.. They sell porno mags at the gas station fgs. Look to be offended and you will always be rewarded...

That said, I am not against a filter, just not by default please. Let people's eyes be open so they can make their own decision whether to opt out of adult event listings based upon what they see.

Hayden I'm glad you asked this question.

The person who is holding a mature content event has decided to create an activity that cannot be held in the majority of the SL world, inculding Stage 4, Rizal, the vehicle sims, Cordova, and all of the other Linden Lab held public areas.

I propose that that find feature in the UI is a Linden controled public space, and thefore should be held to the majority (as far as land area is concerned) standard by default. Certainly the ability to toggle adult content should as be easy and available as the mature region places is. The intent is not to remove or bury such content, but rather to filter offensive material from those that have no wish to be exposed.

Sexual position classes is an event for which their is a charge, making the event listing a sexual advertisment instead of an announcement. Ths puts them in the same catagory as porn spam in your e-mail.

Pet auctions are not about dogs and kittens. The fight over these auctions as mentioned in another thread is a fight over the slavery auction name. These events glorify the subservience of women in the name of raising pretend money. Another word for this activity is prostitution.

These examples are things I am personally offended by. I'm not asking for their removal, but that I not be forced to read them by default in the process of looking for activites that I may enjoy. I am using a public resource, and exposure to TOS limited content by default seems to be contrary to the spirit of those rules.



I agree whole heartedly! Long have users that have shown an interest in non-mature activities been derided and punished for their views. Tolerence of the sensibilities of others should be first and foremost in the minds of content creators.

Calling someone a "fag" is in violation of the TOS, holding Mature events is not... Calling someone a "fag' is a direct comment towards another person, with intent to harrass/insult... hosting a mature event is not...

I hope that some day you can see the difference...

"Sorry, I can't have a real honest debate with someone who can't be consistent on the issues"

Two points that you are missing here. Charging a cover charge for an event is perfectly within the TOS, and does not suddenly make the event porn spam. The positioning class (which is a lot of fun actually and not even remotely pornographic - at least the first one charges a fee to cover the cost of the items given, as well as the hosts expertise in this subject manner. I really did not expect to learn much, but I actually did. By your definition, if I charge for a class teaching people Spanish or web application development, that would be spam too. The people holding these events often get paid for them. Does that make it spam too? An event advertisement is an event advertisement, whether that event is free or not.

As far was exposure to TOS limited content, the descriptions do not violate the TOS. That is the point you seem to miss. The descriptions of the events cannot be sexually explicit. Just because you know what a pet auction is does not make the phrase pet auction sexually explicit. If they descriptions are, they violate TOS and are actionable. As they stand right now, they are within community standards and are able to displayed in the interface.

Cristiano

The difference is that language lessons or technical classes could be held in a public space. Pornographic content cannot be held in a majority of the SL world. It would be against the TOS to hold a sexual position class at Stage 4. In my post I stated that these are items that personally offend me. I'm sure that there are other activities that seriously offend others. The feature suggestion here is to extend the current rating system to all public display spaces, including the event listing. A check box to enable viewing of events in mature areas would take care of the issue.

Why does it have to be a check box to enable it, as opposed to disable it?

A checkbox to enable filters would be better then the current situation, but typically it is up to the user to seek out restricted content, rather than having to opt out of potentially offensive content.