SL paying the bills?

1. Do you think it is feasible, at this point in SL's evolution, to make a living in SL? (excluding land development and rentals) 'Living' obviously means different things to different people. Let's use the US national median of $43,500. If I am figuring right that is about L$30,000 / day.

2. If so, what is your confidence level that LL and SL will be around in a few years?

3. How transferrable are the skills used in SL? (modelling, texturing, scripting)

4. What is your confidence level in the Linden exchanges(GOM, IGE), the exchange rate being fairly stable, and there being a large enough demand for Lindens to exchange that much money?

This isn't a study. I want to make a serious evaluation of the feasibilty of doing full time development in SL for myself.

1) One year's gross, yes.
Sustainable income, no.
Median income, absolutely not.



2) Quite high. Second Life just happens to be about more than just cashflows.



3) Speaking as someone that knows how some things work On The Outside, fairly high. Prim modelling is close enough to external software that I built a 3D Model Importer for it.

Long term, SL should seek to tap these existing userbases for new residents. I feel it will go this way, as common standards are less risky to implement and have more potential gain in the long run.



4) N/A. Sooner or later, L$ will become USD in truth. How long that will take is a mystery, but I doubt that will start in Second Life. Likely SOE or another big company will bear the brunt of legal proceedings on the matter first, and LL will use this to pave their way.

I agree with Jeffery on all of them.. but Shhhhh, you weren't suppposed to tell them about this plan! That was supposed to wait until AFTER the Lindens had taken control of the govenrment!

But to make a serious living with SL? Definately not at this time. However, it is a good way to display RL skills as either builders/graphic artists/coders when job hunting. If it looks good in a glitchy, laggy environ, well, imagine what it will look like in RL or in a less glitchy game world! (No such thing as a glitch-free.. Nope)

No harm in asking...

#1
Personally I think anyone would be really risking it by attempting to make SL one's "real" job. I'm not saying it's impossible, just highly risky. Steady income isn't easy to get, but certainly there's a number of residents that make a nice total each week. But I think that total is far from adequate for paying one's bills in a reliable manner.

Again, not saying it cannot be done, and some no doubt already make some decent pocket change, or even hundreds a month. I don't know anyone that's turned over $500 in any month, and in my neck of the woods $500/month isn't diddly for living in the real world. Those (very few) that I do know that have made decent money spend a lot of time and effort in SL. A LOT of time, way more than my 40hrs/week job (course SL time tends to be much more fun). Anywho, a lot more effort for a lot LESS cash.

Another catch is, no matter what you do, anyone else can do it too. We all have the same resources (but not all the same ability levels -- which can be learned, in most cases, without too much effort). Thus finding a niche for a strong market is extremely difficult. SL's a game of keeping ahead of 99% of the rest with new toys to sell/play with. Interest is short lived, imho, in most products, because soon enough the market is flooded with many other types of whatever it is you made (look at vehicles... was a time when there were just 3 (sold) working craft. Now even my kat can script up a car/boat/plane/skates/rocket powered toilet...

Anywho, I'm up way too late, but thought I'd post my mutterings. I like your inquery, it has merit... just a hard road to take (at least for now and for a few years yet, imho).


#2
High, I don't see it going away anytime. Has the potential/scalability to always be around.

#3
Low, imho. Texturing (Clothing sorta falls into this category too) is perhaps the most useful if you really get into it. Scripts might launch one into learning some other "real" language. But LSL won't land you a job anywhere, other than SL. Although you might be able to say "lemme show you this thinger I scripted..." To justify that you have the ability to learn something actually useful in the real world. Building I dunno, perhaps like scripting, it might lead to greener pastures if one picked up Maya or 3dStudio.

#4
I think it will be "stable", but that doesn't necessarily mean profitable. It could be stable at $0.01US/1000$L. I personally think the economy is still doomed because there's too much free game money (ratings), and no money sinks.

Boso

1. Yes, I think you could hit your 30K Lindens/day. It would take quite a bit of work and I think you would need to diversify. You should also anticipate disasters and be ready for them, such as when SL goes down, teleport stops working, asset server issues change all of your products to full copy/mod/transfer. If you treat these issues as "the cost of doing business" rather than emergencies then you may stay sane through all of this.

2. It's anybody's guess as there are SO many factors that go into maintaining a business. My wild-ass-guess would be yes, LL will be around for quite a while.

3. There are a ton of skills that are transferrable in SL. LSL can teach you the basics of programming, making textures and clothing build your skills in photoshop and design, and I think anybody that starts a business in SL gets a quick lesson in basic economics (huh, I seem to be making MORE money by charging less... who would have thunk!).

4. It's fairly unstable.

1) Let's look at two of SL's most "successful" figures.

Kermit, the guy who made tringo, has made perhaps $20,000 US from sales of the game, and another "low 5 figure amount" on the rights of Tringo to another company. He coded Tringo on his Christmas break, so it's all profit from there, really. But not really sustainable, as people will get sick of tringo EVENTUALLY.

Anshe, the Grid's leading land marketeer, allegedly pulled down $US 90,000 last year. But then again, she also easily pulls 60/70 hour weeks in SL, and has a strong, diversive business portfolio. You're not going to see another ANshe for a long time.

2) Extremely high. I'm of the opinion that even if SL (god forbid) flops like a wet fish, and LLabs folds, the Lindens would release the source code to the servers and to the client to the community, and SL would continue along as an OSS project.

3) I consider everything in SL to be "hobbies". I've wielded my amateur interest in architecture to make some side money for college in SL. From SL's skillset you can reasonably expect to become a "hobbyist" in whatever field you choose... texturing (photoshop hobbyist), prim sculpting (CAD hobbyist), scripting (programming hobbyist), and so on. From there you have to apply yourself to move past the limited skillsets of SL and tackle something else, but it's usually a pretty effective springboard.

4) As long as there is a sustainable amount of stuff to buy in-world, without a huge stockpile of lindens lying around, the markets will remain stable.

SL can make an excellent second income but I don't think it's possible for it to be a primary income. That's not to say it isn't possible to make a fairly large amount of money but it would be too risky to depend on it for your living at this point.

Hmmm. Looks like I'm spending a lot of time in SL developing rl skills I will never use in real life!

coco

Thank you for the replies so far. I have to clarify that I am considering this as a secondary household income. The primary income is more than enough to support us with benefits. Our retirement is secure. And as they say "do what you enjoy most and the money will follow". But I want to do this with my eyes wide open and a good understanding of the risks.

I agree with this. I wouldn't say building in SL is directly transferable to building in Maya (although it works the other way around). Professional modelling tools have all kinds of other goodies such as lighting, rigging, and fun terms like nurbs and splines. But SL is certainly a good start and a nice place to plant your feet if your a beginner.

I do think SL is a great way to make a multimedia portfolio. Weather you do textures, animations, scripting, whatever... run some of your best stuff through Fraps and post it on the web or burn it to CD. I've scored a RL contract job for one resident, using snapshots of his builds to prove his competancy to the higher ups in our organization.

Also I think social skills are not to be overlooked. You learn how to talk the talk in SL, as well as find yourself in social situations that you are more comfortable in inworld than you would in real life. Those social skills will transfer....

As far as the overall, can you sustain yourself on SL? Look at all the comments above and then remember we only have 30k users... Phillip has said he wants to get to 1 million in 2 years.... think about the revenue oppurtunities when there are 33X the number of users today.

I remember the early days of the web... before banner ads... it was hard to see where any money would be made... at least the early days here are more clear.

It's certainly possible, but not easy.
I'm not american though, so I can live like a king on three times less money than you.


100%


Very transferrable, IMHO.


The L$ is irrelevant. Anyone worth working for will pay you in hard currency.

I've had these thoughts as well... this is certainly a safer bet, when the bills are already getting paid. To quite your job and start a business of any type is a huge, life changing decision that requires lots of introspection. Most business in RL fail, most business on the web fail, and there is no reason to believe this stat won't hold true for SecondLife. However, most business owners hope the payoff is worth it. Companies with an eye on the bigger pie, often are not profitable in the first year.... can you afford to make minimal income while you build your business to be ready for that 1 million user moment?

Relying on another company as the basis of your own company is certainly an uneasy thought... but how F*in cool would it be to make a living in the Metaverse (or building it)? I'd rather work 80 hours a week in/on SL, than 40 at my day job (which I enjoy actually).

Good points. If I have an entire portfolio of products a year from now go fully copy/mod/transfer (due to a SL bug) what would my recourse be? What are your experiences with Linden resolution of such problems? Would I basically be out a year's work?

I have no experience with this, but I'd supsect you'd be S.O.L.

I agree with Chip.

SL makes a great supplemental income, but there are too many things that could go wrong for me to make it my only household income. My internet connection could have downtime, SL could lose my inventory or my store could be returned, perm bugs could make all my stuff full perms, my computer could go kablooey, and of course someone could come along with a better product at better pricing and my business could take a nosedive.

All things I'll willingly risk for a second income, but not when it comes to food, shelter and quality of life.

Understood, I wouldn't be relying on this income for food. I guess the title is a bit misleading. This income would mainly be used to double pay the mortgage or for emergencies.

There are now several residents who make or could make their living off Second Life. Most are content creators and successfully hide their income figures to avoid problems with jealousy and possibly tax. Before I entered land business I was one of those content creators myself and on a per hour basis earned almost as much with animations as I made later with real estate.

My gestimate ranges from 1 per 2000 to 1 per 8000 residents able to earn RL salary off Second Life.

Anshe and Aimee are the ones that are correct.

You can, if you work very hard and diversify (you must have all talents - marketing skills, animation, scripting, building, clothing, etc) you can make 30K / day.

However, caveats:

1. The future of SL is uncertain. The transferability of LSL skills sucks, but hopefully the changeover to mono will fix that. The transferability of PhotoShop and Poser are pretty good.

2. If you do this, think about expanding the market and not simply trying to undercut it.

I don't say this for my benefit, trust me. I say this because undercutting the current market will work for a short time but there will be a race for the bottom and *your* future will not be secure in such a race.

This is why business people will never come into SL and undercut the current product offerings because they know there is no future in that. The race for the bottom is *not* a business model. It's a great way to blackmail someone into buying you out (not a lot of that will happen around here) but it is not a business model filled with lots of future revenue.

Unfortuantely, some naive / desperate / super technical talented individual *might* come in and ruin it for himself and everyone else. They will likely exhaust quickly and vanish, so I'm not too worried about this outcome.

So, expand the universe by innovating, creating new area for SL to move into .. like education and other areas that LL isn't doing yet. Things that will attract new and more people to SL, not just ones that will cannabalise the current offerings.


However, if you're willing to become a guru (just just good, but a *guru*) at all the things that make LL great then yes, you can make 30K / day. Beware of seasonality (less on mondays, more on fridays, etc)

Assuming LL doesn't kill itself first because because of technical problems, too much bandwidth, and other very evil roadblocks.

While 500 USD is very small in the US, in some European countries (eastern), people earn average(!) 600 USD per month, or maybe even less. Good programmers, graphics artists can earn from 1000 USD in just some lucky cases more near 2-3000 USD, but some salaries may start around 7-800 USD/month. (These numbers are AFTER taxes!)

30 000 L$/day (with 21 workdays a month) is 2520 USD, which could sustain a good life in these countries.
Though there are big risks with SL, with the L$, etc, so it's better finding a more stable RL work. And, of course, the L$ income is BEFORE taxes, which means it will be way less than 2520 USD after it.

Oh, BTW: A few days ago someone IM'd me asking if I knew any people who speak russian (he was a russian, I figure).

Globalism is not a risk.

You can't make money in SL racing for the bottom. If you tried to undercut, you'd wouldn't make 500 $ a month. Someone would just undercut you and you'd end up making 0$ per month.

Don't go on another crusade, blaze. There's no right or wrong here, since a lot of this information is based purely on conjecture and opinion.

Let's take Anshe's figures and say they are fact (for sake of example). Last quoted, Second Life has roughly 32,000 residents. That's about 16 residents who have "made it big." I don't find that a very high figure, IMHO.

Surely, if you work your ass off and know what you're doing, you can make a great income off Second Life. However, I feel in many cases that's little compared to working toward an honest career.

If you enjoy working hard in SL more, and it's your business, great. I feel that if I ever "work" in SL, it'll be as a Linden - due to job and income security and the fact they have a greater degree of influence on the world. But not for some time, since I live at the other end of the United States.

However, I have been contacted before from a real job or two through SL. I tend to turn these down because they can be very illuminati to me. Over time, though, these may easily be worthy pursuits for a real income.

-----

Switching gears a bit...


Legal taxation is another huge spectre over ventures like these. Would you consider tax evasion ethical?

I ask this because I've discussed the matter with a couple creators, and opinion tends to be split on this issue. I feel that the looming threat of taxation makes this practice far less palatable for the common person.

An honest career

There is nothing honest at all about working in a company or a corporation. Being self employed is the only honest career you'll ever engage in.

I'd try to explain it, but it's like trying to explain sex to a virgin. The only way you'll find out what's it like is if you try it.

Note, if you have been self-employed then you should realise that you honestly encounter your strenghts and weaknesses in a way you could never do so working in a narrow role where everything is taken care of for you, except of course, you're one particular narrow function in that company.

I'm going to ignore that statement because it's very naive, blaze. Try to be more civil and maybe I'll give you a real response.

Ahah, you're the one that made the distinction first.

Also, you'll notice that the statement wasn't necessarily directed at you. I'd say (and have said) the same thing to anyone.

You'll also notice that I wasn't heaping deragatory comments on your behaviour, unlike what you just did.

You're just upset because I have a strong opinion about something that invalidates your particular belief system.

Take heart, though. This has nothing to do with you.

Geez what is Second Life all about? Paying the bills or having fun? I confess I can pay my Second Life bills with my earnings here, and maybe a little more, but that is not why I am really here.