Shocking news regarding "There"

There Inc announced today that they're going to be changing their plan quite a bit. Read on, folks:

Today I would like to announce that There is changing its strategic direction to focus on our technology platform.

We will continue to run the consumer service, but will need to make changes so that we can better align our costs and run this service profitably. As we go forward we will continue to evaluate the consumer service and our ability to meet our financial goals on an ongoing basis.

All of us at There have poured our heart, soul, and in many cases, significant financial investment into There these last few years. We have been inspired watching you, the community, also pour yourselves into making There great and unique and so incredibly fun. We believe that virtual worlds like There will continue to evolve, and want There to continue to play a key role in this evolution. By focusing on There as a platform, we believe it can play a role in any number of virtual worlds, including the one you’ve helped to build.

Effective today, these are the changes we are making to the consumer service:

1. We’ll be open the same hours we are now, and we’ll continue to offer customer service through Live Help and email. (We haven’t determined if customer service hours will change, but will let you know if they do.)
2.We’ll also continue to have in-world moderation to help control griefers.
3. We’ll still be accepting developer submissions, although the approval time may take a bit longer.
4. We will still accept new members (monthly subscriptions only), and you’ll still be able to purchase Therebucks.
5. We will no longer be making regular updates to the software, and we will not be fixing bugs.
6. We’re not sure yet how we’ll handle There Central, but will get back to you when we do know.
7. We’ll likely have some kind of newsletter, but it may be sent out less often than the twice a week it goes out now.
8. We’ll be updating the Terms of Service soon to offer a 30-day money-back guarantee on membership fees.
9. We will no longer be sponsoring the Mentor or Event Host Credit (EHC) programs, nor will we be paying Refer a Friend bonuses.
We will be posting a Q&A which will hopefully address some of your questions shortly.


Michael Wilson
VP, Community


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So, that's it. The following is an FAQ that followed the above. Are the answers credible? Who knows.
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Here are some Questions which we anticipated you may have, and some answers:

Q: Will There be reducing it's open hours?
A: No. There’s service hours remain the same.

Q. Will it be harder for me to reach customer support?
A. It shouldn’t be. As always, the best channels to reach us are email to [email]help@there.com[/email], and Live Help.

Q. What about griefers? Will you be doing anything about griefers?
A: We will continue to offer in-world moderation, and will do what we can to help control griefers.

Q: Who will help users in-world with problems/training considering cuts to community helpers?
A: We hope that our Mentors will continue to greet new members, although we will no longer be paying them in Therebucks.

Q: How will There change now that the company is focused on building out the platform?
A:We will run the service across the same hours, we will still have customer support, and we will still accept and approve developer submissions. We’re not yet sure how we’ll handle There Central updates. We do know we will no longer be updating the software regularly, and will not be fixing bugs. Our engineering resources will be entirely dedicated to building tools and functions for our technology platform. In general, we will really be turning over the There experience to our members – its actually you who have been driving the bulk of the experience for awhile now.

Q: Is There going to close?
A: No. The company has just received new funding and will continue to operate; only we will now be focusing most of our resources on building out our platform.

Q: What happens to my account if There shuts down the consumer service?
A: Again, we plan to continue to run the consumer service, and will be evaluating its financial performance on an ongoing basis. If at some point, we determine that we can’t run the service profitably, we will at that time notify you of any changes, and will let you know the status of your account.

Q: Are my Therebucks at risk?
A: As long as the service continues to run, you’ll be able to use your Therebucks just as you do right now.

Q: Is There being set up for acquisition?
A: No. The board of directors and the management team are all very positive that we have created a valuable technology platform, and that we can remain independent as we continue to strive toward our milestones.

Q: Why is the membership only finding out now?
A: This change is a business decision, and we’re sharing it with you just after it was shared with the employees.

Q: Is this going to turn into a situation like other online worlds which have closed recently?
A: There is already succeeding on numerous levels – financial, partnership, technological and commitment levels. We will continue to develop our technology platform, and will continue to keep our eyes open for the best opportunities for us in the consumer marketplace.

Goodbye "There."

Ouch.

I see a new wave of people coming to SL before too long.

I don't know if it's bad to feel this way, but I have the same giddy feeling as when the Berlin wall came down. We Won!!

/me waves goodbye to There.

Bye There! Hey, all you over There! Come over here! We were cooler anywho.

(Twould be ironic if SL went the same way. Ugh.)

As cartoony and restrictive as There is, it would be sad to see it go. Everyone isn't blessed with broadband connections, creativity or taste. Competition is good. Also, its really too easy to pick on TSO

Hi folks There user here - figured I'd toss my couple cents in

While I do see that SL is a lot less restrictive in some areas, one part about There I think I'm gonna miss the most was the ability to model in 3D Max or Gmax and import that model to the game world. I know that there are quite a few (notably kicka**) creations in the SL world that were made using primitives, but I still gotta say - using a modeling package to design outside of the client would be a lot easier for old game modelers like me

Here's one of the last creations I was able to get into There:
http://error691.com/there/cruiser-red-ad.jpg

Most likely possible to do using prims, but it would take me a year Any chance of an import utility in the future?

I have been working on a high prim importer (uses one prim per face) from 3DS-Max '.3ds (ASCII)' format. Xylor has also been working on a similar project, or at least contemplating it. However, SL, given appropriate texturing, can do some amazing things - but the modeller is one of the weaker elements of SL, I heard rumours of importing with bounding-boxes around 1.8, although I have no idea how substantiated this is. (Any lindens want to confirm/deny that rumour? )

Seriously, no offense Grimm, but I see no issue whatsoever with creating that in SL. And easily.

When I clicked the link, I was expecting something complex. I do understand the desire to build outside of SL. However, I don't find the SL modelling system all that limiting. I mean, sure, we can't do boolean, but that's more a limitation of the streaming technology than of the modelling system. Once graphic cards and network technologies get better, I can imagine we'll get more complex modelling techniques.

As a hobbyist and semi-professional, I used to do all kinds of modelling in 3ds, Bryce and Lightwave. Recently, for a client, I decided to use 3ds to render a bit of the ad I was working up for them. I found the modelling system ridiculously, um, static. It was almost physically painful not to be able to walk around what I was modelling in real time.

Hi One

I s'pose it all comes down to what you're used to playing with. The bike in that pic wasn't meant to be complex - the idea was to keep it under the set limit of 900 or so polygons for submission to there. If SL offers a chance for more high poly stuff, I can help there too:

http://error691.com/pics/widowmakerpro.jpg
http://error691.com/pics/jackrabbit2pro.jpg

Thing is, those models would lag the holy hell out of anyone within a mile of 'em I'll be loggin' in today and giving the prim system a shot - see if I can't create a chopper or two

Cheers

There closing down is going to send some people back to TSO or thats what they are telling me. Mainly because of the interactions between avatars.

Please dont, I spend enough time being 'sir polygon nazi' as it is already.


Hehe, still it's easy to ramp up the poly's with SL. Just start using 1' twisted Torii.

The hard part is to start thinking in terms of primitives rather than polygons, other planes simular to the one you pictured Grimm have been made, alot of stealth bombers etc. personaly I think *anything* is buildable in SL, it just depends on how many prims you can/wan't to use. What makes me think anything is buildable is because really everything in the world can be broken down into geometrical shapes, a good example of this is Starax's work, I never really thought it'd be possible to make even halfway realistic looking people out of prims, but he's done it, and even more realistic horses too, however the cost of all that is a very high prim count (usualy around or above 100-200 I think).

For vehicles the limit is 31 prims, that includes the avatars, so if its a one seater it'd be 30 prims (if you want to use that many), plus the avatar would make 31, but no one else could sit on it then. Actualy the 31 prim limit is on *any* physical linked set of prims. In the past people got by that through some bug, but I think its been fixed, although some vehicles still say "Can't enable physics for objects that are more than 31 prims" yet they still work, so its odd.

Your best bet is to look at the thing you want to make (picture, or modeled, or from your minds visualization), then break it down into what prims could be used for what parts, like for that chopper, it would mostly be cylindars, cones, and some spheres. Also texturing is a big part of it, like for the dune buggyish thingy, instead of having actual spring wires around the lights using a prim, most likely you'd want to use a texture applied to a cylinder. So use textures when it can save you on prim count.

You'd probly figure that all out on your own, or already have, but if not I hope it helps.

There is dead! Long live There! w00000t!!!

So There has gone to plateau-phase too; that's not good. I find the following intriguing:

"Q: Is There going to close?

"A: No. The company has just received new funding and will continue to operate; only we will now be focusing most of our resources on building out our platform. "

Either it's a lie, or it's true. If it's true:
- why are they changing?
- what are they changing to?

I guess we're all thinking "It's going to become like SL". Personally I'm just going to consider that they're moving on to create There 2, which will combine the best of everything they've seen around them to date.

I could be being overly-optimistic, but what could be about to happen is an arms-race between There and SL to produce There 2 and SL 2, at least one of which could be the platform of my dreams!

The director of There is visionary, the director of SL too. In an interview, the director of There has explicitly stated his ultimate goal with There is to create Metaverse-type technology. If they're as addicted to this vision as I am, they're going to push to the limit to make it reality.

Um, random thought, they probably know each other in RL by now, the two directors. Maybe they should team up?

Azelda

Hah. SL2?! Never.

LOL! I'm supposed to be a Life Member of There..... looks like I may not have long to live! Oh well, its great here in SL.

I saw one of the higher ups at There doing a demo of their military client on Tech TV last week. It makes me wonder if they are focusing on that instead of There as well as perhaps putting in the focus on There 2 or something. Still, it doesn't make sense to me to suspend customer service for There I when they *may* be making There 2. EQ isn't suspsending customer service for EQ although EQ2 is on the horizon . . .

Either way, I have a premonition that this is very good news for SL. I hope I'm right!

Zana

I'd have to think that one side has a lot of faith in the other. It's rather obvious that There is the best choice for the military, because SL would just never work for them. There would be the one to pick, BUT... government contracts tend to expire rather quickly. I doubt the gov. communicates their interest with their clients, so I'd have to assume There wasn't making enough money off of, well, There, and had to move on with their government project.

Wild angry horses couldnt drag me back to TSO. Dont even think of such horrible thaughts!! ::: SHUDDERS :::

Lets be careful not to underestimate what is going on with There.

If you ask me, then they received much money from the military and try to build a much better engine now. Of course short term this might be a bit inconvenient for There players.

In the long run however it may indeed happen that there will be something like There 2. Or they will license the engine to other game developers who will create similar or completely different games using it.

Anyway, lets hope more There players come to SL than return to TSO. Then more people will help funding the Lindens and improvements to SL

To those who are crowing "we won!" and "There is dead!" I'd advise caution... multiple successful ventures in a space validate it, a chief concern for the mass market who by definition are not early adopters. Without a rich competitive landscape, this area is still a niche prospect and is at risk.

TSO's and There's failure to thrive are not good news for social virtual worlds who aim to attract a mainstream audience.

In my humble opinion, TSO floundered because it simply isn't fun. In the original Sims, it was fun to design your own house, buy your furniture, and race through the "greening up". I mean, honestly, how many times do you really want to watch your Sim pee? You simply fast forward through it.

In TSO, you can't fast forward through anything, and you're stuck with a pathetic plot of land until you room up with other people. But what if I don't want to be social? Well, touch, you need 32 roomates in order to have a house larger than 16 square feet.

There failing is a bit trickier to place... What little I played seemed to indicate that there wasn't much to do aside from chat or race around on buggies or play paintball. Three things do not a game make.

SL seems more robust and therefore more able to survive in a niche market. Wanna code? Do some scripting. Want to release your creative impulses? Build a house, a vehicle, a gun, clothes, or avatars. Want to chat? SL has that too.

Although it IS surprising that There went through 37 MILLION dollars in order to develop itself. TSO was 20 million, but that was to be expected from a huge behomoth like EA.

I wonder how much money went into SL's development/running costs?

Marel,

i understand your concern; however, i believe for the large part the community of SL responded with wonder and amazement.. almost a la disbelief, at the news about the radical changes of There.

then, we started to see a huge influx of Thereians and responded accordingly.. as in, many of us do not wish to dance upon the grave of There (which is currently not a grave, but seems to be "Under De-Construction".. we simply are welcoming the reincarnation of Thereians as Slers in a friendly manner.


note: the developments of There remind me of Sega. They bowed out of the console market, but are thriving as a games company.

and..

LF, you make a valid point. one which i share. TSO and There were VERY niche and not to forward in application. TSO is simply a regular game that implemented the 'online' feature.. poorly. There. to me, sems like a 3D version of AIM. SL is a creature all it's own.. it's like a play-land for modders.. for everyone really. it's not, 'you can do this, this and this', it's 'you can do.. just about anything.'

Welcome Thereians, we dance not on graves, we welcome new brothers and sisters without prejudice.