Evolution or Creation?

Not really, this is more due to better nutrition and less strain during our development period (read: from egg to full-grown adult within one individual). Without the physiological strain and plus the nutrition improvement, humans can grow to the fullest potential possible at the time without actually getting into evolution.

(Kids, this is why you should drink milk and take multivitamins. Does a body good. )

But I'm content to say that we were created to evolve, like Shadow.

I had a totaly wierd dream last night:

Scientists globaly published undeniable proof that we all live inside a highly complex computer simulation, and sysadmins from the future were actually contacted via a few dozen sets of scrabble tiles (very Douglas Adams!).
There ensued worldwide panic, and almost all mainstream religions broke down, as did the economy and society at large. Nobody bothered looting or anything though. Nobody went to work, and most people just sat around thinking "what's the point?".
Then, everything blue-screened, with the message "EXPERIMENT OVER" and I woke up!

Boy, these threads can really play on ones mind cant they?! lol.

ack and here I am without my Towel and Babblefish!!!!

Gee, then I guess the answer to Darwin's original thread question is "Yes".

I'm with Alan Guth on this one, as he says "Emotionally, the anthropic principle kind of rubs me the wrong way...The anthropic principle is something that people do if they can't think of anything better to do."

This is indeed a disturbing universe. And what do we know of it? Nothing. We truly "know" nothing. All we have is our individual truths. What we observe through our mortal and biased senses. What ever we hold to be true, is just our current conceptions of the universe. These change all the time. As our ability to observe increasing we see more, finer details, and the larger picture. Once upon a time we only saw the universe though our senses, and observed with our mind. Now we have better instruments to see, and faster machines to compute.
Our knowledge of the universe increases, yet is also constantly changing. What we hold to be true, is proven false, or false under some circumstances. So from this is all science a fallacy. No, as we progress, we learn more. Science is a step not an end in itself as some believe. I consider that religion was originally a way of observing the universe. They created there theories and held them true. As better theories came along they were replaced, or at least until politics got involved. But that is another topic.
So as religion once had a reason and that was surpassed, science also will pass into the annals of history as we start to observe differently. Not better, not worse, not truer, just differently. We will learn. To what end I ask, but there is no end. The only end that life ever has that we have discovered is death. Perhaps we will learn differently, but unlike computer games, life has no end. You can't win or lose, you just exist. Life Exists.
So science goes forward and it's knowledge of the universe increases, we see a finer detail. we delve into the cells of life, and see molecules. In the molecules, atoms. In atoms, quarks and other subatomic particles. To infinity. Yet often we forget to look outward as well as in. Science can get so obsessed with detail that it can forgot to see the universe as a whole.
Perhaps, we need to go back as well as forward. We have forgotten, and science refuses to acknowledge what has been learnt before. And whilst this is not "true" for science, science is just current beliefs and observation. It is not true. So we have to acknowledge the possibility of all things existing. We have to acknowledge that whilst "I don't believe in a God" there may be one. While "I don't believe the universe is a sentient creature" It might be. And whilst I believe "that gravity will exist and 12 noon tomorrow" it might not. So whilst we still have to live our lives assuming that what we are told is more-or-less true, we also have to acknowledge that there is more out there than can ever be imagined.
So we can never truly "know" the universe, because we are contained within. But is there a universe to know. Contained within all I have said is the possibility that along with everything, nothing exists. Perhaps there is no truth past what we can see. Perhaps the universe only exists though our eyes, our biased, mortal senses. The possibilities of the world are beyond infinite. You and I can't even begin to comprehend it's massiveness, or it's simplicity. That's the beauty of it, the paradox, either, both or neither can exist. We don't and can't know. All we know is what we see, and we can't truly believe that. Yet still we keep learning, which is as it should be...

Hmm, if science is correct, and there is a Multiverse, i. e. an infinite number of infinite universes, then it stands to reason that somewhere at any given time EVERYTHING is true. Then there IS a god..somewhere. Indeed there is the possibilty of an infinite number of gods. In fact in some universe out there I am a god, or rather a counterpart of me is a god. So I know who I am worshipping from now on.

as you are all twisted figments of my fevered imagination, none of it really matters. when i wake from my dreamy slumber it will all fade. hopefully quickly!

both

Reminds me of a quote by the Dalai Lama:

When asked about the nature of reality, he replied:
"Reality is perception"

Religion is the only thing keeping most people from blowing their heads off in hopes the next incarnation will be better.

The are more things in heaven and Earth,
then are dreamt of in your philosophy Horatio.
- Hamlet

I believe that no one has any idea whatsoever how we got here and all the theories are merely hand waving.

Humbly,
Antagonistic Protagonist

I know how I got here.

One day I was working in my garden and a friend stopped by. He said it was time we finally found out the solution to all the disappearing spirits, and he proposed to go to Earth to research. Earth is a little backwater world, nobody much wants anything to do with it, because it has a reputation as the dumping ground for all the worst, most incorrigible miscreants in the universe. It's the equivalent of an oubliette, or a spiritual black hole.

I must have been really bored, or my sense of duty was running on overdrive that day, because I chose to follow him here, knowing that all who had gone before attempting some sort of spiritual salvage had never returned.

And so I ended up stuck here, just like everyone else.

Edit: Looong story short. But what's a few millenia here or there?

Of course, that really has nothing to do with whether life here was created or evolved. (It was a little of each.)

Please, PLEASE...let this be the ONLY incarnation! I don't wanna come back. AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!

I exist. At some point, I won't.

Susan Cooper wrote a book called Seaward. It draws heavily on Celtic mythology. It's written for younger readers, if you've read the _Dark is Rising_ series, but it's still definitely worth a read. But the point is, Seaward mentions what happened to some of the very old creatures at the end of their lives. They were tired, and wanted no part of rebirth/eternal life/afterlife. So they went to sleep in the space between stars.

I'm rephrasing mercilessly -- Cooper's phrasing was much better than mine -- but that's what I'd like to have happen.

...quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over. (2 pt reference)

Oblivion sounds nice to me.

I will be reincarnated as a six ft Black woman with a terrific
golf swing.

++++++++++++++++

Pelican Cove @ Shipley 190,107

I was built in a factory...


*saved from the bottom of the page*

Indeed, I just came to the conclusion that I believe in both Evolution and Creation.
Evolution took million of years to come up with anatomically-modern man, who in turn took only a relatively short time in the Creation of his God.
*ducks*

Hell Yeah, Hamlet is the best... Mel Gibson version rules....

JV

Well now that you put it that way Eggy, I guess I'd have to agree that it's both! *hides behind Eggy*

I cant believe we didnt start a flamewar here. You people suck

haha Eggy. This community absolutely rocks. I'm not sure I can think of another forum anywhere where this thread could have gone on for five pages without a single flame. Truly amazing.

Just to get this back on track- I have something to add.

First off, I am an atheist.

Now, this idea of "Intelligent Design" or "created to evolve"... Hmm.

Now, this god is omnipotent/allpowerful/allknowing, correct? Well, then why would he BOTHER? He would know exactly how EVERYTHING would turn out, and there would be nothing gained, because he/she/it would be able to just make that happen anyways.

Now, it can be argued that he/she/it has different motivations than anything we know- but then how would he/she/it understand humans AT ALL if he/she/it didnt have the same GENERAL goals whatsoever.

Think on that.