Feedback on proposed Teleport Home changes

Why not make prison sentences for griefers? once convicted, their avi is confined in a little cell and every time they log in they are restricted to their cell. combine this with the inability to mute other people and an empty inventory. then during their sentence, everyone has access to visit the prison and publicly ridicule the griefer in his cell. The only way for the griefer to escape this is to log off. Bring back the medieval method of punishment; public ridicule while being tied up in the marketplace...

Without reading this whole thread at all, here's my feedback on this:

1. If there's anything that would make me quit this game, it is getting pushed around by people who don't want me on their land.

2. I hate getting sent home more than anything. How come it is some other player gets to decide when I am going to go home?

3. I hate getting sent away, too. Not everybody who plays this game has the latest computer. Last night, trying to shop, I got the "You have been ejected from this land" business, and it took me forever, due to lovely lag, waiting for stuff to rez to reorient myself, and find some other way to the store. It took me two tries. I should think store owners would hate this, too, as I've sometimes given up finding a store due to the people around it wanting nobody on their precious land, even if they aren't there.

4. I hate getting embedded in the landscape. This seems to happen, too, when somebody has decided to pluck me from what I was doing and plunk me down somewhere else. Then I have to relog. I also hate it when these people cause me to just crash out of the game.

5. This isn't a landscape or territory to explore so much as it is a series of little fiefdoms whose rulers want to rule not only their own land whether they are on it or not, but anybody who dares get anywhere near it. That is crummy for shopping or exploring.

6. It's also unfriendly as all get out. The game is difficult enough for newbies without having all these things happen to them by a bunch of power-hungry unfriendly residents.

7. I hate being told, "You have ten seconds to clear the area." Why? Am I going to explode? And what is the area, anyway? There's no way to know. Who the heck is telling me this, anyway, the state police?

8. I don't care what people can script. I'm even starting to not care about the entertainment people, and how the heck they (or anyone else) can get rid of griefers! Now when I stop caring about the entertainment people, I've really reached the end of my rope.

Let people put up ban lines around their property, the bloody end. If they want to put houses in the sky, either fix it so they can put lines around that, too, or let them just have to put up with the horror of maybe someone they don't know coming around.

coco

And if the sim happens to have a really bad time dialation, low FPS etc. I don't even know where I am, I get warnings and ejected, teleported, pushed away etc. immidately.

Now, tell me how many sims on SL never have bad time dialation problems, low FPS problems etc.?

at 150 meters up, where you can't see the damned LockTite warning sign

I've been trying to read the thread. Some of it interests me.
I don't like llTeleportHome(); at all. Some people use it for what I see as "no reason".
The land tools themselves suck immensely, however, and I can say this after being griefed by someone who owned land three plots away from me. Sometimes, your only option is either logging out (LIKE HELL. I pay enough per month to enjoy my land. Stop the griefer becomes my priority when I can't get someone to act), or blasting the everloving hell out of them until they realize that you're not going to take particle/push bombing with your legs spread.

If the land tools actually did their job, I wouldn't have to neg-rate anyone who uses an abusive setting on the lock-tite (or any similar) system. Give me a warning. Don't knock me out of my vehicle while I'm flying happily along, testing it. The trouble of getting back up to its height, and edit-moving it away from your overzealous script's range is enough to irritate. And don't teleport me half a metaverse away when I'm skydiving!! It's not as easy to control myself when I'm not in a vehicle or flying manually.

I doubt this is possible or even probable, but...
Why not enhance the current land features with some advanced security?
First, raise the ceiling on the boundaries. 128 meters up ought to serve enough purpose.
Next, can banned agents have their scripts shut down once they enter the banned region? I don't know if it can be done fast enough, considering the velocity of some of the weapons used, but it would help some.
Then, if a user is banned, but is walking up to the property edge to grief, can a flag be added to the ban list that says, "This user is seriously griefing. Use with caution." Toggling this flag would add a temporary buffer distance of say... 20 meters to keep this griefer back from your property line (or maybe allow you to freeze/eject beyond your normal domain). It would only last for as long as it would take a Linden to respond to the situation.

Granted, I know next to nothing about scripting, programming, etc -- I'm just a lowly user who has to pay people to even write a simple script for image cycling for her -- but even I know it'd take time to add any of these ideas, and the impact of each one has to be considered. The property near the sim edges wouldn't benefit fully from these tools, because of how the handoff is done (Sim 2, meet Araiya. She's flying through.; Why thanks for the introduction, Sim 1. I'll take good care of her.), but some of this should help -- especially the elevated ceiling for the boundaries.

jm¢¢, however. disregard as appropriate.

a 10 second post teleport delay will do nothing. like all other delayed functions it's easy to multithread. a 10 second pre teleport delay, now that I could get behind.

Read my previous posts. We're pretty much on the same page, and I discuss this in detail.

actually i think in this instance you are probably wrong about that.. the overall intent isn't to crash someone's machine, its to send people home.. the crashing is a side effect of a bad functional implementation by LL... if they can fix that side of it chances are people aren't going to design NEW targeted multi threaded send home scripts, to crash clients, since crashing wasn the point in the first place.

as opposed to functionally limited things like email checking where you do want to check email as often as possible and multi threading enabled people to do that

I don't want to be sent home PERIOD.

coco

well it is a goodf thing but what if i want to teleport home for a diffrent location will it be affected

I have several times just flying from a telehub to my destination been TP'd home. VERY ANNOYING. Most of the time I'm not paying attention to where I am and can't figure out exactly where I was when it happened. I think a 10 second warning that shows up on the screen to allow you to get around the area (by that time if you're just flying through you'll be past it anyway) would be acceptable without infringing on anyones rights. I realize there already is a delay, but there is no warning that comes up on the screen until you're actually being TP'd.

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

MT

llTeleportAgentHome is needed by isolated island sims all other attacks llLandEject and llPushObject leave the trouble maker on the sim

Both sides in this arguement have good points. Property owners deserve the right to perfect privacy when requested and innocent passer-bys deserve the right to wander about where ever they can without violence being impossed on them.

When we look at real life its easy to see how a compromise between land and property privacy and freedom of travel are reached.

1) roads and footpaths owned by the public.
2) height restrictions to what is private
3) locks, doors, walls, gates, blinds, curtains etc.

SL is fundamentally flawed in its privacy designs and we need to not argue about "to teleport or not" but instead completely rethink the very concept of public and private areas in SL.

The problem with SL is that there are no public thoroughfares from place to place. Although rather than making public roads and streets, since we can fly, lets just set a resonable height restriction past that point it becomes a public area and no teleporting, land ejecting or pushing is possible. Make this height so that flying defaults to the always safe height.

Perhaps also we can have sims where weapons don't work and others where they do. The people can migrate to areas that suit the experiences they wish in SL.

Why do security scripts exist? Because SL offers no privacy. We should not be able to zoom through a wall, door or any other barrier. We also should not be able to sit "through" a barrier. If I could lock my SL house and no one could enter or look through the walls security scripts become obsolete. We know this is possible.

Lets make SL like real life when it comes to land and property privacy. When I wish to be unseen in real life I close my blinds and I have confidence people can't zoom through my walls, suddenly sit on my sofa or slide through my wall on a wooden box.

Whilst this later idea may be too technical to implement its simple to declare above a certain height public and disable attacks (and building?).

A final thought. This whole debate has an even lower level debate to it. Should SL have weapons at all? What happens if llPushObject, llLandEject and llTeleportAgentHome are removed? Why give weapons then legislate against them?

Do we want violence in SL? Do we wan't some sims to have no agressive scripting allowed at all?

Well said. I couldn't agree more. Do away with this overly abused feature. If you live in a sim on the mainland with one of these things, just leaving your home can be a nightmare, no matter how high you fly.

Hm? I was just referring to his comments on placing such a delay prior to script execution as opposed to after. My intended message being the former.

Not sure which of my posts you're pulling this from, but since you want to discuss it, let's. I agree that crashing people is not the stated intent - indeed, I posted several messages here about how to prevent it.

Ah. Now I see where the problem is.

On multithreading: A 10-second pre-delay would make it obsolete for practical abuse (teleporting avatars home with virtually no delay). This was the jist of my message.

On multithreading as a means of crashing the client, it should go without saying that multiple requests on one avatar should be throttled at the system level to prevent this.

So I maintain that we're probably on the same page, but I'm phrasing it poorly.

*Falls over laughing!*

I wondered when somebody would point this out!

After reading this entire thread (man was this ever long), I have changed my own personal opinion regarding this feature. It's clear that some people are using this feature responsibly to combat exactly the types who use the scripts I'd rather see an end to.

Everybody stop panicing, step back and look at it as an engineering problem.

A campaign to improve security so that scripts can no longer do things against my will must start with steps like proposal 244, which calls for better privacy and security. I'm keeping my votes on that. Once steps like proposal 244 have been implemented, we can then go after these oft abused functions. Proposal 244 will eliminate the need for such security scripts, rendering arguments for easily abused scripts obsolite.

A: Implement more comprensive privacy measures. I don't want to be unexpectedly ejected from your land. I want to be prevented from entering it at all.

B: Option to be uneffected by push (and unsit) scripts, neutering the most destructive of griefer weapons and many obsolite push based scripts...Without actually removing these well used script functions.

C: FINALLY revisit THIS issue by eliminating or otherwise nerfing the teleport functions in 'safe' areas, eliminating older scripts and enforcing integrated land security tools. Perhaps, in situations where somebody is banned, they can be teleported home just once by the integrated privacy/security tools. That's entirely different from allowing a script to do this!

A delay would be nice in the short run. 10 seconds seems to be the concensus. This would make a nice quick fix, but it doesn't solve the two REAL problems on everybody's minds:

Integrated security features be implemented
Griefer weapons be nerfed

I say this again. I don't want to enter restricted areas AT ALL. There is no reason I can think of why being allowed to actually enter, then getting tossed/teleported is somehow a more reasonable solution than just not letting me onto the land in the first place.

What if the teleport home script would only activate from within the attach(key id) event and only if (id!=NULL_KEY) --- For non-scripters, that means they would only work when worn ... meaning a group member/owner is on the land...

Combined with SL security, is that enough for most people?

I say "enough" and "most people" because nothing will satisfy everybody100%

PS no script should crash clients. teleport home seems like something that would be use infrequently enough that it could be 100% buffered with nil perrformance hit (priority should be stability, not speed)