Getting a little tired

Hey feel free to not read this, feel free to let it die, feel free to respond. I don’t much care right now I just need to say something.

Since I started SL nearly a year ago I have pretty much kept to myself. I spend my days greeting noobs, socializing and my personal favorite building. I have a hell of a lot of fun most of the time.

That was then, this is now.

I wrote in these forums about not wanting any type of commercialism in Second Life. I wrote that I didn’t want to be sold any thing from RL in SL. I had 3 main points to make;
1) I play in Second Life to escape real life.
2) I felt it was an intrusion to bring real life marketing into Second Life.
3) Why should I pay a subscription if ppl are going to try to sell me real life goods?

Somewhere along the lines….
Some people thought it good to deem me; crazy, stupid, and somehow lacking in my personal beliefs, incorrect personal judgments and chose snide insinuations instead of a constructive arguments against my personal opinions. This continues to be a trend that some feel is somehow “acceptable” I find that behavior to be more childlike than constructive, and unacceptable. Any further attempts like the afore mentioned and I will not hesitate to hit the “report this post” button.

I may not be as "intelligent" as some would claim to be in SL. Then again I hold a good job, and have traveled extensively. I find assumptions about me incorrect, especially when in world I have had nothing but fun with all of these ppl, before I decided to post my personal thoughts on the subject of selling real merchandise in second life.

I feel saddened at this point and somewhat ashamed of some members in SL. With their intentional verbal cruelty. Coupled with the addition of deliberately vague hidden agendas.

The saddest thing I know is that some ppl will continue to pick apart my reasoning for the sole purpose of trying to make me feel bad. More so telling me to quit Second Life if I don’t like it; honestly pisses me off. One player does not have a RIGHT to tell another player to quit. I pay my monthly and yearly fees to Linden Labs. Not to some player. Some ppl need to get over their self-imposed importance; it has no bearing on my agreement with Linden Labs.

It does however make me wonder if others also keep quiet because of how they have seen how I was treated.

Two things will happen;
1) People think one voice won't matter; they will be treated with much hostility and venom.
2) They will see that they will be heard and have the courage to speak their real feelings.

Honestly I have contemplated on more than one occasion recently, just to walk away and let what ever happens to SL happen. When ppl say things to the affect that no one should respond to any of my posts because somehow they "should know better by now". Those types of remarks are at best childish and uncalled for in such an intelligent, creative group of ppl. Why should anyone put up with that type of insult/insinuation? No, days like that are not worth the fight.

What is my personal vision for SL?
I would like nothing more than to build, learn from others, and teach those who know less than me. I would like nothing more than to see ppl in SL create wonderful builds and share them with all of SL. I would like to see the limits of what can be done in SL. Everything from clothing to scripting evolves into the most creative and inviting 3d space there ever will be. One man had a dream in the basement of his parents home. I share that dream.

So why am I telling the reader all of this?

I hope ppl see my sincerity, my distain for current posts, and clearly see what I really think. I have no hidden agenda.

As for those who wish to bring RL products into SL.

Why?

I don't understand the reasoning. SL is not a huge environment where thousands of ppl are going to see their products. To be completely honest I think they are a bit naive in thinking that they will get rich off the members of SL.

Would their product placement be better off in something like Adobe Atmosphere? Which is where they create their real life, 3d virtual walk threw shop/store, mall. That is the purpose of that program. No one is saying "hey lets change adobe atmosphere into a SL environment where no one can sell his or her products".

Is there really a market for my name on someone’s mouse pad in SL? I don't really think there is. I think those who are singing its praise also have their own future marketing agendas. "If enough of us say its good then everyone will think its good." I think these ppl are under estimating the intelligence of the SL community.

So they need a jumping off point for their products. Great for them but honestly wouldn't Ebay be better than SL. Automatic payment system is already in place.

My last point is if their work is really that good. I or any other player would be contacting them directly to create a real life product we could purchase with rl dollars. I don’t feel I should be subjected to in world advertising of any kind.

If I start seeing real life advertising in world, to buy real life products. Then I will have to seriously reconsider paying any subscription costs to Linden Labs. I am only Linden Labs customer, not every player in SL's customer.

This is my stance. If you don’t understand it, re read it. If you still don’t understand it, I cannot make it any clearer.

I agree... the last thing I want to see is RL items being sold in SL. I'd prefer to think of it as a completely different world TYVM

As to the forums, don't worry about it - this happens everywhere and to anyone (especially if they're particularly active posters). I've never in my life seen a gaming forum where there isn't rampant bickering over features, unwarranted personal attacks or a general feeling that the game in question has massive issues and arguments that it doesn't actually have in-game.

It's especially similar with Everquest - go to one of their fan forums and all you'll see is arguments, personal attacks and the impression that the game is broken and full of idiots. Yet in reality, it's not as broken as it sounds and only half-full of idiots

Perhaps the problem is that people love to complain and argue. It's easy to complain about a feature or other people's traits, but a lot more rare for someone to post about all the good features of a game or person. I'm not sure why this is though... but you need a very thick skin and a good supply of salt to pinch for any gaming forum.

Whether I agree with you on various issues or not Catherine, I always hate to see people hurting and sad, and I hate to see people be insulting and personally attacking others.

*BIG HUGS to hope you feel better Catherine*

Catherine,

Your stance is very easy to understand. However, many have an opposite view: they are interested in RL goods that are related to the good times that they experience in SL. Whether they are t-shirts or mouse pads, these items do have a market among Second Lifers. I know someone with an official Second Life shirt and she loves it to death; if they were sold by Linden Lab, I would order one. I may very well order a shirt from the prospective effort started by other members, even without a LL or SL logo -- it's related to Second Life, and thus very special. Heck, I've considered designing one myself.

There is nothing inherently wrong about members pursuing this opportunity, because this (well, inworld) is the natural forum for advertising [unofficial] related goods. Having real life items doesn't lessen the Second Life world or experience, it enhances. Perhaps in your travels you've bought something that you've kept to this day. Whenever you see that item, you are reminded of a (hopefully) happy time. That's the motive behind buying SL-related merchandise, inworld or in RL.

It is unfortunate that you have laid a path of angry responses and negative ratings following people with whom you do not agree. I hope that at some point you will come to terms with these progressive ideas and, if not grow to like them, at least grow to understand.

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Not sure I should even respond to this but as far as neg. ratings go I recieved 5 yesterday from ppl I not only have never heard of but have never met. All were ranging from 1 day old to 2 months old.

Why do you feel its ok to tell me to get used to this idea? I don't tell you that its my way, or no way and to get used to it.

I will not get used to and grow to like these ideas. If they become too bothersome I will deal with them on an individual basis. If SL becomes nothing but a sales pitch for real life merchandise, Linden Lab will loose me as a customer.

Cat

I have been reading these posts for the past few days, and have tried my hardest to just steer clear, but I really feel like I need to respond.

It seems to me that alot of people fear this huge 'corporate monster' that IMHO does not exist.

I respect the fact that you don't want to purchase RL items in your Secondlife, and have no problem with that. The thing I can't understand though, is why you can't just avoid those that do?

Me personally, I don't want porn in my Secondlife, so I stay away. Just because *I* don't want it, does not mean Billie Joe Bob wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't.

I don't expect you to embrace these changes. Hell, I really don't like them much myself. But some will.

I dunno if this has been said, but... I still pay for magazines and they're full of advertisements. I still pay for basic cable, which is ridiculously full of advertisements, too.

<shrug>

Thanks Pete I can understand that. Naw I don't think its all around me yet either. I just feel once the gates are open it's going to get real ugly.

I know some ppl like the idea of rl merchandise in SL. I realy dont have a problem with those that feel that way. I have a problem with their tactics tho.

Catherine

Powerful statement...and well said.

There has always been ppl to support free exchange of knowledge...but the opposed to that are the very ppl that promo the advertisement....they are the land horders, the money seekers and the ones that are corrupting what was once my nirvana....they dont like free exchange of knowledge because they feel its empowering for them to know and others not to know,but here we are Cat. RL money already here how can it not continue on that path....maybe a thought to a different segment to SL.....denoted by a Morals, possitive thinkers and a screening process of someone who wants in the nirvana....(yes im krazy)....just a thought...but it could happen but then who would the menions prey on....??hehe....

I hear ya loud and clear....but then some spice might be lost...maybe all for the better....dont know anymore what the answer is and i have stopped trying to stop it and just let what is....be. Maybe the ppl that feel the same as you and me can find their way to us...maybe we should be a group with strong intentions....proactive in a cause....

and how plz dont say your going anywhere....you are one of the ppl that takes lemons and turns it lemonaide!!

lets celebrate spring, a new beginning, when life is breathed back into nature and ol man winter is kicked to the curb for abit....

hugs

RL merchandise being sold in SL is nearly guaranteed now, with the introduction of encryption standards. With those in the game, the LLs are encouraging it.

I say: Fine by me.

Didn't the Lindens delete the last thread on this topic?

Thank you Jolene eloquent as always my sincere appreciation for your words today. Perhaps you are right about forming a group of like-minded ppl. Ah yes spring has sprung time to plant the bunnies and make the chocolate tulips: D

Hugz
Cat

Catherine,

I don't share your fears, but I certainly understand them, and understand too why you are so active in putting your point of view. I have said before that I think SL is lucky to have people like you who are driven by your passion for our virtual world.

I agree with you about some of the annoying things people say in the forums. The two that annoy me the most are: It's only a game, and the one you mentioned, If you don't like it then leave. The latter is, I think, the final refuge of those who have run out of arguments to support their position. I wonder whether they say the same thing to reformers in rl?

Anyway, I'm sorry you have been treated badly, but I hope you don't allow this to affect your sl life. Good luck in all your virtual endeavours!

I am not telling you to get used to advertising for FL goods in SL. I am not claiming that it is my way or no way. However, judging by your posts, you have noticed that FL and SL economies are beginning to overlap. As others have noted, unless there is an outright ban by Linden Lab, the motivation driving this, er, interworld commerce is strong, for both merchants (for obvious reasons) and customers (see my prior post in this thread).

I wish you the best in "dealing" with the ideas. Second Life will not become pure advertising, ever; that's a silly suggestion, unless one counts SL as advertising for itself. All arguments about advertising aside, I continue to hope that you grow to understand the motivation for having a RL item that reminds the owner of good times online. If nothing else, I believe that reaching that understanding would lessen your discomfort during your time in Second Life.

Hugz Selador that's what I truely love about you, we can disagree and still be friends. I admire your opinions. I do believe you are right about the annoying things ppl say and why. It made me feel better, thank you for that.

The moment this affects my SL experience I will take some time off and collect my thoughts. I try to make all the time in SL fun or productive LOL but you know that!

Cat

Snark I understand I have a SL t-shirt I wear, and a poster with my SL name on it hanging in my home office Those were from LL's I have yet to see anything in world including my own work that I would put on a t shirt.

BUT if I did see something I wanted on a tshirt/mouse pad etc. I could easily do a screen capture, save to disk, insert my iron on transfer into my printer, open the graphic in adobe, and print
it, iron it on a 5 dollar hanes/fotl t shirt and boom its mine
I am not suggesting ppl do this, I am saying there is no real need for a middle man in SL if I want a SL momento as you suggest.

I understand you point, realy I do. Good luck in all that you do in SL

Cat

Catherine,
I'm only going to respond once to this thread, and I feel so inclined because on many of your issues stated I do agree. But I think here there must be a level of fairness. Yes, I have seen you and your stances attacked on this board here, many threads reduced to mud slinging events, and that is hurtful, but in many of them you have been an eager participant. At once your comments seem honorable and from a genuine stance on the issue, but then you turn around and conflict your previous statements with the unexpected "I now love Fizik" thread, which I think while nice to see, sort of blew many away and were less invested in your political statements. At times you seem to try to steer a topic in your favored direction, and when met with resistance, you become angry, disorderly and snide with your remarks. I think that for many people who once supported *you* on the issues at hand eventually found themselves at a loss in confusion when you came onto the boards and announced you were now Happy with the everything and they should be too. While an atmosphere of contention is never good, and shouldn't be fostered under any circumstances, I'm sure to your adversaries it seemed you found a voice, lost it, got tired of it, changed your mind, made your "peace" on the issue, and now you're back again with the very same issue... months later.

I don't think it's right for anyone to mistreat you, to call you names, or challenge your character, none of us know you in real life and I bet you're a wonderful person, but in Second Life, and I'm only being honest, sometimes here on these boards you can appear antagonistic, cold, angry and stubborn. What happens here often follows you in-world. People sat back and wether they participated or not, they saw you spearhead your movement against fizik, and the island. They saw you claim he took it from school children, then say you were wrong, it wasn't school children it was a cult. Then read your article with Hamlet which sort of fostered this idea you were a bit of an eccentric, then come back and complain about the commercialism in second life, then say you have "Made peace" with the isse as you and the archrival have made friends, and suddenly, here you are back again with this very same issue.

I really don't want to develop an unfair opinion of you Catherine, and the last thing I want to do is pass easy judgement. That you are so passionate about your views is inspiring, that you are so unsteady in them is confusing.

I truly don't mean to be offensive, just try to help you understand why some may have drawn the conclusions they have, and how the past events might have resulted into your unfair treatment in-world.

I'm really sorry that is happened that way.

Phaylen

This being said, what I will object to is if/when, and it's not all too unforseeable, LL want a cut of the action for commerce going on in their universe, and I still have to pay a subscription fee. This will not be acceptable... so, until commerce frees you from your subscription fees, I think there's going to be a lot of waters being tested.

How do I respond to a singlur post full of many misconceptions.

First off Fizik, yes I made peace with Fizik but the thread was not called "I love Fizik" I made peace with Fizik and if you read the annoucement we both signed it says he will not be using SL as a marketing tool. We found common ground. Its a good thing. So my battle with him against commercialism is SL was done. There is nothing to fight with Fizik about. Please re read that thread.

As for Hamlet even I said that I thought his article was way off base, about me personaly and about taking my words out of context. Yup made me look like a loon and I said so.

As for the school teacher, there never was one, I was used to get back at Fizik, because Fizik won the bid. I also publicaly apologized in these forums for being dupped and every part of it that involved Fizik.

It is the same "marketing in SL" issue of course I am back to talking about it and questioning it. If the issue was a dead one, no one would be hearing from me. Apparently its not a dead issue but I didnt bring it up again Shadow Weaver and his group did. So I am consistant in my beliefs. I don't see that as ping ponging the issue at all.

The last thing I have been is an eager participant in mud slinging. Yes I have been ticked off at times only after having had put up with page after page of personal insults. I first tried to defend myself. Re read the threads you question with that thought in mind.

"sometimes here on these boards you can appear antagonistic, cold, angry and stubborn."

Perhaps that is true on some level, but it was not willfull nor intentional by any means.

If someone implies my moral, ethical, or intelligent is sub standard yes that is going to make me cold and stubborn. How would that make me different than anyone else in the same situation?

For those of you who feel I have been all over the place, I disagree. I have been against marketing in SL since it was first brought up. Anyone who decides to use marketing in SL I will disagree with, that is consistancy in my passion to preserve the SL I know.

Catherine

Thanks Catnip I agree.

Cat

Catherine,

I want to respond to two parts of your post. First, I'd like to respond to your concern over the mud-slining, name-calling, and general unpleasantries that have happened.

We all are entitled to our opinions. I dislike when people degrade a good debate by making it an attack on someone with an opposing view. In my opinion, that is the 'cheap' way out.

I also wanted to get people to think about RL goods in SL from another vantage point.

I should preface this with: I see no issue in having RL commercialism in SL.

I, in my opinion, think that RL merchandising could actually benefit SL. Big corporations (i.e. Gap, Levi's, Nike, etc.) would be paying a premium for the chance to sell goods in SL. This would allow expansion, and possibly even lower pricing, for the 'players'.

The key is in the implementation, which would need to be managed carefully by LL. With good management, I think that RL goods in SL could, possibly, be good for us all.

I just think that maybe we should expand our thoughts on this subject a little. It doesnt *have* to be a bad thing.

Juro I wholeheartly agree with your statements about being the cheap way out.

I appreciate your views on commercialism in SL. While of course I do not agree with them, you do make a good point.

Cat

Catherine the other thread got deleted ?

I must of missed the grief.

I respect your opinion and hope that my post there did not add to your feelings of persecution.

Offer still stands for Roller coaster ride.

I might not agree with your opinions (on this topic) but we can all still have fun in SL.

Davo thanks were is the coaster!! Woo Hoo I love rl coasters! Gimmie the SUPERMAN bring on the HULK... hehe

Cat

I'm not sure how I feel about commercialism in SL myself, but if it ever gets to this point (which sounds like There?), it may be time for a virtual revolution!

Coaster is inBLUE..everyone needs to got there.

Bumper cars, Big drop..great fun away from SL Stress.

and

Revolution ? - Again !