Brainstorming Thread: How to Make SL Less Chaotic

I'm not saying I want to turn SL into a world of conformist pod people who adhire to strict community standards, but, as I and many more prominant than me have observed... our metaverse is a jumbled mess. Everything's scattered all over the place with little relation to what's next to it. For the most part, we don't even have paths or roads.

So I'm asking everyone- how could we make the world more cohesive and orderly? By ordely I don't mean repetive, stiffling or unimaginitive. I'm thinking more in terms of property A clashing with property B, or at the very least, some system where you could, say, follow a trail and see things on the trail.

I'm not too crazy about community standards, and am wondering if there are better ideas?

If you have any ideas crazy or not, post them here.

Interesting question.

We see homogeneity in RL development because RL builders have similar interests and constraints, usually imposed by the geographic location. We also have zoning laws and building regulations. And due to land values, builders usually have similar amounts of resources for building. SL has none of those homogenizing factors - all we have is PG vs M land. Unless LL institutes some other constraints, I doubt we will see any spontaneous reduction of chaos.

The only effective way to reduce chaos is to impose order. Retrictions leak a bit chaos as well, especially when people are involved. It's an ever evolving balancing act.

The only entities that can impose order in Second Life are Lindens and land owners.

"Spontaneous reduction of chaos" ha ha i like that phrase. The spontaneous suspension of several dozen accounts in a day might get our attention and make us behave for a while. But I doubt it would reduce the chaos of odd builds and senseless lag that we live in. Those things are self imposed, our own fault.

I personally prefer chaos.

I do NOT support this idea.

SL has enough matching areas already.

I'd rather see 'messy' prims than neat tidy areas.

Move to a 'planned' community if that is what you like, don't try and make the rest of us conform.

Although I'd prefer a more organized grid, I'm not for forcing others to blend in or penalizing those that don't fit in. I tried to explain this in the original post but I didn't make myself clear. I'm thinking more in terms of ways to encourage a more harmonic grid, as oppossed to the negative reinforcement of rules and regulations.

By harmonic, I'm not thinking in terms of tract houses or everything being from the same era, made of the same materials and whatnot. I'm thinking more in terms of subtle ways the area could harmonize.

For example, I've noticed in the northern moth/boardwalk sims that people have the opportunity to use prefab Linden made builds that match the existing builds on the pier. If someone wants to put something else on his land, he's free to do so, but the fact that people have chosen to use the boardwalk builds gives those areas more of a theme.

Olympia,

I believe the Lindens are in the position to do this. They do it best by building the world itself and putting in its roads and bridges and walkways. Those features are what already harmonize the world.

It's best, too, when they leave a sketch. The put the atoll buidings out there as a sketch. You don't HAVE to use them but you can. Unfortunately, the sketches have awful camera angles inside them and are absolutely uninhabitable. I haven't been able to rent out a single one of these things -- has anybody? I defatted some of them -- they're awfully prim-heavy with huge numbers of boards! -- and lifted the roofs slightly and made a few public buildings with them that work OK. But I notice that others making buildings that "fit" the "sketch" out in the Moth area are using their own prims and textures *like* Linden textures but not those actually atoll buildings. Pity! I'm for Lindens making more prefabs and making GOOD prefabs that are looking good and low in prims where possible.

The Lindens didn't say "you can't have ugly builds here that block the water views and are out of sync with our Moth Temple we love for its beauty and uniqueness*. Instead, they put out a sketch -- boardwalks. Most people followed the sketch just because they wanted to look good, too. So the Lindens need to make more sketches and not just in the new continent.

This is my point about Lindens possibly considering this "do-it-yourself" zoning. If the Lindens put a sim on the auction, with a built-in sign that says "voluntary residential" and put a prefab store next to the sign with some nice prefabs in it, you'd solve the problem of sim ugliness at least in some places because people would accept the sketch and the prefabs. It could get cookie-cutterish, but some like that!

There's another way to tackle this. Disseminate best practices. Make it part of Sl lore that you never build right at the property line. You do that, you are dog meat. You are not invited to the best parties. You are negrated. You are loathed.

This morning I dealt with two hugely intractable neighbours, one on a mere 1024 with a giant laggy club everyone on 3 sims with the damn thing in their viewline find loathsome on a number of grounds. Another has a huge glowing sign with a picture that can be seen for 3 sims and is the only thing of its kind and drives people wacky because it is in their view line. In both of these cases, they are in the distinct minority. They look out on 3 sims worth of view -- and see great views that people have taken care to keep nice and free of junk. They look out and enjoy the handiwork of dozens of other people paying hundreds of dollars of land and tier, but they themselves, on their little pieces paying their little tier amount, don't want to grapple with the significance of the fact that *they* are what these people paying hundreds have to look at.

This is the principle conundrum of SL for me -- that lack of harmony stems right from the blessification of that "I get to do what I want on my land".

If LL were to adopt that "you can't build as high as you are far from the property line" idea even as a goal, let alone a TOS violation, it would make the grid look like the private islands.

But if I'm buying some land, I want to build out to the property line -- why can't I? That's the attitude.

Another rule might be "no lighted object signs X feet above the ground except within 512 meters of a telehub". But...well, what is someone wants a big Tringo game in their barn in the middle of nowhere.

Once you start imposing regulations to make harmony -- by which you mean beauty -- it becomes onerous to people and hard to police.

That's why I've always advocated not regulations, but voluntary codes of conduct if you will and best practices, followed up by use of the negrate. If someone mounts a tall, laggy, light-spinning, ugly club on a 1024 in the middle of a sim where everyone else there owns much larger tracts, they could say "God bless the rights of the 1024" or they could ask him to move, buy him out at a reasonable price, and negrate him if the won't go.

That's not going to happen though. Most of the SL forum posters are four-square behind the right of a 1024 to get as ugly and nasty and obstinate and stupid as he can get. It's the community's support for this stubbornness that creates this problem.

End that field day, and you'll begin to get the harmony you seek.

Then go to a themed sim.

I'm not for conforming to your idea of what looks nice in a sim.

Prefab homes are just so original.

Why not make everyone get the same clothes same attachments same vehicles same buildings same events. Why we'd be THERE!

A lot of these things make me glad I can't see very far.

coco

Take away freedom. That will make SL much less chaotic.

There are over 400 non zoned sims and like 3 zoned ones. So don't sweat it.

Recently, Linden zoned land has been selling for huge amounts, which means there are definetely people who want this. You are no longer required to use a Linden prefab in these places which allows for some creativity. I've seen some pretty cool, different builds popping up around me where I live.

Sadly, I doubt the Lindens will ever make more of these places, as they seem to be leaning towards a more hands off approach.

I say let MADNESS rule!! Buhahahahha

There may be a business-case for making builds more harmonius. If you could find a compelling (i.e. profitable) reason for people to collaborate on complimentary builds, then I think it might encourage movement in this direction. If change doesn't come about voluntarily, it won't come about at all.

The problem with a themed sim is that that the theme is enforced through rules and regulations. I'm thinking more in terms of a place which provided incentives for people to use similar styles and materials without insisting they do so.



Here's how I see it. If someone in the moth sims wants to set up shop on the boardwalk and doesn't have big plans for how the shop looks, a prefab that reflects other local builds is more harmonic than a box. If the shopkeeper wishes to customize his shop by making it a giant fish with the mouth as the enterence, that's fine by me too. The prefabs provide repition and rhythm, and the unique builds provide variety.


It was never my intention to insist or force everyone to build (or look, or behave) exactly alike. I'm thinking more in terms of ways to encourage some level of harmony without demanding it, and without ostricizing anyone who whats to do their own thing.



I think the Linden plan with the moth sims is clever. If they'd tried to maintain the theme by prohibiting or penalizing builds, residents would feel stifled and perhaps alienated from each other if code violations were reportable offenses.
By offering incentives to follow a theme (prefab materials, Linden created landmarks etc..) the sim harmony is encouraged without force.

So true... (;_;)

I wonder if the new SL with the really long views will change people's perspectives?

Yes.

Reminds me of something I read that stated anything with a chaotic nature can't be controlled by force, and I think this applies here too.



Will people put up walls and trees? Or will they enjoy the view?

So, you're not proposing themed sims but a loose set of rules by which people build in a sim?
Isn't that what we have now with the TOS?
Any stricter and it becomes a themed area - I don't just mean 'western,' 'asian,' 'futuristic,' etc. By saying everyone must have a home/store/build within a range of factors, it is a themed sim.

Most creativity is lost. Yes there will be some who excel even with restrictions, but for most of us who can't build to your(general you) expectations it is a damper on any ideas we may have.

Buy your own sim, impose your own rules.

What view?
It's an artificial world in virtual space.
If I want to see mountains, trees, hills, sky, highrises, shopping malls, I go outside.

When I want to see original creative wacky things I go to SL. I have no expectation of a view that conforms to the outside world. Why limit ourselves?

I think that Roads should be added that connect SIM to SIM before the new SIM's are released for land purchase. This would establish some continuity and allow SL Vehicle enthusiast to tour the sims in a completely different way. I would extend this to apply to the area above the roads too, so that people can either drive around or fly unobstructed.

I'm sure that someone has already suggested that though. I'm not sure why the Lindens haven't done it, perhaps there is a technical issue?

As far as zoning, I'd hate to see that applied to anyone but willing participants (one of which, I would *not* be, because I like some chaos and whimsy). Though with some better group tools, the Lindens could make group options more robust and thereby make similar groups assembling in one area easier which would amount to something like zoning but remain voluntary.

It's a tough call, because one of the wonderful things that SL offers is the freedom to create one's own reality. With 10,000 + people, one persons reality is bound to conflict with anothers. Some standard interconnectivity outside of just a telehub wouldn't hurt though.

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No rules or restrictions.
My point is encouraging some harmonizing by making it easy or rewarding for residents to do so. I'm not talking about punishing, penalizing, or even discouriging people to be unique.

I'm not thinking in terms of rules, zones or restrictions.
My point is encouraging some harmonizing by making it easy or rewarding for residents to do so.
Improving group tools, as Rose suggested, may be one way to do this.

(I'm not talking about punishing, penalizing, or even discouriging people to be unique. )

p.s. to moderators- this seems to have been posted twice. Mind removing one of them? Thanks

Well i suppose in some ways I am going to have to clock in as an advocate of "fuck you its my land I do what I want hedonsim" when it comes to builds. I mean this sincerely without rancor. As it happens I have a build that goes damn close to the property lines around my build. Anyone who has seen my parthenon knows it is big. Roughtly 70 x 30 meters.
When I bought my land in nuttal, I found an isolated hill top on which to build, on two sides was linden land. Subsequent to my monter being put up, the land near me has gone from linden land, to ahsne chung land, and some one has put a house up on it. In addition some other s have build clubs, tringo and malls in other areas. Now frankly I have not gotten any complaints about the parthenon, but I think it fair to say that if anyone told me it was too big and I should take it down as it blocks thier view, I would be less that willing to comply. I was there first. So think that one problem we face in dicussing ugly builds and zoning is that some times people move into an area with a big build on it. they should not be able to force a pre-existing build off its own land.

I think the Lindens experimented with this general idea with the four "city" sims. From what I could tell, it doesn't seem to have caught on because they really haven't done anything quite like that since.

I think Order seems better than Chaos when it's Your Order and My Chaos.

why this need for harmonizing? or theming?

who would determine what was harmonizing?

I think SL is more beautiful being chaotic than 'harmonzied' and sanitized.