Second Life Forums Archive - SL on the XBox

Lupo Clymer

The Lost Pagan

Join date: 13 Mar 2005

Posts: 778

06-15-2005 14:24

From: Tiger Crossing

Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion will be out for both PC and XBOX 360. I know this because behind the window I'm typing this message into is a window running Oblivion. And there is an XBOX 360 beta kit right here on my desk. You can use almost the same code on the PC and XBOX/XBOX 360, but it does have to be recompiled. You can't push an EXE onto the console and expect it to run. It won't.

The XBOX won't have a keyboard. It COULD, sure. But it won't. (The first XBOX could have had one too, easily, but it never did. That's a clue.) The consoles are designed to apeal to as wide a target audience as possible. You, me, and everyone else in this forum may find it hard to believe, but most people sill use the words "I don't know anything about all this computer stuff" or something similar.

But they WILL buy a console system for their kids... Because it looks simple. There are just 14 buttons on an XBOX 360 controler (just counted mine) and 8 of them are hidden on the back, and they and the others are the same color as the body plastic. So really all you see at a glance are the four colored buttons (A,B,X,Y), the two sticks, and the d-pad. Nothing intimidating in that, unlike a typical keyboard with well over a hundred buttons. Keep it simple, keep it looking like a toy, and people will treat it like a toy and be as comfortable with it as they would with a toy. (They fact that it really IS a quite decent computer inside doesn't need to be rubbed in their faces.)

Second Life uses Open GL for it's 3D graphics. The XBOX is a Microsoft baby with custom video hardware, custom OS, etc. It's DirectX all the way. You can get Open GL to run on it I'm sure, but I wouldn't want to do it.

Trying to build things in SL with a spring-loaded joystick would be a nightmare.

Trying to communicate with other players in SL using an on-screen keyboard would be hell.

Trying to get the entire existing userbase of SL to switch to voice communication would be impossible.

There won't be SL for XBOX 360. There could very well be something very much like it! But such an entity would, at best, be a separate universe like the Teen Grid. (And it probably wouldn't be made by Linden Labs.)

Oh, and Oblivion will run equally well on PC and XBOX 360. The XBOX is greater challenge, however, because there isn't as much memory, and the hard drive is an optional configuration. All games must be capable of running without it.

OK you tell us, as a Bata tester or what ever you are. Will Xbox360 play PC games? If it why would they (even if not MS) not make a keybord? PS2 did but yet PS1 didn't.

_____________________

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Hate is not a family Value!
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I am a pagan, I vote! Do you?
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Jake Reitveld

Emperor of Second Life

Join date: 9 Mar 2005

Posts: 2,690

06-15-2005 14:44

Seems to me to be a whole lot of PC v. Console debate. I would not discount the power of consoles. My guess is that there are many more console gamers than PC gamers, and the consoles have significant power. I think somone (Bill gates) may bee seeking a revolution in the way we think about computers, and the "pc in the den" maybe something that goes the way of the dodo in a decade.

But really consoles represent a market, and thinking about how to tap that market, is not altogether a bad thing. In a game like where people are expected to dump cash in a t a high rate just to stay afloat, the procurement of a keyboard and mouse is not such a huge deal.

from the tenor of the posts I have read, there seems to be a strong sentiment to keep SL the way it is, we like our current high-end techie user profile. I play in both worlds and let me tell you, the PC uber l337's spew anti console rhetoric all the time. Of course the console gamers try very hard to insist that pCs won't do what consoles will, and fail.

For me the big thing is that the SL fanboys all seem to think the SL is the future of the net, but then are ironically opposed to doing things that make Sl accessible to the "common man." Like the assumtion is that noone has anything better to do with thier time than play SL.

I dunno. I don't see SL coming out for this next generation of consoles, but maybe, If SL is still around, for the the genreation after that.

_____________________

ALCHEMY -clothes for men.

Lebeda 208,209

cell Neutra

That's L$50k please

Join date: 26 Sep 2004

Posts: 28

06-15-2005 15:14

who cares about about XBOX, PS3

haha, bored and feel like writing. PS3 will be first to introduce cell-processor technology fronted by IBM, Sony and Toshiba, check it out, ultimate multi-tasking.

Tiger Crossing

The Prim Maker

Join date: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,560

06-15-2005 18:08

From: Lupo Clymer

OK you tell us, as a Bata tester or what ever you are. Will Xbox360 play PC games? If it why would they (even if not MS) not make a keybord? PS2 did but yet PS1 didn't.

I'm a programmer for Bethesda Game Studios. As I said in my post, a PC executable will not run on the XBOX 360. They can be easily recompiled to do so in most cases, however. Of course, they'll have to be written to run without a hard disk, use less than 512 MB of memory (some is held in reserve for the console's OS), and function with nothing more than a gamepad controller.

That last one can be a real clincher. A game's interface has to have been designed from the start with a console's controler in mind, or else it has to be completely reworked for the port.

Someone should make a Second Life-like game for consoles. That would be neat. But SL itself isn't cut out for it.

_____________________

~ Tiger Crossing
~ (Nonsanity)

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

06-15-2005 18:27

You can't hook up a keyboard to an xbox? What craziness is that about?

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Jeffrey Gomez

Cubed™

Join date: 11 Jun 2004

Posts: 3,522

06-15-2005 20:03

Note to self: Install Linux and Wine to my Xbox, and attempt to install Second Life.

That'll be amusing, but at least it'll put this debate to rest.

_____________________

---

splat1 Edison

Registerd Nut

Join date: 6 Sep 2004

Posts: 353

06-16-2005 03:31

heh, Currently you cant run SL on a normaly Xbox due to the wine overhead eating memory (only 64 megs in xbox's

)

If you can run linux on it you can make an emulator for a platform if it has the system specs to do it. But that still requires a linux client from LL.

SL on the PS3 ? give it time and some one will do it.

_____________________

Splat Soft - We exsist in the RL to!
Gigas Bunny (Mule)
####
You see, our experts describe you as an appallingly dull fellow, unimaginative, timid, lacking in initiative, spineless, easily dominated, no sense of humour, tedious company and irrepressibly drab and awful. And whereas in most professions these would be considerable drawbacks, in chartered accountancy they are a positive boon.

SL on the XBox
Lupo Clymer The Lost Pagan Join date: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 778	06-15-2005 14:24 From: Tiger Crossing Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion will be out for both PC and XBOX 360. I know this because behind the window I'm typing this message into is a window running Oblivion. And there is an XBOX 360 beta kit right here on my desk. You can use almost the same code on the PC and XBOX/XBOX 360, but it does have to be recompiled. You can't push an EXE onto the console and expect it to run. It won't. The XBOX won't have a keyboard. It COULD, sure. But it won't. (The first XBOX could have had one too, easily, but it never did. That's a clue.) The consoles are designed to apeal to as wide a target audience as possible. You, me, and everyone else in this forum may find it hard to believe, but most people sill use the words "I don't know anything about all this computer stuff" or something similar. But they WILL buy a console system for their kids... Because it looks simple. There are just 14 buttons on an XBOX 360 controler (just counted mine) and 8 of them are hidden on the back, and they and the others are the same color as the body plastic. So really all you see at a glance are the four colored buttons (A,B,X,Y), the two sticks, and the d-pad. Nothing intimidating in that, unlike a typical keyboard with well over a hundred buttons. Keep it simple, keep it looking like a toy, and people will treat it like a toy and be as comfortable with it as they would with a toy. (They fact that it really IS a quite decent computer inside doesn't need to be rubbed in their faces.) Second Life uses Open GL for it's 3D graphics. The XBOX is a Microsoft baby with custom video hardware, custom OS, etc. It's DirectX all the way. You can get Open GL to run on it I'm sure, but I wouldn't want to do it. Trying to build things in SL with a spring-loaded joystick would be a nightmare. Trying to communicate with other players in SL using an on-screen keyboard would be hell. Trying to get the entire existing userbase of SL to switch to voice communication would be impossible. There won't be SL for XBOX 360. There could very well be something very much like it! But such an entity would, at best, be a separate universe like the Teen Grid. (And it probably wouldn't be made by Linden Labs.) Oh, and Oblivion will run equally well on PC and XBOX 360. The XBOX is greater challenge, however, because there isn't as much memory, and the hard drive is an optional configuration. All games must be capable of running without it. OK you tell us, as a Bata tester or what ever you are. Will Xbox360 play PC games? If it why would they (even if not MS) not make a keybord? PS2 did but yet PS1 didn't. _____________________ --------------------------------------- Hate is not a family Value! --------------------------------------- I am a pagan, I vote! Do you? ---------------------------------------
Jake Reitveld Emperor of Second Life Join date: 9 Mar 2005 Posts: 2,690	06-15-2005 14:44 Seems to me to be a whole lot of PC v. Console debate. I would not discount the power of consoles. My guess is that there are many more console gamers than PC gamers, and the consoles have significant power. I think somone (Bill gates) may bee seeking a revolution in the way we think about computers, and the "pc in the den" maybe something that goes the way of the dodo in a decade. But really consoles represent a market, and thinking about how to tap that market, is not altogether a bad thing. In a game like where people are expected to dump cash in a t a high rate just to stay afloat, the procurement of a keyboard and mouse is not such a huge deal. from the tenor of the posts I have read, there seems to be a strong sentiment to keep SL the way it is, we like our current high-end techie user profile. I play in both worlds and let me tell you, the PC uber l337's spew anti console rhetoric all the time. Of course the console gamers try very hard to insist that pCs won't do what consoles will, and fail. For me the big thing is that the SL fanboys all seem to think the SL is the future of the net, but then are ironically opposed to doing things that make Sl accessible to the "common man." Like the assumtion is that noone has anything better to do with thier time than play SL. I dunno. I don't see SL coming out for this next generation of consoles, but maybe, If SL is still around, for the the genreation after that. _____________________ ALCHEMY -clothes for men. Lebeda 208,209
cell Neutra That's L$50k please Join date: 26 Sep 2004 Posts: 28	06-15-2005 15:14 who cares about about XBOX, PS3 haha, bored and feel like writing. PS3 will be first to introduce cell-processor technology fronted by IBM, Sony and Toshiba, check it out, ultimate multi-tasking.
Tiger Crossing The Prim Maker Join date: 18 Aug 2003 Posts: 1,560	06-15-2005 18:08 From: Lupo Clymer OK you tell us, as a Bata tester or what ever you are. Will Xbox360 play PC games? If it why would they (even if not MS) not make a keybord? PS2 did but yet PS1 didn't. I'm a programmer for Bethesda Game Studios. As I said in my post, a PC executable will not run on the XBOX 360. They can be easily recompiled to do so in most cases, however. Of course, they'll have to be written to run without a hard disk, use less than 512 MB of memory (some is held in reserve for the console's OS), and function with nothing more than a gamepad controller. That last one can be a real clincher. A game's interface has to have been designed from the start with a console's controler in mind, or else it has to be completely reworked for the port. Someone should make a Second Life-like game for consoles. That would be neat. But SL itself isn't cut out for it. _____________________ ~ Tiger Crossing ~ (Nonsanity)
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	06-15-2005 18:27 You can't hook up a keyboard to an xbox? What craziness is that about? _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Jeffrey Gomez Cubed™ Join date: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 3,522	06-15-2005 20:03 Note to self: Install Linux and Wine to my Xbox, and attempt to install Second Life. That'll be amusing, but at least it'll put this debate to rest. _____________________ ---
splat1 Edison Registerd Nut Join date: 6 Sep 2004 Posts: 353	06-16-2005 03:31 heh, Currently you cant run SL on a normaly Xbox due to the wine overhead eating memory (only 64 megs in xbox's ) If you can run linux on it you can make an emulator for a platform if it has the system specs to do it. But that still requires a linux client from LL. SL on the PS3 ? give it time and some one will do it. _____________________ Splat Soft - We exsist in the RL to! Gigas Bunny (Mule) #### You see, our experts describe you as an appallingly dull fellow, unimaginative, timid, lacking in initiative, spineless, easily dominated, no sense of humour, tedious company and irrepressibly drab and awful. And whereas in most professions these would be considerable drawbacks, in chartered accountancy they are a positive boon.

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SL on the XBox