render tests
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Mike Westerburg
Who, What, Where?
Join date: 2 May 2004
Posts: 317
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09-08-2005 13:16
From: Pol Tabla At that point what will people do for privacy? Aside from private islands, people will have very little recourse except for third party security scripts, which I imagine will become super-annoying in a future where builds are more evenly distributed throughout the sky; it's like Cubey Terra's worst nightmare. Hopefully LL has some kind of privacy solution (i.e. better land tools) in the works which preserves some semblance of airborne travel across the grid. From what I have gathered, it looks like what will be rendered is going to be in direct relation to the client's hardware capabilities. As with other options, most may play with the extended render capability but most likely drop back down to tolerable levels due to local client induced lag (or your GPU gets puked out of your floppy drive). The capability for render engine may be there but will we actually want to use it, cosidering textures and shapes are only a few of the items that would get rendered. How about particle effects, would they be rendered at that distance too and wouldn't that introduce more potential lag to the client? (potential high altitude greifer lag monster type bomb?) Also, another item, if you are below the clouds, would you actually be able to see past the clouds to that level or would the clouds block the view?(I know, the clouds can be turned off so moot point) One other idea, if the rendering depth does not reach say 3,000 Meters it is possible to take a low prim "skybox" with *ahem* "special" poses linked in and ready to go using a cheap heli style script and turning physics off, you just couldn't edit it or rez anything out and would need to fly up via an aircraft of some sort (potential future market being created here? A Portable Love Shack per say?)
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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09-08-2005 13:16
From: Pol Tabla At that point what will people do for privacy? The same thing they do now, nothing effective. If a person wants genuine privacy, they have to use an estate. There is no possibility of privacy on the mainland. Thanks for the comments Yedwab. We always appreciate info from the back room.
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Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
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09-08-2005 13:38
Like... the oft-demanded selective rendering of parcels, but working the other way (i.e. NOT rendering your parcel on others' clients unless they enter) ?
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Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
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09-08-2005 13:41
From: Pol Tabla ...it's like Cubey Terra's worst nightmare. Actually my worst nightmare involves three George Bush, Kraft Dinner, and a 3 legged llama. <shudder>  I can't wait for the render engine improvements -- if and when they arrive. I want to see what's ahead before I crash into it!
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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09-08-2005 13:54
From: Yedwab Linden
Eggy Lippmann is correct, the 1.7 world map is generated using the new renderer, but without textures or special effects. Very perceptive.
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
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09-08-2005 14:15
From: Cubey Terra Actually my worst nightmare involves threeGeorge Bush, Kraft Dinner, and a 3 legged llama. <shudder> I can't wait for the render engine improvements -- if and when they arrive. I want to see what's ahead before I crash into it! I have clearly underestimated your powers of morbid imagination. |
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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09-08-2005 14:43
From: Cubey Terra Actually my worst nightmare involves threeGeorge Bush, Kraft Dinner, and a 3 legged llama. <shudder> I can't wait for the render engine improvements -- if and when they arrive. I want to see what's ahead before I crash into it! (Aimee rapidly changes the itinerary for her date with Cubey) |
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Nyoko Salome
kittytailmeowmeow
Join date: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,378
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nyak!!
09-08-2005 15:36
From: Aimee Weber (Aimee rapidly changes the itinerary for her date with Cubey) LOL!!  q: how's the light handling for night scenes? omg... i'd love to fly over 'tronscape'... p.s. and i'd love to see more preview pics too!!
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Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
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09-09-2005 11:56
From: Yedwab Linden Hi all!
I know you guys are drooling over the screenshots - I am and I'm one of the coders working on it. Here are my comments:
Eggy Lippmann is correct, the 1.7 world map is generated using the new renderer, but without textures or special effects. Very perceptive.
Introvert Petunia: There is a lot more Level of Detail work going into the new renderer, and yes there will be fundamental changes in the way assets are handled that will enable long-distance views on hardware which is capable. In principle, once you've flown near a sim, the objects you download will persist on your disk (just without updates). It would be nice to be able to see landmarks off in the distance, or fly by sims at a high speed without downloading all the minutia.
Jessica Qin: There are different dev teams working on Havok 2 and rendering. Since the new renderer involves major architecture changes, it'll take a lot longer.
Don't be expecting too many screen shots in the near future, because we're mostly in the R&D phase and the look is changing constantly. Sweeeet! I have so many questions, like the Night time question asked above, and particles, and will avatars change? And will the stars actualy be server side so we don't have randomly generated stars that can't be mapped? And lighting? And cloud improvement? And and and... *head splodes* I can't wait. I'm more excited for the new renderer than most other features (even more than Havok 2, but don't tell Andrew)! Know what has me the most excited? Is replacing that ugly ass sun we have now. I hate it. Hate hate hate. Sorry to whoever made it, but it sucks. 
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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09-09-2005 12:09
From: Oz Spade Know what has me the most excited? Is replacing that ugly ass sun we have now. I hate it. Hate hate hate. Sorry to whoever made it, but it sucks. I'm a sunrise expert, if only because I closely watched hundreds of them in SL. I HATE IT TOO! GRRR! Hahaha... well it was great for a time, but the world... can I say the days keep turning while the sun keeps churning? You know what would rule? Having a database of suns and moons to cycle through, randomly or cyclically... you could have some realistic ones, some anime-stylized ones, just more variation for now. After all, the sun+moon DO change on certain holidays so nothing too "off" about that. If you didn't like a given set, you could just choose a Debug option and reset or use a sunpicker at will. Lineage 2... http://vnmedia.ign.com/screenshots/l2/27203885.jpg Not the most technically accurate but the styling is deeply emotional and poetic. It makes me weep with joy! I know this seems to border on extravagance but... sun and moon are such fundamental parts of our offline existence, so they are recognized in SL this way to some extent as well. I mean, what if all the grass was colored purple, or you removed the heavenly bodies period? It's easy to take for granted. From here on goes ideas of different skyboxes, and gets even more elaborate... But fundamentally, consider this—we can manipulate prims in so many ways but the forces of "nature" are still largely beyond our control. That's telling. |
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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09-11-2005 01:51
Worst thing about the sun's gotta be it's damned reflection; ugly ugly ugly.  |
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Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
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09-11-2005 08:13
From: AJ DaSilva Worst thing about the sun's gotta be it's damned reflection; ugly ugly ugly. Yup. The sun and the moon both have a similar reflection that completely defies common sense when it comes to rendering a reflection. First of all, there should *be* no reflection, because in RL there's no perfectly reflective surface on the ground or even on the water that creates a perfect reflection. The exception is perfectly smooth ponds, but SL doesn't have those, really. Second, if there were a smooth reflective surface big enough to reflect the sun or moon, to stretch the image like that, the surface would have to be quite convex and a great distance away, *underground*. (Assuming the ground is invisible.) Third, in RL when you see a bright patch on the water under the sun or the moon, that's massive diffusion that causes that effect, and you can see no details or even shape. If LL were to create a diffusion bitmap and place it below the horizon, THEN it might approximate RL. As it is, it looks so completely wonky that I consider it the single most jarring rendering mistake in SL. Every time I see it, I cringe. Is it just me? Please LL, just drop the silly stretched sun/moon. Pleeeeese? 
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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09-11-2005 08:18
Not sure if anyone has noticed but in 1.7 the sun no longer reflects over the ground, thats been a bug since beta apparently and finally fixed.
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TommyGun Stonecutter
Yo-Yo Geek
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 19
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09-11-2005 13:55
From: Cubey Terra As it is, it looks so completely wonky that I consider it the single most jarring rendering mistake in SL. Every time I see it, I cringe.
Is it just me? Nope, I completely agree. The first time I saw it I was all, "What the hell is that?! Now that doesn't make a lick 'a sense!" Just awful. |
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a lost user
Join date: ?
Posts: ?
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09-11-2005 14:16
I sure hope 1.7 doesn't make SL unplayable on my Radeon 9000!
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Neil Protagonist
FX Monkey
Join date: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 346
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09-13-2005 12:40
Its been some time since I have looked at these pics, and I too noticed the sun change, however what I am most curious about is if this sun change is in fact a different texture or if it is now being rendered additively and if so does that mean we will have the ability to set something as additive or perhaps some other rendering styles aside from the current alpha or non alpha? Something like Mod2x or Additive would be GREATLY GREATLY appreciated. At least by me.
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Huns Valen
Don't PM me here.
Join date: 3 May 2003
Posts: 2,749
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09-13-2005 13:37
From: Yedwab Linden Don't be expecting too many screen shots in the near future, because we're mostly in the R&D phase and the look is changing constantly. It would be interesting to see them anyway, even if we knew they were likely to change. |
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paulie Femto
Into the dark
Join date: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,098
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here here
09-13-2005 21:56
I agree with Huns. Lindens, please please keep up the screenshots! We love that stuff!
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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09-14-2005 07:48
What I would absolutely murder for would be a shot of the main grid using the new map renderer. When the heck does 1.7 get out of preview?
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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09-14-2005 07:53
Hopefully not for a while yet, im still testing and reporting bugs.
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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09-14-2005 08:52
Slightly off topic, Fractal Mandela has created the Society for Proper Rendering of Inworld Graphics group specifically to address the problem of out-of-order alpha rendering. We'll spend a few days recruiting those who need to see this bug addressed, compile a list of questions and examples for the rendering team, and find out how open to discussion said team is.
Rather than mob LL with numbers of members and reams of input, we'd like to compile a reasonable set of reproducable effects and queries from those of us who are having to consistently work around the bug as I do with plants and Fractal does with semitransparent cylinders. IM Fractal Mandela or myself for an invitation.
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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09-14-2005 09:11
From: someone I sure hope 1.7 doesn't make SL unplayable on my Radeon 9000! Then hop into the preview and test it out - if it doesn't work, report bugs! http://www.SecondLife.com/preview/
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Oz Spade
ReadsNoPostLongerThanHand
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 2,708
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09-16-2005 16:56
From: Neil Protagonist Its been some time since I have looked at these pics, and I too noticed the sun change, however what I am most curious about is if this sun change is in fact a different texture or if it is now being rendered additively and if so does that mean we will have the ability to set something as additive or perhaps some other rendering styles aside from the current alpha or non alpha? Something like Mod2x or Additive would be GREATLY GREATLY appreciated. At least by me. It looks like a particle or something to that effect to me. However I could be wrong. It'd be great if it actualy SHINED, instead of just sat there. And I agree with Huns, even if it's just in testing, ANYTHING would be appreciated just to look at as eye candy. Changes or not!
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