Tell Congress: Stop the rush to erode our civil liberties

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/opinion/12175029.htm

Call your US congressional reps, today. Patriot Act re-authorization steamrolling through congress.

http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

Today is a bad day to post this. The Pro Patriot Act people have been saying the Trains/Bus boming in London was because they do not have a Law like the Patriot Act. I disagree with this but it will make it hard for people to get made or moved about the act.I for one fell it is really the UnPatriot Act.

That's exactly why today is a good day to post this. Don't let this fear mongering get to you, peeps!!

It bears repeating again:

I'm really hoping that the American people are not naive enough to believe that allowing the FBI to paw through our underwear drawers or snoop through our reading material without our knowledge (or permission) will make us less vulnerable to attacks by determined terrorists.

The frustrating part of it though, is that when something happens, people tend to react (as opposed to delivering actions based on well thought out solutions) and then pass laws that can be and probably will be, turned against the American populace. It makes them feel like they are at least doing something - like they have some modicum of control.

If the ridiculous (and ineffective/for show) security that was put in place at airports after 911 is any indicator of what will soon take place, then I'm seriously concerned that our freedom as we know it is gone forever.

Passing the Patriots Act is playing right into the terrorists hands - it's forcing us to live in the same environment that they do. That is; enforcement of their laws through terror, fear and the ubiquitous arm of [Islamic in their case] enforcers.

But your right Paolo, our freedom is still worth the effort of calling and writing our representatives.


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Yep, because we all know that the Patriot Act gives law enforcement psychic powers. Did anyone see the recent story about how the FBI has built up files of thousands of pages on the ACLU, Greenpeace, and similar organizations? Given the kind of shit that's already going on I can't believe people are dumb enough to think that giving the government greater powers to spy on US citizens is a good idea. Does no one study history anymore? To the radical law and order folks dissent of any kind equals "terrorism."

Yes, and I see what they are capable of doing now as "state terrorism".

I will state below why it’s bad because it will go along with the reply to Rose. I did like your Quote even thought it was wrong. He was not talking this kind of safty and liberty. If any thing he this would be good to use for kids at military age. Go to war and serve the greater good and all. That to would be wrong but worth wild. When he stated it it was to go to war angst the English.




I think most are. Most people feel a few things. 1) I am doing nothing worng and there for do not fare this so why do you? I would agree but point out that it’s unconstitional. 2) They feel this is what is needed for safety. If you disagree look at the drug war. To many of the rights were taken away then and people said “We got to get the drugs off the streets”. Most people in the US fall in to one of two category. Don’t care or Naïve. We here talking about this now are not part of that groups.



This is the other big problem. Bob Barr former Rep for the 7th District of Georgia in the U. S. House of Representatives voted for it. He is now talking against it. I would like to say he has seen the light, my real guess is he is just trying to get back in to the House or make money.


You know that is the perfect exsample of people not knowing. After 9/11 people kept saying “We need federalized security in airports” question should have asked if the security had done anything wrong letting them on with Box cutters. Under the law at that time, no they didn’t knives were ok. So the real problem was not security but yet the People still wanted to federalize them, why?



I can’t agree more. Just bad timing is all. Most people out there will ask for more control. Every one I know is calling for more. My wife and I are starting to thing we are two lowly sane people in a land of the insane.

I'm feeling a bit conspiritorical today...anyone ever notice that just when Bush needs public opinion to boost his way, something tragic happens?

The dog's a waggin'...

What are you two accusing him of doing? And were is the proof of it?

Patrick Moore Founder and former President of Greenpeace has even started to question them. Greenpeace is less about protecting of the earth and the people on it and more about anti-capitalism. Greenpeace has for many years been investigated for tariost acts (Spiking trees of one) Not to say they are but to have a file on a group that has had lose ties to people who do things that are wrong and kill people is a good thing. I would also think they have a file on a few of the Anti-Abortion people because they hold ties to Abortion clinic bombers. Getting files and maintaining them is not a problem, as long as a judge gives them that ok. That is the problem with this act, they can just bypass the Check and Balances of our government. Our founding fathers must be rolling over in there graves.

Oh and no most people do not care about history. Sad

We're not accusing him of anything. We're just making insinuative remarks, and giggling incessantly.

Patrick Moore sold out to become a lobbyist for the timber industry, one of many groups spreading lies and misinformation about Greenpeace.

I used to be a Greenpeace contributer, but I quit. You know why? Because Greenpeace is full of "fluffy bunny" environmentalists. They're doing fund raising and lobbying and education, and that's fine, there's a place for that, but without direct action, rich corporations are going to keep on turning this planet into their own private parking lot/tree farm/whale fishery. Painting Greenpeace as villains of any note is just silly. They no longer have the balls to be villainous.

It's all about protecting the earth: that "anti-capitalist" BULLSHIT is the rhetoric of the losers in this battle - corporations who have been thwarted in their ambitions to pave the planet by direct citizen action. Labeling environmental activists as "terrorists" comes from the same public relations machinery, and it's BULLSHIT too. Point me towards a single case of an enviromentalist killing anybody in an environmental action. Just one case. Good luck. Compare and contrast with the number of environmentalists murdered by opponents for their beliefs, and you might have a more accurate assessment of who the real "terrorists" are.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Today, environmentalists. Tomorrow, pagans. Day after that, liberatarians, Democrats, Jews, gays, and anybody else the regime decides is unacceptable. Why squabble about who goes into the showers first?

Careful, Arcadia....You do too much of that, and you may hyperbole-ventilate. Here, breathe deeply into this windbag.

Hey, they're handing out presents. You want a yellow star or a pink triangle?

Governments have a long history of marginalizing and demonizing those that they later plan to eliminate. Identification and investigation are all part of the program.

Could it happen in America? Don't be silly. It already has. Repeatedly.

From my perspective it seems that the Patriot Act is doing nothing but furthering the agenda of the terrorists.

I agree. Get the gov't to make knee-jerk policy, and cause a huge rift in society.

YAY! I love presents!!! Kin I have a yellow triangle wiff pink sparkly stars?

America has yet to go the way of the "Final Solution". It's statements like "Guantanamo Bay is the Russian Gulag of our times" that keep the right so galvanized. I really don't think we should be traivializing horrors like the Holocaust by making these kind of comparisons.

I don't think it's trivializing to be mindful of the warning signs. If anything, it honors the dead.

Well, it's one thing to point out where something might lead. It's another to leap to that conclusion and start equating the Patriot Act with "the showers". Just my opinion, of course.

Ben Franklin didn't have to live in a world like ours where, out of the blue, thousands of people can be killed in minutes because of a few assholes. We can't say for sure whether or not he'd still feel the same way about his famous "liberty nor safety" quote. Besides, doesn't the concept of "liberty" only apply with respect to government control? And even then, only when your freedom does not hurt others?

I can't think of anything in the Patriot Act that lets government "take away liberties". I admit I may just not be thinking creatively enough. The PA sortof takes away privacy in some ways, if you're up to no good, but liberty?

Oh, and, there's a big difference between our DEMOCRACY (Republic if you want to be anal about it?) and Nazi Germany/Soviet Russia/etc. etc.

Damn big difference...

You distinguish between the loss of privacy and the loss of liberty? And in some circumstances (being "up to no good" you support the erosion and/or elimination of one's privacy? Where is the line drawn? Do we only sacrifice privacy to fight terrorism? Or is it appropriate to sacrifice it in other circumstances? At what point do you draw the line?

Ultimately, the only way to truly protect the State from terrorism is to resort to totalitarianism. Though Benjamin Franklin may have lived in a time where the technological efficiency of killing was considerably less, his perspective is no less valuable today. Mr Franklin understood that a government which places the security of its citizens before the freedom of its citizens must inevitably decline into autocracy.

Well I think there's a bit of a difference between privacy and liberty. BF may have grouped them into the same category too, but I don't think it's technically what he said. I just think that saying liberty and privacy are the same thing is twisting the meaning of the word. I admit I could be wrong. I like to brainstorm on forums alot. I don't know for sure how he'd feel about it in the present day, or even if he'd consider the Patriot Act to be going against the spirit of his quote.

By no means do I want Big Brother government in our private lives, BUT I do want law enforcement to have the tools they need to do their jobs. The Patriot Act tries to provide more of those tools.

It's much better to talk specifics when we talk about the Patriot Act anyway... there's alot in it, and saying "it's all bad" is just as bad a statement as saying "it should all be made permanent".

there is nothing kneejerk about the patriot act....

http://www.newamericancentury.org/