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Question to you all |
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Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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02-28-2003 06:29
nevermind when I posted it didnt have me any longer logged in so copy and pasted it and obvously it didnt all copy ... dont have the time to post it at this moment so will repost the thread at another time
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Shebang Sunshine
Royal PITA
Join date: 3 Dec 2002
Posts: 765
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02-28-2003 07:30
What's the question? =)
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Tracey Kato
Royal PITA
![]() Join date: 26 Dec 2002
Posts: 400
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02-28-2003 09:24
Who cares..........
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artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
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Jean Cook
Registered User
Join date: 4 Dec 2002
Posts: 208
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uaa
02-28-2003 09:46
would you just stop already ? Its getting old
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Soulace Fairchild
Registered User
Join date: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 13
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02-28-2003 10:10
Hey all, Havent been on in a long time.. due to some rl things as well as some SL things, but I have been keeping up on the boards as far as reading.. and I have stayed out of it all, even in rl, now theres things rivn has posted I totally agree with and some I dont.. that statement goes for some others on this board.. but the last couple times I have read the board it made my heart race.. like this one.. just a simple question from me.. seeings that there really isnt much Rivn said in this post why put in and I quote.. "who cares...." ??? seems to me he could come on here and it wouldnt matter what he says there are some of you who will be ignorant towards him thats a MAIN reason I will NOT return to sl sadly.. I am serious .. if he came on and said... I am sorry , and lets all be friends some of you would toss in your ignorance as a reply.. tsk tsk just makes me know for sure I dont miss the SL..
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Jean Cook
Registered User
Join date: 4 Dec 2002
Posts: 208
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,
02-28-2003 10:31
he changed what the post said. Its like he keeps wanting to argue about something or start something its just getting really old I think
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Wednesday Grimm
Ex Libris
![]() Join date: 9 Jan 2003
Posts: 934
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02-28-2003 10:53
Originally posted by Soulace Fairchild seems to me he could come on here and it wouldnt matter what he says I see how this could look bad to someone who has just started reading the board. This is the way it works for me: when someone first appears on the board the have (from me) a certian amount of benefit-of-the-doubt (or "respect" or "props" or "whuffie", whatever). As I read that person's posts and responses, and maybe interact with them in the world, they (usually) gain or (sometimes) loose some of this imaginary substance. I imagine that this is how it works for other people such that someone can get in to a state of such "props-bankruptcy" that their forum posts are automatically subjects of derision. |
Soulace Fairchild
Registered User
Join date: 13 Dec 2002
Posts: 13
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02-28-2003 11:05
I havent just started readin these posts , I have been here a long long long time.. Just gone from the sl game itself for awhile.. still been keeping up with boards.. and know everything that has gone on.. more things than most of you even know.. cause I see the whole deal , beings that I am rivns wife.. and there are just out and out attacks on him before he went off ranting on here.. I have given him my advise which is to just leave this board leave sl and forget about most of you.. ( not everyone) My thoery of the board and SL.. as with many things in life is that you all have a click .. and rivn just isnt in it never was so you treat him as an outsider.. and in turn he gets upset more and more, by your subtle ways of attacking him, an example.. with out naming and I am sure you will know it anyways is one certain female on here who no matter what Rivn posted good, bad or indifferent would rip his posts apart and mock him .. and I am not talking recently I mean from the beginning of sl time here.. soo as you see I know more than what you can even imagine.. and more than what most of you know or think you know..
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Wednesday Grimm
Ex Libris
![]() Join date: 9 Jan 2003
Posts: 934
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02-28-2003 11:37
What can I tell you Soulace? You're obviously not an impartial party in this, and neither am I. I can only give you my perspective.
I can tell you this for free though, I have not been in SL longer than Rivin (or if I have, it is only by a week or two). The people I have met have been friendly and accepting, and I haven't seen any of the clique-ism that you have. Sometimes it is the case that people are just incompatiable, it's a fact of life, and if this is the case here, then maybe your advice to Rivin was the best advice. This is not the only on-line community, or even the only shared-virtual-world game, there's no reason to fight against people here if happiness could be found somewhere else. |
Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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02-28-2003 12:51
oh boy here we go....
Ok my Original post here didnt take because the system had logged me out ffor one reason or another , perhaps it was due to the fact that I thought it out as I wrote it and it took awhile for me to post it being so ultra careful in my wording.... I had paged back and copied and pasted it in a hurry due to having to get to a task in RL and in my haste I didnt get it all copied , I pasted it and it was very incomplete so I later edited the post then got smacked in the face for simply saying I would rewrite it at a later time due to RL obligations and lack of time at that moment.... at any rate here is a overview of what it was although this time it wont be as though out in wording due to being smacked in the face for nothing.... We all applied for this beta with 1 primary goal (or at least we all should have) that was to beta TEST and help create a world that was ready for a Live rendition without bugs glitches and all the premarketing problems... During this process alliances where formed and communities started to be biult with shops homes ect.... My question to you all is this , what is or was your vision of a complete SL? A world where you can come and enjoy biulding scripting socializing with online friends , a place you can be proud to have been a part of its creation a place that you could show your mother , father , children ect ...and be Proud of all of what you have accomplished Or A place that is a close resemblence to Sodam and Gamora Life style, in which its full of nothing but wild nakedness and sexual deviation, a place that you would in no way want your family to know you had any assosiation with let alone a hand in its creation? Perhaps its a generation gap since Im closeing in on 40 years of age , perhaps its the adult in me that thinks of his children and wonders is this how life is going to be in a few short years for them joining an online community.. maybe it has something to do with my upbringing where you lived by standard and examples set by your piers and your family values.. I grew up within a family that lived by examples of our elders , they had motos and saying they used to tell us all the time most of which I have no idea of thier origin, things like.... Birds of a feather flock together , show me your friends and I'll tell you what you are... Dont do anything on a monday you would be ashamed of on sunday morning... There are many roads in life most times the one less traveled has a better view and the friends you meet along the way are more likely to be the truest of friends... So tell me what road do you choose the one with Pride and Honor ? Or the one of fornication and deciete and shame , one you wouldnt show your mother or daughter ? I cant see it being both ways , I have yet to meet an ashamed person who was proud of what he was ashamed of ! _____________________
try and remember text has no voice inflections so some things may not be meant as taken take care in your interpritations
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Wednesday Grimm
Ex Libris
![]() Join date: 9 Jan 2003
Posts: 934
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02-28-2003 13:05
It's a trap! Don't fall for it! Seriously.
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Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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02-28-2003 13:15
its just this sort of thing That Soulace was refrencing to , once again something said by me is being distorted , why dont ya all grow up and see reality instead of doing what ya have been and still are doing????
Wednesday Grimm It's a trap! Don't fall for it! Seriously. and it continues _____________________
try and remember text has no voice inflections so some things may not be meant as taken take care in your interpritations
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Jaxiam Slate
Registered User
![]() Join date: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 141
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02-28-2003 13:47
Interesting points Rivn, and to be honest - I agree - to a point.
Now maybe being a lil younger than you (not much) combined with being raised both by my very conservative church going grandparents (who here would be surprised I was an alter boy and was planning on entering the priesthood) at the same time as I was raised by my fun-loving, life-exploring mother (not hippie but darn close). Because of that I have a slightly conservative yet still open view on many things.. Nudity/Sexual behavior. I think these things *do* need to be moderated. Moderated because of the exposure that minors could encounter. But thats about it. See, half the problems we face are society driven. Sex is sex. You do it, I do it, the guy down the street does it, the dogs do it (sometimes to your leg if your not careful). Sex isnt shameful, it's not a bad thing. The sex drive attracts us to people, gives us energy and with a bit of imagination some fantastic experiences. it's not negative in any way. That some societies see it as such isnt a tribute to more traditional beliefs, it's a tribute to religious doctrine. Now some may disagree, and if they want to, thats well and good - but message me and we can hash that out in private. Trust me, in this I know exactly what I am talking about. One of the things that binds all of humanity together is our sex drive. We may disagree on political issues, society morals, and religious beliefs. But we *all* stop to admire the cute butt. So in this way, attraction can help to bring people together. Now does that mean I want SL to be a wild orgy-fest with av's running naked hither and yon with no regard for anyone else? of course not. It *does* have a place in SL. But that place hasnt been created yet. That place is where minors can be kept out of, and adults can explore adult ideas. SL is fantasy. it's not a real world. We explore sex in the RL, we can do so in better and more imaginative ways in the SL. Exploring sexual issues doesnt make us kinky, or perverted, or "that masturbating geek sitting in front of the computer". Exploring sexual issues makes us... in a word "Human". As to showing it to others. I can only speak for myself. I have chosen different routes in my life - both for how it is lived, and how I express my sexuality. Yet when I did so, I did it without shame, in a mature fashion. What I have chosen, my family, my friends know of. They accept, and while some dont understand *why* I made my choices, they recognize that it is not a bad thing. Why not a bad thing? Because I am not a bad person. The things I do online I have no problems letting my family see. They might not agree, they might think it's "darn silly", but they wouldnt think less of me for doing such. If I had children, I admit, it would be a different story. Not because I would be ashamed - but because I would not wish them exposed to it till they were mature enough to form their own opinions. Opinions created with an mature mindset. So yes I would be wary of children see what I do - not out of shame - but for the same reason I am concerned with minors of SL regardless of their relationship to me. In the end.. Pride and honor.. Those are personal concepts - unique for each person that wakes everyday, steps out of bed, and determines what is right and wrong for them. What I do, I do with pride. The path I follow adheres to my own sense of honor. It may not be yours, but that doesnt invalidate it. And as to the last. In the end, if you are ashamed of your actions - *Regardless of what those actions are* - then why do you persue them? YOU are your own benchmark for what is right and wrong in your life (barring illegal practices). If it makes you uncomfortable - listen to that inner voice, it's telling you that you've strayed from the path. That you are not true to yourself. and in the end, that's the only person we need to be true to. _____________________
So long as we can dream, SL shall always be Beta.
Book of the (Beta) Tester Book of Jax, line 1. |
Ama Omega
Lost Wanderer
Join date: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 1,770
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02-28-2003 13:48
My purposein joining this (and all other beta's) is to learn design techniques and strategies from as close a view as I can get, and also to learn about game design elements and factors as they are tried. I try to learn why things work or don't work. Why? My dream job is game designer. I just graduated with a BS in Computer Science but it doesn't look like I will get a job working on games for a while. In the meantime betas are one of the key ways I learn about the process and how game elements interact with each other. In return for this experience I avvidly seek and report bugs and share any and -all- ideas I have about the game. I think I come out with the better part of the deal but I try to contribute as much as I can.
As for what I want second life to be: I want it to be a place where peole can be who they wish they were. Sexual content should be possible if, and only if, there is good control to keep minors from such content. I am not really sure such control can be implemented well in second life. But that is another topic. I personally do not participate in sexual content, I have been a member of the beta test since early December and have had no trouble avoiding such content, in fact it has not hampered my SL experience at all. I do not want SL to be just sex, drugs and violence. However I think there are enough people who feel the same way that I should always have a place to go and things to do that I enjoy. Would I be upset if Linden Labs made a change in policy that forbid sexual content.... no probably not. I think it would be a hard policy to enforce, as any policy regarding sexual content will be. Will I quit and leave SL in disgust if sexual content is allowed? No. Second life has so many possibilities, so many freedoms. I forsee a future SL where communities are created (assuming the servers can support it ![]() And I hope to one day own a castle, built by someone besides me so it looks decent, explore a player made dungeon, and create the greatest script to ever grace the face of SL. |
Datura Fairchild
Dress Diva
Join date: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 133
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02-28-2003 14:31
You know, a lot of these 'discussions' start out by using a lot of rather charged words and loaded terms. It makes it very difficult to participate when you start out on the defensive. The question begins as, "What would you like SL to be?" but then we're forced to defend...
-our maturity -our pride and honor -our morality -our family values -our honesty ... how is any reasonable discussion supposed to take place like this? And furthermore, how is anyone SURPRISED if someone takes offense? I know I definitely feel offended (not ashamed). _____________________
-Datura
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Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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02-28-2003 14:47
well sorry you feel that way , seems to me everything we do in life is a reflection of who we are...
... how is any reasonable discussion supposed to take place like this? And furthermore, how is anyone SURPRISED if someone takes offense? I know I definitely feel offended (not ashamed). what is so offencive aboput any of this ? if your offended by a simple question based on what you personally feel SL should be I honestly dont know what to tell you other than maybe its time to take a deeper look within.. this is not meant to be an arguement only asked a question that would make people think about who they are in real life VS who they are trying to be in this Beta test for some they are who they are reguardless and others are totally different people ingame than out _____________________
try and remember text has no voice inflections so some things may not be meant as taken take care in your interpritations
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Shebang Sunshine
Royal PITA
Join date: 3 Dec 2002
Posts: 765
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02-28-2003 14:48
Ama and Jax: you made some very good points.
Rivn: My question to you all is this , what is or was your vision of a complete SL? A world where you can come and enjoy biulding scripting socializing with online friends , a place you can be proud to have been a part of its creation a place that you could show your mother , father , children ect ...and be Proud of all of what you have accomplished Or A place that is a close resemblence to Sodam and Gamora Life style, in which its full of nothing but wild nakedness and sexual deviation, a place that you would in no way want your family to know you had any assosiation with let alone a hand in its creation? Yes. To both, actually. I don't think it has to be an either/or situation. I personally don't want to play in "Sodam and Gamora", but I completely, totally, wholeheartedly support others' who do wish to engage in Adult Activities online / in SL. I cant see it being both ways , I have yet to meet an ashamed person who was proud of what he was ashamed of ! I -can- see it being both ways. <shrug and smile> I am proud of my little bits of SL, and my kids -do- see them in passing. They see some other stuff in passing too, sometimes in M sims, but nothing that I consider "Adult", because I don't play in those areas myself. Ok, there's a movie theater just down the street. They've got 8 or 10 screens (I forget). They show G movies and PG ones and PG13's and R rated movies. My kids are not allowed to see R rated movies. PG13's are judged on a case by case basis. Should I disallow them to go to this particular movie theater because *some* of the screens contain content (movies) which they are not allowed to see? We go to a renaissance faire every year. Some of the stage acts are Quite Mature. Some are Exceedingly Tame. Some fall somewhere in between. The kids don't get to watch the Quite Mature acts. The "in between" ones are, again, judged on a case by case basis (we've been going to faire for so long, we know the acts... and in the case of new acts, we see and judge them before the kids go). So... should we not be taking the kids to faire at all because some of the acts are Quite Mature? To me, as long as the Quite Mature stuff is Quite Seperated from the Tame stuff, I'm a happy camper. _____________________
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Gravy: the new ice cream. |
Datura Fairchild
Dress Diva
Join date: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 133
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02-28-2003 15:20
what is so offencive aboput any of this ? if your offended by a simple question based on what you personally feel SL should be I honestly dont know what to tell you other than maybe its time to take a deeper look within.. But, see, it's NOT a 'simple question based on what you personally feel SL should be'. It's all the things that follow it that offend me and I could go line by line and outline it for you in game if you really want to hear it. But basically, whether or not you intend it, using terms like "a Sodom and Gomorrah lifestyle" and "sexual deviation" in reference to the activities in SL offends me. And it seems to me like there's more of a danger of losing that freedom of expression between adults in a private environment than of it spreading to infect the entire SL world. And I would be rather disappointed if it did leave. One thing that has impressed me about SL has been the relative maturity of its players (you seem to disagree, but what can I say to that?) and the feeling that I don't always have to treat everyone like a child. I'd be sad to see that atmosphere gone and the world Disneyfied "for the good of the children". It can and should be seperated, but not eliminated. _____________________
-Datura
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Wednesday Grimm
Ex Libris
![]() Join date: 9 Jan 2003
Posts: 934
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02-28-2003 17:42
I tried to warn you all, but you wouldn't listen!
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Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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03-01-2003 03:41
and what is this supposed to mean ?
Wednesday Grimm I tried to warn you all, but you wouldn't listen! explain? seems we cant have a discussion around here without someone getting paranoid _____________________
try and remember text has no voice inflections so some things may not be meant as taken take care in your interpritations
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feniks Stone
At the End of the World
![]() Join date: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 787
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03-01-2003 11:30
Originally posted by Rivn Epoch oh boy here we go.... at any rate here is a overview of what it was although this time it wont be as though out in wording due to being smacked in the face for nothing.... We all applied for this beta with 1 primary goal (or at least we all should have) that was to beta TEST and help create a world that was ready for a Live rendition without bugs glitches and all the premarketing problems... During this process alliances where formed and communities started to be biult with shops homes ect.... My question to you all is this , what is or was your vision of a complete SL? If this was really your question, you would have stopped here. Originally posted by Rivn Epoch Or [...] But you went on. And went on with questions with agendas beyond the actual question. Honestly Rivn, you can't see that your words appear judgmental and insulting? It doesn't seem you wanted an answer at all, and it feels like being set up for an attack. It seems you are trying to implement or manipulate the SL world to fit your personal moral standards. That doesn’t really work in RL either. I see this world as reflecting RL fairly accurately. There are all kinds, and with all kinds of views on mature content. It is certainly not an age issue, the age span in SL is fairly wide, you maybe surprised how many of us are closing in and even passed 40 years. In your OT post about God, the God you referred to has been quoted to say things like "love" and "judge not". He has also been quoted as saying "Tell" not force with manipulation and hurtful comments. I was told once, "When you are trying to express a point, ask yourself am I going to get my point across or am I going to make the other person defensive and respond defensively? What do sort of reaction do I really want from them? What does the reaction I am trying get say about what I am really trying to say?" I believe that most people are proud of what they accomplished here. I see so many extremely marvelous things, the SL world is amazing, including the naked parts. One reason I really like SL is the lack of killing and warlike scenarios so many other games have. I think the content in SL, while including all the mature themes (which those involved were actively trying to protect children from being exposed to), is extremely better than any hack and slash game. I would much rather have the opportunity to decide to see or not to see naked AVs than have to kill 200 Orcs to advance in a skill level. I would prefer my child become invovled in SL than many other games. ...raise up your child in the way he should go... fen- |
Nexus Nash
Undercover Linden
![]() Join date: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 1,084
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03-01-2003 14:54
Originally posted by feniks Stone One reason I really like SL is the lack of killing and warlike scenarios ... LOL Fen you live with Xav! (homeland...) Anyways to simply answer the question. I just want SL to be a place where you can do what ever you want! But I would like to have more open spaces... with less crap in the way... but I know how much servers cost and all so I won't complain about that. But... we dooooo need cities, like make it WAY cheaper to build in the urban centers and have like 3 or 4 sims from city to city.... that's what I want to see. A little more organized. My first wish for SL, is to be able to drive a car NFS (Need for Speed) style! That's what I wanted when I came in and that's what I want before it goes gold. I wanna be able to burnout... steer, accel, deccel, shift, turning signals, see the shocks absorb bumps , the whole thing! I've see "cars drive" but that was simply floating and really choopy! Not all that great. _____________________
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Zoli Zeeman
Necronomiclown-in-Trainin
Join date: 7 Nov 2002
Posts: 135
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03-02-2003 01:14
So is it too late to vote for the Sodam and Gamora Life style??? I mean, Why AREN'T the mature sims already full of nothing but wild nakedness and sexual deviation?!? After all The deviants are the ones who advance society the most,,, not the hapless herd.
If I'm gonna throw down w/ the Rockdollars, the entertainment is about what I define as fun, and I will gravitate to likeminded freethinkers, unfettered by the (IMO) oppressive restraints of biblebelt dogma. And should I so choose to build "erotic" 3D models, I'll do so onna mature sim,, and let the kiddos play elswhere..the way it is supposed to be. Oh, and when I'm finnished w/ my creation,, I'll show it to my mamma, and not think twice,, ya know why?? BECAUSE IT'S ART!!! I thank god N heaven that I was conceived by a woman who wasn't entrapped by the religious cacophony of our ancestors (a construct of man,, not god BTW) That's just how I feel. Oh yeah,, I'd also like to mention the desire for sub-object tools again. I spoke w/ Jah today & he said we need it.... no REALLY,, he DID! _____________________
XXX OOO
-Z- -Chaos, panic, & disorder - my work here is done.- |
Tracey Kato
Royal PITA
![]() Join date: 26 Dec 2002
Posts: 400
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To Right A Wrong
03-02-2003 14:01
When this thread first started, Rivn obviously had something to say, and for what ever reason, did not say it.
Out of pure spite, I made a comment I now deeply regret. Although I rarely agree with anything Rivn has to say, and I don’t expect we will ever be friends, that did not give me the right to say what I did, in the hateful manner I said it. Rivn, please accept my deepest apologies for my rude and obnoxious comment. Tracey _____________________
artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
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Rivn Epoch
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 207
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03-02-2003 16:05
I honestly at this point at least dont worry to much about what anyone says about me here I have learned to take it with a grain of salt ...
I have said things here i have had remorce for even if it was truthfull and have made appologies only for them to be ignored , have posted them and have sent them in IM form with no responce ... is a crappy feeling when someone wont accept , I will not be that way... If you are sorry thats all well and good and Ill except that. I really cant understand why people get so upset that someone else has different views about things than they do ... I think its a good thing, the world would be a damned boring place if we all agreed on every issue 100% of the time, people come from dif places and are raised in dif. enviroments and have vast amounts of cultural differences too so many many many opinions are formed about 1 small issue everyday , its a shame we all cant express them without being slandered for those thoughts... you do know the saying dont you? opinions are like assholes everybody has 1 have a good day _____________________
try and remember text has no voice inflections so some things may not be meant as taken take care in your interpritations
Computer not running good enough ? Visit my site for over 50,000 computer and related products at virtualy unbeatable prices by Companies you know and trust follow the link at http://bestcomputers4less.tripod.com |