Request for Dispute Resolution

I have a specific request to forums readers in particular to form a three-person dispute resolution team to gather evidence quickly and present their findings. This could be an informal, workable model for anybody to resolve their chronic forum flame problems and malice inside the game, so let's try to give it a go.

An individual in the community who everyone thinks has a good reputation is rampantly and maliciously spreading slander about me, and has been for some time, due to personal baggage issues. It recently came to my attention accidently. That person goes to older players especially to fuel their anger against me on the forums over disagreement on the issues, and powers some of the nastiest posts we are seeing here on the forums.

This person has slandered my business reputation and me personally by claiming that my rentals business, and the buying and selling of first land, constitutes a "scheme separating newbies from first land" and a "scam". They've systematically gone to newbies and told them they shouldn't do business with Prokofy.

There is absolutely no evidence for these claims, they seem to be based on an impression of a hearsay or a hearsay, but this person is continuing to wreck havoc everywhere with these claims and both scaring away my customers and adding to the flames on the forum against me needlessly, even inciting some to blackmail using RL information. That's unconscionable, and I won't stand for it. I hope that anyone reading this, despite your personal dislikes of me or my postings, can understand the larger issues here and try to see that any "poison ivy" or "poisoning of the well" in this fashion could happen to you, too.

We don't have any dispute mechanism in the game tools or the game culture, even -- the usual tactic seems to be to flame somebody to death in the forums, hound them out of the game, and take over their land LOL. But I refuse to buckle.

I'd like to call on three members of the community -- any three at random -- residents of SL who read the forums and are willing to engage on these issues, to come forward and be on a dispute panel -- just post here if you will do that.

Ideally, we'd have one person who doesn't know me but hates my guts, loathes what I say on the forums, has nothing but a curled lip of contempt for the real estate business, and believes I engage in scamming of newbies.

Then we would have the second person be someone who doesn't know me, but who either supports my posts or at least believes they are harmless and just an expression of opinion. They should be supportive or neutral of the real estate business in general.

The third person would be someone who knows well both me and the party slandering me. I can think of one such person but since she is a tenant, I think it would be best to find a non-tenant.

These three people just need to have one meeting or IM session where they get the allegations from the slandering party, they get the facts from me, and then they contact perhaps 6-10 newbies at most and ask them their story -- were they scammed or not?

I'd also like to further this process by asking anybody who has been approached by me to buy first land or rent from me to post their experiences whether they were good or bad. This will only further the dispute resolution process so don't be shy.

I dont want to keep filing ARs that go nowhere, I don't want to be constantly harassed in this game, so I'd like this to be a rapid and open process whereby we establish that my business is a good one, or we establish that there are some individuals who may believe they have been scammed, in which case the panel determines if they need some compensation (I'm confident they will find no such cases).

I haven't been on the forums in about 4 months, and do not know your personality or reputation, it is irrelevant. If you buy land for a price, offer it to another and they agree on the deal; it is called Capitalism. Being a 3rd Party or whatever; the deal is struck and the client was willing to pay. You offer a service for finding and or aquiring land for a client, you make your prices the way you see fit. And it could happen even in my business. Slander and degredation of and individuals business is a crime in itself in my book. High profile clients as well as newbies come to me for my services.

Prices are not set by one individuals blabber mouth, it is set by the merchant. The client has a right to agree or refuse. A newbie though not very knowledgable about pricing and or trade practices is not the merchants fault, it is simply ignorance and solely the responsiblity of the client to shop to find what they want and are willing to pay for.

I don't know you Prok and have never spoken with you inWorld and have followed some of your threads and posted that you have been nasty to some fine SL residents.

Having said that - if what you say is true - it is not appropriate and have you abuse reported this person? This step #1 as I'm sure you know.

_/_/

Well, it ain't me who's doing this, either. That having been said, and noting that Prokofy stated that he has filed "AR's that go nowhere" -

You sound like you're volunteering to be a test-case for a player-participation dispute resolution process. To establish some precedent. Otherwise, if it's just a "one-time thing", it's kind of a waste of time.

Take this over to the "political science" forum, where it belongs. And btw, if this is what's happening to you, I'm sorry. It's not right, but you're right: something should be done, and you're within your rights to explore the possibilities without ridicule.


edited for a typo

Prokofy, I have to say that I have very limited sympathy for your plight. If you think that your reputation problems are the result of one malicious person I'd say that you're correct, and that the malicious person is none other than yourself. I have no knowledge of the way you conduct your in world business and make no assumptions about it, but surely you must understand that how you comport yourself in the forums can have a dramatic impact on how you're perceived in world. I'd imagine that your constant and voluminous expressions of disdain haven't served you very well. You've achieved a kind of legendary status which inevitably will get augmented with speculation, false assumptions, and exaggeration. If there are a lot of people in world who hold a negative view of you I'd say the person you really should be upset with is you. All that said, if someone is truly spreading slander about you then the proper course of action is to file abuse reports... however a more effective course of action would be to work hard to change your reputation through your own words and actions. I hope you're able to do that over time because I think you're a smart person with a lot to offer but I'm generous that way... 85% of your posts make me want to smack you upside the head.

I am 90% certain I know who you're referring to. The only comfort I can offer is that he's more of a loon than you are and I'm pretty sure almost no one takes him seriously, and that most definitely not everyone thinks he has a good reputation.

In general, someone going to lengths to slander another player is saying far more about themselves than anything they might say about the other player.

Blake has summed up the issue very well. He's talking about norms of capitalism, and capitalist societies. These norms are lacking in SL. Instead, there are the norms of socialism and medieval guildism or worse. They need to change. Blake is right about this and other things like the events posting stuff, and the culture of the game will change, although obviously with some growing pains from those howling the most about their socialist and medieval guild privileging and subsidies.

Merwan, the individuals have been AR'd, that's the norm. Even twice. Even with phone calls. And while it is being taken seriously, and is being investigated, it takes time. So I would also like to encourage player-based solutions.

I'm glad you see the generic issues, too, Seth. There's hope for this world with people in it like you who might dispute me in the forums, hate my style or methods, but get the larger principles involved. As with most civil rights and civil liberties issues, you'll care more about them when they happen to be yours that are violated. Sure, move this to the government thread, I'm happy to be a guinea pig, I want long-lasting solutions for everyone. Troikas aren't my idea of fun, but it's a quick and workable solution for this chronic festering problem.

Chip, your scolding and net-nanny hectoring tone is just silly because you can't set yourself up as judge and jury and nanny for a little family of a game, to which you think I need a pass from you, when the game is so much bigger and growing by the day. We just walk around you. You're scolding me and giving me character lessons like Ward to Wally in Leave it To Beaver. YOu think that helpful little paternalistic lectures like "you're your own worse enemy" or "you're shooting yourself in the foot" are going to "work" on me and "bring me into line." I'm afraid not. This isn't some little town in the 1950s, except maybe on your lot. I take forceful, vehement positions because of a really serious problem in this game: a climate of anti-commerce, hobbling of business, privileging of an elite group of players, and their ability to use malice and the game's mechanisms to undermine you if they disagree with you. That's not an open, liberal, tolerant game space which you need to thrive and grow.

It's too bad that of the four people who took the time to post here, not a single one could have just sat on this little temporary panel to pass around a few IMs and talk to the newbies in question. An hour later, you'd have some findings and we'd all be moving on. Try to think about that.

Silly me, and here I thought that was exactly what you were asking for

Hehe, nice one Chip. But you aren't getting. I ask you to be a jury on a specific panel on a specific case to find specific facts, and you can't handle that. You can't handle looking at the truth LOL. You can't handle process, like a real judge or a real jury.

The expression "setting oneself up as judge AND jury" means being biased because it means you are taking two roles in an adversarial judicial processs which should be kept separate. You can't be judge AND jury.

And no, you can't be judge and/or jury in a generic sense about what I don't do or do do in this game as I see it. Yet you arrogate that role to yourself and incite others to do so.

I get where you're coming from Prok. I'm telling you why I couldn't be an impartial participant, and that it's probably the same for many others. What I offered you instead was good advice, but as usual you'd rather point the finger instead of accepting that your plight is a direct result of your own words and actions... and more than anything else that's why I find it impossible to be unbiased towards you. Your own bias is too big to get past.

Yes, and this is exactly why a process might be needed: Because even people like Prokofy deserve justice, and they may not be able to get it from people who may normally try to be fair-minded and responsible.

And, wince though I might in saying this, even people like Prokofy can make a good point about such things.

Well at the risk of being labelled Prokofy's Alt, I would point out that his posts are longer than many others, but they are no more vitrolic or condescending than any others. I think he is asking the community to step up and say as much as a person may be disliked, it is wrong for another to accuse him of fraud without supporting evidence.

I cannot serve on this panel as Prok is my landlord. BUt I can say as a newbie, I didn't feel fleeced at all.

This is a perfect example of your twisted view of things. All AR information is kept private, that does not mean it is not examined and evaluated on its merits. You, Prokofy are no exception to this rule, so your hogwash about "going nowhere" is meaningless and imflammatory.

Great, first step taken.

Suggested 2nd step - if you are sincere about wanted mediation, then call for mediation and leave the nuts and bolts of how it will could work to those who offer to mediate between you and the other party.

You a party requesting mediation can accept/reject or suggest modifications to the structure of mediation offered - but it's wise not to try to influence how the mediation will work as a precondition.

_/_/

The notion of a "council of peers" seems flawed to me. It's an attempt to formalise mob justice, by defining who the mob is.

I say that regardless of the alleged incident(s) one should put oneself in the others' shoes. As a customer of Linden Labs I would in no way suggest or support any system, procedure, or policy that would give any potential power to anyone but Linden Labs to infringe upon my subscription to SL. Why? Because humans are dorks and unpredictable. This includes Linden Labs, but I at least have something of a contract with them -- I pay them, they let me play so long as I follow their rules. If I don't think they're upholding their end of the bargain I can easily withhold my money. End of story.

I didn't sign (technically, click an "Accept" button) such an agreement with anyone else here, and I intend to keep it that way

Well, Meilan, I can share your concerns about troika-like justice, but then I guess it would be up to LL to step up to the plate and say, "We do not allow this because it is individual and group attacks which constitutes harassment and violation of the TOS." And while impromptu, player-based dispute resolution efforts may seem like crap to you and "mob justice," I will say that these three, who probably aren't really my friends and supporters at the end of the day, as unknown as they are, are preferable to me than the mob justice I have right now instigated by one soured individual spreading slander to a lot of willing ears.

This is the council announced to me:

Darko Cellardoor
Taco Rubio
pandastrong Fairplay

I don't know any of these people at all. That is, I think I ran into Taco once the other day and exchanged like a sentence with him, I have no idea what his views on life are other than that they include the need to wear tophats LOL. pandastrong I know has hated my views and even slammed my classified ads, but when it came to anti-gay signs on my lawn, he said, that's wrong, and expressed solidarity. Darko Cellardoor I've never heard of, honest to God, if he's important I hope he's not offended but there it is.

If you three are not being silly and ridiculing me, contact me in the game and I will give you the relevant names to follow through with of the person making the slanderous statements, the newbs in question, the existing tier donators, etc. And I would urge all of you to keep an open mind and gather all evidence if you can find it pro or con.

Actually I was being silly but ridiculing us, not you. We are totally useless.

And this would not be considered slander by you against another because...?

Because it's not?

Because the facts can be found with due diligence?

Because once you contact the newbs and hear the stories you can easily figure out that it is slander, and render a reading on it?

I am disappointed that pandastrong et. al. were just kidding around, but whatever, another 3 can step up to the plate if they are willing to be adults and not 20-something hectoring hedonists.

Don't know you, have no opinion of you, have never taken the time to fully read your posts. If you would like me to sit on a serious mediation panel, IM me IW. If the other party involved is also someone I don't know, I'll be happy to help. If I do know the other party involved positively or negatively, I'll have to bow out.

Sincerely,

Trinity

Even though you don't state it, truth is often recognized as the most compelling defense against an accusation of slander. However, people with a layman's knowledge of jurisprudence - or anyone who even saw the O. J. Simpson trial - knows that "truth" is a terribly slippery concept. The slipperiness increases when you are relying on people's recollection of past conversations. Indeed, there are likely few if any "facts" about this matter.

Furthermore as you'd be naming the affiants in your defense and your reputation is less than stellar, there is a reasonable likelihood that your hand-picked affiants are shills. Anyone attempting to mediate as you request is on a fools errand: unreliable testimony, from repudiatable sources who can neither be subpoenaed or sworn is a mockery of justice. Finally, given your last paragraph above, you aren't looking for a panel of impartials but rather a cheering section. Pfft!.

I'd been slandered in-game, had to answer more silly inquiries than I deserved, but I got over it and ultimately my reputation was unsullied as my conduct and words were and are consistent and generally kind.

The fault, Dear Prok, is not in your stars, but in yourself. But better rhetoricians than I have already failed to convince you of this. 'Tis a shame as you are a pretty accomplished builder in-game.

Gee Chip. 99% of your posts want me to smack you upside the head.

I think I'm going to go tell everyone not to buy things from Chip Midnight, because he's out to scam you!

Does this make sense to you? I doubt it. So maybe you should re-think.

Prokofy, you need an in-game and in-forum attorney to speak for you, and convince you to stand there, nod, and smile.

You know how people are going to react. You had something significant going there earlier today, but now you're tearing it all down.

You're cute when you make threats. If I was being particularly anal I could file an abuse report about it and let LL decide if you're over the line or not... because it's their job to do that, not ours... do you understand the point? I doubt it.