SL Data to Web

I have been at getting some sim data accessible from the web, for various other projects.

It currently is out putting in XML format:

Example:
http://zortechlabs.com/interface/sim/xml/sim/Maemilkkot

With Maemilkkot sim with hexed map data:
http://zortechlabs.com/interface/sim/xml/sim/Maemilkkot/map/true

Format:
http://zortechlabs.com/interface/sim/xml/sim/<sim name>

Currently it knows more 11,000+ sims, but it is still working on scanning them, it will take a week or so assuming everything runs smooth. It has been running several hours now and knows 1,824 parcels, accost various sims. (it is rising fast)

Additionally been working on my own user lookup/search that includes wild cards.
At this point its relatively keyless, but you can see it in action:

http://zortechlabs.com/interface/keys/usersearch/firstname/*/lastname/b*/
Everyone in the database whos lastname starts with b

http://zortechlabs.com/interface/keys/usersearch/firstname/zor/lastname/*/
Anyone whos firstname is zor.

http://zortechlabs.com/interface/keys/usersearch/firstname/A*/lastname/*/limit/50/orderby/firstname/
Anyone whos name starts with A, ordered by there first name, with a limit of 50.

The name database has been updated with a good list of keys.

And we opt-out how...?

And why would you want to op out of public available data?

In SL real privacy has never existed, if thay can see your land they can see what your doing whats on your land, sl is probably logging every conversation and selling it off to company's for market data mineing..

If people wanted to have their land found by name, they'd be listed in search. If someone wanted to know where a given resident lives your data is the perfect way of finding that out.

Mapping a name to a specific parcel(s) is as much public data as mapping a name to an unlisted number, or in other words, it's not considered public data at all.

If you were mapping and publishing the data anonymously then there wouldn't be a problem, but you actually made a conscious decision to include the owner so it's not unreasonable to expect a way for people to opt-out on a parcel and sim level.

I take it your oping out of your city assessors?
That would be more of a better comparison.

http://www.assess.co.polk.ia.us
Not only dose that site give you a list of every property in the city and who owns it, it gives everyone a layout of your house, construction, sq feet, tax information, previous owners.

Yet, that isnt considered a privacy violation is it? So why would you be so worried about your property being known to exist in SL?

This isn't really a discussion: you announced a project and then you were asked how to opt-out.

So once again: assuming there isn't already a way to opt-out, will you consider privacy implications and provide a way to opt-out of having the identifiable part stripped out, or you just couldn't care less?

If everything is on the level with what you're doing there really shouldn't be any reason for you to either withhold the name of the bot so that it can be estate banned by those who wish to (it's likely in violation of Dreamland's covenant for one), or let parcel owners opt-out of having their key published alongside the parcel data.

The islands may get an op out.

But in general this is more of a developer tool, it dosent pull the owners name, it pulls the owners key. Unless you except everyone to know your key by heart. I know I dont know your key. I dont even know my own key.

So, why shouldn't we just ban you and all your alts and bots from our estates? What are you doing thats a benefit to us? Please explain.

Keep in mind: I don't tolerate land bot land theft in my estate. I've repod land scammed from people with land bots before and I will keep doing it, and I really enjoy orbiting, blitzing, and turning on damage and killing land bots, especially the ones that show up nude.

Well what isnt a benefit?

IntLibber Brautigan, you sound like you think every bot with in SL is a landbot and everyone is out to get you. And chances are if its nude, its not a bot. Im sure your vary proud of your newbie kicking skills that make life hell for all newbies.

And another thing land bots cant commit theft in the first place, as the parcel has to be marked for sale. So your calling paying a price set by the seller theft. If thats theft im a movie star.

This bot is a data mining bot thats. D - A - T - A space M - I - N - I - N - G.
For you who dont know what that is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_mining

This simply means that in this state there is no real benifit, nor is there any drawback. It is simpily data, that anything and everything could possibly get useful information from.

Want to know who owns the most land in SL?
How has the most land for sale?

How much main land is there?
Average prim use per sim?
Avatar traffic per sim..
Busiest sims at the time of scanning?

How much land dose LL currently own?
How much land is in SL all together?

Whats the percentage of people who use ban lines?

All those questions could possibly be awnsered and more could be done.

How about replacing the linden map with a map that includes parcel data?

Or maybe allowing objects to figure out parcel sizes that they couldnt get quickly because they would have to check every 4 meters of the hole sim to figure out the parcel size, with something like this, it wouldnt be necessary.

The applications are almost endless.

Getting keys is trivial with several name2key databases floating around (http://www.moopf.com/name2key.php).

It would also be trivial for you to map every owner to another unique, yet meaningless, identifier for anonymous data-mining, so again there has to be a specific reason as to why you want it to contain the actual key.

The fact that you persist in remaining secretive about the bot, or reluctant to add an opt-out scheme is also curious.

Ah, but you see thats a name2key database, not a key2name database.

As far as I know there is not a key2name database thats readily acessable besides the one LL keeps. Not that it would be to hard to make a key2name database out of a name2key database.

And why im not doing an opt out:
Incomplete data will make this useless. Ill have to have a page listing who opted out when thay opted out and where the opted out parcel is.

Addionally, there is this thing called anonymity by by numbers. This is the same sort of an anonymity you enjoy in RL. If your phone numbers listed in the phone book, what is the chance of someone randomly calling you by picking up a phone book randomly selecting a name and dialing?

The chances are about the same if even less here, your talking maybe 500,000:1 or so of land to you own being randomly selected by someone or found or even noticed.

If you feel that odds are good maybe you should go play the lottery.. there about the same.

They're both the exact same thing and you know that . If you can map a name to a key then you can map a key to a name. Key2name isn't even relevant here, it's about the case where someone wants to find out all the parcels owned by one particular avie.

Other than that, noone cares that the parcel at SomeSim/128/128 is owned by Some Resident; you can tp there in-world and go to About Land to find that out.

The reverse of that isn't true and that's where the problem is. There is no - easy - way of finding out what parcels Some Resident owns across the grid without actually crawling through every sim and look at every parcel.

Your bot makes it trivial: get someone you want harass, look up their key, run it through the xml files for every sim and you'll have the answer in mere seconds.

I too would like to opt out. Please give the name of your bot so it can be estate banned. Thank you.

How about this, ill be fair:

You convince a linden that my system needs a opt out, and have them come talk to me, and ill give you a way to opt out.

As I have no reason to give you any information regarding my bot, or how information is used. Nor do I have a requirement to make the community aware or bow to one persons wishes or the community's wishes.

However I am responsible for making it fall within Linden Labs guidelines. If linden labs has a problem with the way it works then linden labs deals with me to correct the problem.

I think that sums up the way things work here in SL just nicely don't you?

fucking hell zor, let me be the first to say your project is great :o) i dont understand whats going on... people spend hours trying to get listed on google and spend $$ getting listed on yahoo and whatnot. its not like any of this can be tied to their rl identity.
as far as opting out i suppose you should wiegh up the pros and cons of allowing ppl to opt out:
pros:
-improved PR
cons:
-data/statistical integrity

i think few ehough actual residents would opt out that it would still retain 99.9% of data.

Well the way I see it, statistical integrity would be the hole thing to go for, there is no point in doing it half way.

The big thing about offering some opt out is that one demographic might opt out more then the rest, aka the paranoids, because everyones out to get them and they know it.

If the op out numbers where high enough it could ruin any data gathered on such demographic.

If any data is going to be looked at and or studied it might as well be as scientific as possible.

What you don't seem to understand is, there is a segment of the population in SL known as griefers. What you are giving them is a way to be more effective against their targets. So a griefer wants to target 'joe blow'. They go to www.w-hat.com, use the name to key and find his key. Then they go you your site and find out all the lands he owns and have a field day. There are already sites that do exactly the same thing you are doing, difference is, they do *not* list who owns the land. Those, at least, are tolerable. It's not about the TOS, it's not about how far you can go without breaking the rules, it's about being responsible and having personal integrity. Your posts so far show you are sorely lacking in both departments, otherwise you would understand that not everyone wants the location of the land they pay real world dollars for to be broadcast over the internet for any idiot to look up.
If it's not a big deal, then why are you making it one? Let the tiny, insignificant number of people who want to opt out, do so. Then everyone is happy, and we can all live our lives as we see fit. Imposing your view of how things should be on others is for lack of a better word, "uncool".

Please give the name of your bot and the names of all future similar bots publicly so all who care about not being harrassed can opt out - in my conservative estimation, about 98.6% of the SL population.

okthnxbye.

Funny, i haven't laughed so hard in a while.

Do a little research before you state stuff.

1. Thay cant pull up all your land without doing 11,000 query's first, thats assuming they know every sim name in secondlife.
2. w-hat offers name2key, not key2name so that place would be useless to them unless thay already had your key.

Inorder to work this the way you say, these griefers of yours eather have a collage degree in programming or have money to burn on hiring a programmer, as thats the only way they could do what you say they can


But if you guys really want a way to look up all a single persons land by name, i could easily provide it. I mean so many people are mentioning it, so people must want it.

Sorry to smash your assertions but you don't need a single line of code: a text editor, a web spider and the regular Windows search is all anyone would need.

Thanks for stressing my point, it's easy since the bot collected all the required data already.

I don't see why you'd need a new guideline either. You might have been unaware that a datamining bot potentially violates the covenant of a few hundred private sims, but you can't claim ignorance of that after this thread.

ahh, but you see thats where you are wrong.

covenant requires an agreement by parties. Aka, the land buyer and the seller.
You agree to follow the covenant when you buy the land, however me as a visiter never checked an 'I agree to this covenant'.

A covenant is basically a contract.
Its vary hard to legally bind someone to a contract they didnt agree on honoring nor have ever read or seen. Thats generally why software shows you the TOS BEFORE you install it.
Same things apply here, Id have to agree to the covenant before I entered the sim for it be binding to me.

If contracts where like that, stores would put a sign on the back wall of the stores could put up a sign in the back of the store stating something like "by entering this store you forfit all you property and bank accounts to the this store unless you stand on your head for 5 minutes. You are also subject to a 50,000 entry fine if we dont like you."

actually, I have taken great pains to keep any info about myself off the web. Anything that currently can be found about me is because I have put it there.

I value my privacy. That's both in real life and online.

Sad that your tone in this series of posts has shifted from "getting some sim data accessible from the web, for various other projects" to almost threatening to make this an easy griefer revenge tool "But if you guys really want a way to look up all a single persons land by name, i could easily provide it. I mean so many people are mentioning it, so people must want it."

An opt out is desired. I see more here asking for an opt out than asking to be included.

I already know what action I will be taking upon detection of said bot.

Actually land owners can enforce any rule on their land they choose to as long as it's within the CS and TOS. For private sims a covenant can either serve to inform renters of their obligations, or just lay out the rules visitors have to adhere to to avoid being ejected and/or banned. Your agreement to those rules isn't required, you have no rights on someone else's land.

Under normal circumstances you can argue that you shouldn't need to know or read the covenant/rules of every sim/parcel your bot passes through, and a good compromise would be that everyone can simply proactively opt-out or estate ban the bot.

Of course you're refusing to provide either, and persist on using an alt to go where you know you're unwanted, which might count as alt abuse under the CS.

Noone that chimed in thinks your project isn't worth persuing and doesn't have merit, and I personally don't care whether or not any parcels I own are listed, just as long as the owner key isn't present.