Evil Markup Badness

Don't mind you speaking for me at all in this regard -- the objective for me was always to allow more and more freedoms -- looking over the world and seeing what cool and new things people do with your stuff is extremely gratifying -- probably ranking as one of the biggest joys I've gotten in SL.

Giving someone to freedom to take these new creations and be able to pass them on for others seems a natural extention of that, and something that was worth working towards..

Sure, I could restrict everything I make, that would be very very easy -- mind you it would also be easy for others to 'do the right thing' too.

In the end I can't put it down to one simple thing that leaves me disheartened.. The price jacking, the demands that I fix the resold items that have been passed on broken, the demands that I refund the difference between my original items and the resold, or the neg ratings...
(the neg ratings I find rather humorous -- because the whole rating system is such BS)

I do think that the 'warning' graffitti at the store puts the mentality of these people in the best light..
Think about it for a while and I'm sure you'll find the irony in there - on so many many levels.
The idea of 'punishing' someone over them not liking you selling thier stuff -- 'destroying' your livelyhood, which you make off the back of another without contributing to the world... (in many cases DETRACTING by the removal of perms!)

It's like cooking the goose that lays the golden egg

Anyways I said most of what I wanted to say on the other thread -- I'll just end it with:

It's been real

Siggy.

Siggy has removed all of his items from the GNU Wave store.

So, to those who insist on reselling another person's work.. To those who insist on demanding a gifthorse also be your own personal workhorse.. to those who neg rate because they don't like being undercut, or because they don't like a group name or a modifiable item's color... and most especially to Raol and the stupid tw*ts that had him grief the store.. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY YOU MORONIC F#CKTARDS!

Now you'll have to get a clue and some talent and build your own stuff. Well done.

Last night I was passed a beautiful sauna room, a creative and wonderful item that was derived from several things I had made and put out, wonderfully crafted and reworked into something new and interesting..

...There are a LOT of good people out there, far more infact than there are idiots.

The rub is that the good people of the world don't take any of your time, nor do they detract from your experience here - they enhance it.. The 10% of people though have the ability to take ALL your time. And when it comes to the point that you no longer have time to create things, you have to question if it's worth it...

It only took one rocketlauncher to bring bingo to it's knees...
That was 1 person - versus 30 that were happily playing.

There are rumblings that new additions to the permission systems are being thought about -- I hope there are.

If that comes to pass I'll be glad to try again.

Siggy.

The past couple of threads with this regards brings up an interesting ethical issue - what are our expectations on ownership rights & IP in RL vs SL.

I admit, I am rather protective of my IP on SL. However when you compare that to RL you dont really care if you sell something, and then someone else sells it. True it may hurt a bit if its a gift and someone sells it. But on SL we become total nazis over ownership rights.

Why? I think its to do with the fact that in SL we have means of contacting every owner AND creator of an object. try doing that in RL please. A lot harder.


Waying into the debate - and perhaps to throw a more realistic feel into SL, its my opinion that once someone owns something, they have the right to resell it BUT, like in RL, if its "used" it should therefore be cheaper - just like you buying something that doesnt get used, and you decide to sell it off cheaper in a garage sale.

Yes, I think there should be an appropriate option in the object properties to have a "max resell value" to be set by the creator, which cannot be edited by the owner, and I would like to see this as a feature request.

Siggy, I am extremely sorry to here that you have pulled or your works for GNU - I for one was a fan on your work, and hope sometime in the future you may be able to resume serving those in need

I won't comment on the moral aspects of this issue, other than to say that I feel the permission tools in SL could use some further improvement.

What I did want to mention is an idea that may have been stated already (if it has, I apologize. I shamefully admit I do not diligently read all the forum threads). When feasible, why not slip a no modify notecard in the item for sale (or free) with a note that says something similar to:

"Hopefully you did not pay more than <your price> for this item. It is a creation of <your name> intended to be sold <your location>. If you purchased this item from another source, be aware that you might have paid too much. As the creator of this item, I would like to invite you to <your store> where you may find other items like this one, for reasonable prices."

While it certainally will not stop anyone from marking up the price, it does provide a way to spread information to consumers, which may negatively affect the reputation of the person selling it, as well as provide information to the customer about the original source.

After all, no one enjoys discovering they have been ripped off.

It's not a silver bullet, but it might help indirectly.

With regards,
Antagonistic Protagonist

ROFLMAO! I could have gotten that for free? I bought one for 200 to match the one Sen gave me. Doh!




I think part of the problem is lack of a proper analogy. Say you set out a stack of CDs for free, each CD has your name and contact information on it. Someone grabs a handful of them walks around the corner and starts selling them for 10 bucks each. Say a few of these CDs don't play, or people don't like the music, now you have angry people calling you, saying they want their money back. What do you do other than get pissed?

Kris, I think most the backlash you got was the knee jerk reaction from you putting the responsibility on the buyer. If they don't get it from you than poo poo on them. I know that is where my issue was at. I mean hey, even in my perfect all knowingness, I have bought free stuff. That means common people must do it all the time.

Not only that you could have gotten one, copied it as many times as you likes and changed all the textures

As for the second question re CD's what do I do?

Well in RL I get the guy and I beat him the shit out of him.

But alas, this isn't real life, and so we gotta find other methods

I just hope a few more ppl are silly enough to set up lil stores like this in Rausch, that really lifted my spirits heheh

Siggy.

I can symphatize with the split feelings of wanting to share you created things with others and the need to protect your rights.

My RL job is deeply involved with Linux do I am well aware of the GNU and GPL concepts.

Why don't we do something about this situation; something that the game has given us the ability to. Lets create an Artisans Guild. (i'd do it but I'm *very* short on L$ at the moment).

We can use this group to further the interests of the Artisan: To protect their rights as Artisan's (builders and and scipters alike) as well asl promote the sale of their goods.

We can promote those rights by keeping the public informed of those rights.

The first thing that comes to mind is to create a group owned sign that is immediatly recognizable and place it at everywhere a sanctioned sale is taking place.

i.e., if there is an open air market, the consumer will know to look for this sign in their booth, meaning that the seller is the creator of that object/script or is authorized to sell that item as a reseller.

Something like "look for the union label" but without all the socialist bullshit assoicated with being in a union.

To keep the sign meaningful, we'll have to have some restrictions on it's use; I'll leave that to the thread to hash out.

It is not the solution, but it is a start.

--
Androclese Torgeson
Mount Olympus - Federal
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." -Theodore Roosevelt

The problem isn't that people don't know, the problem is that people don't care.

There are hundreds of people that 'get it' and benefit - even those who have never heard of FSF, Linux, Open Source, or any other of the myriad of terms/names/movements.. and they STILL get it.

Then there are a handfull of people that ignore and do whatever benefits themselves. They totally understand what they're doing. It's not a hard concept to get your head around. Because in the end they simply don't care about anything other than getting the most benefit from the least amount of effort....

Try talking with these folks for 5 minutes and you'll see exactly what I mean - the arguments range from mock ignorance, to indignation, to blame transferance and even cry they are being 'victimised'.

Some of the better ones I have heard are 'if you really wanted to help us new people you would give us things to sell and make money -- or better, why not just give us money?'

"Well making my own things takes too much time.. it's too hard.. and I really can't be bothered with all that"

"Well it's your fault! You should charge more!"

"WHAT? I MADE THIS!" (looks at creator) "You sure about that!" "YES, well no, it says creator Nobody" (looks again) "You sure about that?" "Yes, well it MAY say something different to you but it says nobody to me!"

Or my absolute all time #1 favorite..

"Well I'm selling (this free hottub) at higher price because I HAVE added value to it"
"How is that? , its still even in the original color!"
"Well, now it's easier to find, I made the box bigger"
"Oh, and you took away copy and modify... why?"
"Well, I don't want someone ripping me off!"

In hindsight it is pretty damn funny.

Siggy.

Yeah, those are the kinds of people I 'accidentally' like to clip with the car bumper, then claim I simply didn't know that would be wrong, and that it's their own fault for making themselves a target.

That's fun too, especially at high velocity.

ROFLMAO