Chief Justic Rehnquist is dead...

The credibility of your posts' purportedly humane argument has been destroyed by gloating over potential human suffering.

-I see where you're coming from. It's like a pro-choice person telling me how to raise my kids.

But let me try to help you see it my way for just a second. I believe that abortion=infanticide. Now to put this in a different context-say in the course of trying to rape a woman that woman gouges out his eyes or tears off his scrotum or in some other way maims her assailant. Should I then feel sorry for the inhumane treatment this rapist suffered? Should my heart bleed for this blind, scrotumless rapist?

Would yours?


Y'see, you great big humanitarian, I didn't say anything at all about the issue of Roe v Wade or go into detail about why your post disgusted me, did I? No, I did not. I was gonna mention it grossed me out in hopes that it might have some effect.

-Exactly what effect were you hoping for? Perhaps I can simulate it for you.

But hey, that sure backfired, and you sure seem to like imagining this stuff...

-Typical Liberal retort when confronted with the brutal reality of abortion. I don't like imagining this stuff, moreover, it's not my imagination-it's fact. What I want is to get you to picture it so you can see just what it is you're supporting.

... so let me tell you, I am currently recovering from emergency surgery to remove a great big tumor*. I trust that, in view of your vivid description displayed in this thread, you can picture it. I know your posts sure helped me picture it -- thanks a lot! So you see, your posts here, as I said, made me feel sick to my stomach. Now, you want to rant some more about punctured, cut-up wombs to see how many women you can hurt, you considerate humanitarian person?

-Firstly, let me set all sarcasm aside and say that, while I'm sorry you had to go through your operation at all, I'm glad to hear your tumor was benign.

Now, what your tumor has to do with abortions I don't know. Are we comparing babies to tumors? That could explain the cavalier attitude some women seem to have about abortion. Or was your tumor in your uterus?

At any rate, I'm not going to be silenced on the realities of this barbaric and disgusting act for fear that I may offend someone's sensibilities. Maybe if more women knew what they were really signing on for we wouldn't be where we are now. Abortion is a business after all, and if no one's buying, we don't need laws to get rid of it.

Yeah, I happen to be on the opposite side from you on the issue of choice. But you know what? If you really believe it's murder, I think it's downright commendable for you to speak up and try to change the law. I certainly wouldn't bother trying to change your mind about it on the freakin' Second Life message boards.

-Where would you try to change my mind? This forum reaches hundreds of intelligent people around the world. But it's not my only forum. The ballot box is perhaps my largest forum.

No, I spoke up to say to you, a kind and caring human being, that gloating over the suffering others would go through if this law were changed is inhumane, immoral, and revolting.

-I refer you back to my first rebuttal.

And trying to smack someone with the image of a hacked up womb to shut her up (or to troll) is . . . just plain lame.

-Almost as lame as trying to smack someone with the image of a poor woman sick to her stomach after just having a tumor removed to shut him up? (I've got too many posts to be a troll)

As I said at the outset of this post: It destroyed the credibility of your purportedly humanitarian argument.

With that vivid imagination of yours, I am sure you can imagine a more appropriate place where you can shove your hanger.

-In my closet!?

* for those keeping score at home, turned out it wasn't malignant . . . yay!

Moreover, as I've pointed out repeatedly, I am in favor of the so-called "Morning After Pill". But more importantly I'm a big supporter of responsible adults being responsible about their sexual activity.

Interesting. For once, I'm actually inclined to agree with you at least partially. It seems your primary concern is the maturity of the embryo. What is your cutoff? Chemical abortion is relatively effective until around the 10th week of pregnancy. Is that it, then? Is the 10th week your cutoff? Or would it be approriate to use VA abortion techniques until the 15th week? What about inducing premature delivery before the third trimester? What is the substantive difference between these approaches? What, for you, makes one more reprehensible than the others?

Personally, I believe the right to an abortion should extend through the second trimester. Morally, I draw the line at viability. During the second trimester, the fetus is quite incapable of surviving on its own. However, as the third trimester progresses, it becomes increasingly more likely that the child could survive if it were naturally born at that time. Assuming there aren't exigent circumstances, I think the late-term abortion of a viable fetus constitutes murder.

Good question. I'm not sure; that's why I stay as close to the exact moment of inception as possible (morning after). I'm appalled that more people can't see that 3rd trimester abortions are murder plain and simple (barring those exigent circumstances). But what about that grey area? You said that "during the second trimester, the fetus is quite incapable of surviving on its own" but then babies up to toddler aren't really capable of surviving on their own either as evidenced by the death of abandoned newborns so we have to be careful how we define what constitutes the cut off. We don't want to accidentally open a loophole for post-pardum abortion.

But the idea of inducing labor, partially delivering a viable fetus-a child that would otherwise be able to live on its own-then sticking a tube in it's skull and sucking out it's brain-that doesn't make you sick at all, huh? What about actually scraping said child from the womb, cutting and hacking at it so that one has to actually count all the fingers and toes and such to make sure none were left inside the ex-mother? Nothing, huh? Remember that woman who was murdered and her baby cut from her womb? That baby is alive today. But that mother, had she lived, could have gotten an abortion had she felt the desire to exercise her "right".
Now *that* makes me sick.

-Kiamat Dusk

What about its not your fucking body?