Real Life SL Accounts?

It would probally also decrease griefers and may put an interesting spin on how people act if there isn't as much anonmity. But I wouldn't really wouldn't support this, plus "Craig" doesn't quite have the same ring as Toneless

seenig how you can find any one location throught the internet such as addres sand phonenumber this might be a bad idea.

I like to keep my RL separate from what I do on the internet. I've encountered enough weirdos and stalkers on IRC and on MU*s and I'm sure if I spend enough time on SL I'll eventually encounter similar.

I would like to get rid of the fixed last name thing, or the requirement to have any last name at all, that way I can use the same name as I do on various other places on the internet.

You really don't want to be tying SL to RL too much as then it wont be SL any more, just a 3D text-based internet phone, or something. Go and use Skype instead if that's what you want.

Don't assume that you'd be forced to use the name arrangement we have now...

The Real Life/First Life SL Accounts would allow you to use your real life name, or business DBA, or other name that is tied directly to your payment cc/account information held by LL.

By definition it would have a different opt-in account naming arrangement, different from the one used currently.

I only have one alt. He has my rl name, first and last. I made him when I saw that my rl last name was available. I did it, not out of current need, but in anticipation of possible future need. I very rarely to never log in or use the alt. I made the alt strictly for the name, and don't see myself having a use for it anytime soon. But hey, it's there if I come up with one.

Hey, who's to say this isn't my RL name?!? Actually I guess it'll be a real milestone for SL when somebody changes their RL name to match the SL identity they've built. (You'll have to decide for yourself whether it's a good or bad thing...)

Sadly my RL last name had come and gone by the time I got here, or I would have locked it up Just In Case...

So, when does the SL equivalent of the Great Internet Domain Name Land Grab kick in? Or, perhaps it already has...

And in that case, has LL said anything about people trading in-world identities? I don't know that I'd want to, but will you ever be able to buy/sell/trade an SL identity on e.g. eBay? The way billing is set up LL would have to sanction this, but I don't recall ever hearing/reading anything about it.

/me starts checking the list of names on the registration page...

I think this a terrible idea.
Why?
Because anonymity protects.
The conventional view is that it protects the anonymous person himself.
My view is that it is an even more critical protection for those dealing with him, whether themselves anonymous or not.

Sounds crazy, doesn't it ? - Let me explain.

Though it has yet to be fully resolved in a court, it can be argued that one cannnot libel or slander an anonymous pseudonym as easily as an RL person (if at all).

This means that one can express ones views about the behaviour of another player here without the same danger of prosecution as when dealing with an RL identity. Speech here is much freer for precisely this reason.

I would prefer not to deal with anyone here who insisted one using his RL name. I can't see any reason for any normal players to need to do so.

In the case of a Private Island Landlord, or a Banker, or other person one is trusting with RL-sized , significant assets, there is a reason and I would approve them confidentially releasing an RL identity to an individual client if so requested.

But not displaying it to all. If such RL names were to be allowed, I would want all bearers to carry an immediately visible marker (symbol appended to name ?) so that the rest of us could be wary and on the look out for the occasional aggressive litigant who chose this option precisely to seek out victims to accuse. And there would be a few, believe me.

"Your anonymity protects me from your exaggerated accusations. - I request that you keep it. "

As a woman I enjoy the slight bit of protection from random stalkers that annonymity gives me. I have been stalked and threatened by internet people in the past, when I was much less cautious, and now I sleep easier. I suppose that making annonymity optional would go a long way to promoting SL for business uses, but it is not an option I would excercise.

Interesting logic, Ellie.

Very interesting!

I have to say at times I have seen people swing the libel bat to squelch criticism around here because they think they're running RL businesses.

Basically what you're saying is that if people had a merwan RL account then their bat would be that much larger.

i support this idea merwan. it would be a nice choice for people. i personally would want an account with my RL name to fuse my RL and SL portfolio

with LL's new rules the libel bat is huge. you can lose your account. anyway, i think wanting to protect people behind anonymity to act like baffoons is a really worthless cause.

think of it. if jauani wu goes RL, you all will be saved a whole lot of juvenile satire.

Exactly.

Well, my reading of your post suggests to me you misunderstood my post.

I do not want to use my REAL name, I want to use a made-up last name, same as my made-up first name in SL. I want to be "Ghoti Styx" (pronounced 'fishsticks" like I have been in almost every online game I've played in the last 12 years, but no, "Styx" is not an option as a last name in SL... Neither is it my RL last name, but rather it is the online identity I have established over 12 years of gaming.

It would be nice to be able to carry over that full identity into SL.

-Ghoti

Why would it have to be tied to a credit card? Why not allow people to pick their full name without constraints?

Of course, names deemed 'obscene' or whatever could be changed or removed at LL's discretion.

-Ghoti

Currently, everyone knows that every name in SL is a fake name. There are problably a few people in world who were able to actually use their real name, but everyone would agree that those are lucky flukes. Nobody has any special claim to any name because all names are fake and available on a first come first serve basis. Everyone knows that names don't mean anything, and hardly anybody has a meaningful name.

If you allow people to pick their own names, then real world names and trademarks become an issue. There would be disputes over whether Microsoft's Bill Gates, some other Bill Gates, or somebody not even named Bill Gates gets to be "Bill Gates".

While letting people pick their own names wouldn't automatically create any rights for anybody, it would change expectations about what names mean. I think it would create a situation similar to what happens with *.com names.

Buster

migrating my comments from the stupid thread.perhaps. though i think it's less a requirement of the accounts being first life accounts, so much as the businesses being able to tie them to first life data. kinda like email and paypal.perhaps. but there are many businesses (and non-businesses) that as long as they get a valid mailing address, billing address, and/or billing information - without the email account or isp a person coming to them verifying the person.

Are you saying that giving people the choice of Op-In RL accounts/names/business is a terrible idea - or that you won't not choose to this option?

Cadroe several US industries (healthcare, financial/insurance services) are like this as well - both customer to business and business to business - real life identity, qualification and track recoreds are vital to the buseinss relationship.

After all, would you attend and pay for a post-surgery support group in SL if you had NO real life information re: the presenter?

I am not sure I like this idea much. If people want to do business, why cant they just share RL information outisde of SL privately. I guess if its opt in, I wouldnt have too much of an issue though. My only fear is that some people in this game would no doubt, use real life information to harrass others outside of the game. LL has no control what happens outside the game. So then you would have to go the legal route. I know somebody that had a internet stalker and the authorities were pretty much useless.

For this reason I have to vote no. If you want to be open about yourself, you can already opt in by putting your real information in your profile in the First Life tab.

I have a post regarding this, here:

/130/e3/53386/1.html

I think such an account would be a perfect match for this function.

I've framed this related issue as a question for the upcoming town hall meeting here:

Expand the Niche To RL! The Time Is Now

Many small RL businesses, especially in Healthcare, Finance, Insurance, Real Estate, Human Service, Non-Profit and Employment Recruiting require full disclosure of identity, credentials and business references. Customers/clients just won't do business without knowing who they are dealing with.

For SL to attract these vast untapped service markets, LL must create an option where real life accounts are set up enabling real life identities - business names, corporate names, DBA's, sole propty., personal names, website linkage, etc. Once that is implemented, I for one, would be able to offer some resources within SL to my clients, small seminars, consulting services, multi-media presentations, etc.

Does LL have any plans to create the option for RL accounts within Second Life?

If not, what needs to be done to convince LL that this would be an EXCELLENT business decision!

((Your Questions for the SL Economic Town Hall))


Related Threads:

Robin L - Turn Key SL Business Ops!

Robin Linden's:
Creating SL Last Names

Well, some thoughts on this idea...

1) First, having two names (first and last name) may well be enough in most countries of the world, but definitely not on mine. My legal identity iRL demands I write my five names in full, one of which has an accented character which is currently not available as a name choice. So I guess I'd have to stick with just two names for SL. Unfortunately, it seems that iRL, there are a lot of people with my first and last name (I often Google for that for fun!) -- even worse, many are in the same business/interest area than myself, and this has lead to confusion in the past.

Google shows about 12,000 entries for "+Gwyneth + Llewelyn". All are related to my SL persona. The Creative Commons site also lists "Gwyneth Llewelyn" as my pseudonym. So, for me, there is absolutely no confusion in identifying the "Gwyneth Llewelyn" name with myself uniquely The same, of course, applies to authors like Stephen King that write under pseudonyms, and who certainly have taken pains to make sure that the usage of their pseudonym has uniquely identified themselves. There cannot be another "Stephen King" in the publishing business, independently of Stephen's real name.

So, unless SL ever expands the number of available names beyond first and last, in some cases, there will be no "extra trust" related to assuming your RL name. Rather the contrary, all the John and Jane Smiths of the world will be simply left out and be mixed with each other.

2) Secondly, I understand Merwan's concern about having a small business adopting their RL name. Now this is something completely different and I very well understand the need to address that problem. As an example, some of you know that I work with ARCI (a non-profit organisation promoting the use of computer technology in social and cultural areas). Yes, ARCI has a private island, and the alt "owning" the island is called, appropriately, "Arci Gremlin" (don't worry, you won't see her around much, she hardly steps onto the mainland ). This, I believe, stretches a bit the usage of a "SL name" to represent a entity. I would love to have a different way to name that avatar.

I have no "cool suggestions" to make. This definitely sounds like the problem with the domain name system, served on a first-come, first-served basis (at least in the US) unless you have an international trademark to back up your claims and a good lawyer. Interestingly enough, a similar organization, also called ARCI, is based in Italy, and is absolutely unrelated to the entity I work with. If some day they log in to Second Life, there will be confusion about which entity the "Arci Gremlin" avatar belongs to. The Portuguese ARCI, unable to hire expensive lawyers, would have no choice but to step down and cancel the "Arci Gremlin" account in case an Italian lawsuit would be filed against us (Heaven forbid!)

So, while it definitely would look silly, one easy way out would be to have the last name your entity's domain name, and pick one for your first name. In the case above, the avatar holding the island would probably be called "Landowner ARCI.PT". That may look silly in terms of SL's current name choices, but it would make the usage of that name legally sound. LL could easily check up on the domain name system who would legally hold a particular domain and allow or disallow these types of last names.

3) Usage of brands and trademarks. Let's assume I create an alt called "Microsoft Extraordinaire" and present myself doing business under that name. Uncle Bill Gates would probably not like that much, and would resent that. Now, you'd say, this is rather far-fetched, since in reality you won't have a valid credit card that lists "Microsoft Extraordinaire" as your real name, so this wouldn't work. Big companies are, thus, pretty safe from that kind of exploit.

But many of you probably remember Mrs Jones clothing line (through Avalon) offered in SL. Now imagine I'm called Judy Jones iRL and register my name as an alt, and add "Mrs" as a silly title, and start doing business as a clothier in SL. How could you prevent that? In RL, Mrs Jones would be able to stop that business easily - since her "name" is very likely trademarked - but they would be hard pressed to force LL to cancel an account called "Judy Jones", since it was created based on a credit card which lists that as a real name.

Of course, these are exceptions - but if you're a small business, and doing business under your own real name, suddenly you may find out that someone with exactly your name has already connected to SL and is using that name as a pretext to increase sales.

It's sort of "reverse anonymity" - exploiting your real name to get an unfair advantage over businesses using that name iRL. I don't have the slightest idea how "working under your real name" is handled in the US, for instance, but around here, you simply can't have "duplicates" - there is a central registry for making sure that there aren't two people offering the same services in the same area under the same name. But even if the US laws are bulletproof against duplication of business' names, what about someone who registers from Canada, Australia, New Zealand...?

In short, Merwan's assumption of "using your RL name in SL" is legitimated on the notion of trust - if people know your RL name, and the business you do under your RL name, they're probably more willing to accept doing business with you in SL if you use your RL name. What I see is quite likely the reverse - since I have no way to be absolutely sure that someone's RL name is exactly what he/she claims to be, or worse, even if the name is the same, I may simply be talking to the wrong person, so I would highly likely mistrust these special "RL accounts" more and not less!

While I dislike my own #2 suggestion, I think SL could evolve towards something similar. Perhaps not as a "name", but as a way to have a third party verifying that a certain avatar really "belongs" to a company/entity. This is similar to the "trust rings" used by Certification Authorities like Verisign or Thawte (among many others). Say, add a digital signature to your profile, verified by one of the Certification Authorities. That way, you can make sure you're dealing with the correct entity, and not someone posing as someone else.

It's very interesting to read that Directive #93 from the EU in 1999 has addressed this issue closely. In a nutshell, European Law protects pseudonyms to the extent that service providers cannot deny the usage of a pseudonym when certifying the identity of that particular person, although the certification authorities are able to disclose RL information in case a court demands so. This means that CAs are able to certify someone's pseudonym (or rather, they cannot deny the certification of someone's pseudonym). This means that working under your assumed pseudonym is as legitimate as under your real name. Hmm. Interestingly enough, international IP rights under the Bern Convention (note: the whole text of the convention may not fully apply to your country!) also protects pseudonyms and the author's unique identification to that pseudonym. Similar legislation also applies to athletes, who can use a pseudonym when registering in a specific federation for the purpose of competing.

Of course, legal interpretations by someone writing under a pseudonym in the SL forums should always be taken with a pinch of salt, specially if issued by someone who has often claimed in the past not to be a laywer or a law expert (yes, I'm not a lawyer!) But Google for that information. It's all available publicly. It gives some food for thought.

So, who has certified your pseudonym lately? I already had a digital signature for my SL email address for some time... they're free to get

I thought you might be interested in this, we registered the name:

Fizik Baskerville(tm)
River Dusk(tm)
Avalon. (tm)
Spacethinkdream (tm)

(the name and mark within the Virtual World space/computer gaming market. All these names are registered trading names of Rivers Run Red Ltd USA/UK )

To answer the earlier 'assumption' about MrsJones, anyone is entitled to call themselves 'MrsJones'. The issues arise if someone tried to 'pass off' their clothing brand as a 'Mrs Jones' product. This would cause conflict of interest and be seen as a deliberate attempt to defraud the customer and the IP owners of the 'Mrs Jones product line and trading name'.

Also, and this is HUGE debate, a few questions for you:

1) Personal IP rights vs company registered IP rights?

1a) How much of what individuals create inworld, is protected without the RL support of a legally formed company?

2) I think the issue here, is how many inworld designers we think could be on the verge of 'incorporating' themselves?

2a) Until that happens, is the 'second life inworld trader' more akin to an ebay trader?

3) Also, how long before 'individuals' will have to pay their state tax? Look at SOE for an example, all players from the UK have to pay VAT(value added tax) on top of their monthly account billing. How will this effect SL? [if you're a registered RL company you can within-reason claim back VAT]



Really interested to hear what you think, I am writing up a report on our experiences creating the Avalon. brand [pdf. will be made available to all SL'ers - all quotes will cited to the individuals]


best



Fizik





Also, as a trading entity I would be very cautious about following anyones advice on the forums regarding legal matters. Each country has its own laws and quirks, therefore seek proper legal advice! Some of things we've seen listed here are very very wrong in terms of a legal standpoint!