Please help me define 'offensive'

Copy of a letter I have sent to the webmaster:-

I'm trying to read the above thread, but the link doesn't work ... and I have just found out that it appears the thread has been deleted.

Let me say that I am very sorry indeed that you chose to take that course. There were a couple of intolerant and unpleasant posts, and the rest of the thread was full of comments that seemed to me to be to be sane and tolerant.

I hope the thread was not deleted because of the responses to the bigotry rather than the bigotry itself, but unfortunately that is the way it seems at present. Certainly by deleting the thread you have prevented people from expressing their more tolerant viewpoints.

I think that censorship of this kind is very, very dangerous. I have come from a virtual world where it was a common occurrence, and that was a world in which free speech ended up being totally stepped on and the rights of individual participants violated. Believe me, if SL ever shows real signs of going in that direction, you won't see me for dust.

Just to express my extreme disappointment.

Good letter Selador. I agree with you entirely.

Thanks Moopf. I feel really upset about this.

you think YOU are pissed?

Selador,

I was in mid reply to the comment about contraband and mall recruitment centers when it was deleted, so I was rather angry too that they deleted it. I imagine the reason they pulled it is because the original post was so unbelievably inflammatory and insulting that the thread was in danger of devolving into chaos. The replies were by and large tempered with intelligence, but there is a danger on such a divisive issue as Nazi flag=gay pride flag that I think it would have continued to get uglier. Christopher Nomad seems to have a knack for raising the ire of every intelligent, open minded person in SL, and the results in that thread ultimately would have gone to further personal attacks against his character or lack there of, which while well deserved, go against the spirit of the forums. Granted, this is all speculation on why they pulled it. There seems to be no rhyme or reason sometimes to deleted threads.

Cristiano

Wow, that is pretty disturbing..

Seems the mods here are even less tolerant than the original post...

Instead of defending my Conservative Views around here.... I got some flags to make.
Later

You can wrap your hatred and intolerance under the title "conservative views", it doesn't change its vileness, or yours.

Ohhh SNAP

I completely agree, but I must point out that disagreeing with homosexuality and the gay pride movement in no way is bigotry. You can disagree and have your own opinion without being preducial and discriminatory.

This is the worst action I have ever seen SL take, removing a thread because people have their own beliefs... My god, i guess they just want us to all believe the same thing.

JV

My God, I hate that, I don't know what MR. Nomad believes but you can't just say because he disagrees with homosexuality and gay pride that he is hateful. I disagree with both, yet I have many gay friends, I support gay marriage and I never discriminate against anyone.

You must recognize that as long as peoples beliefs do not cause them to be discriminatory then there is nothing hateful about their beliefs.

JV

Jonathan,

My statement is not based upon this thread alone. Christopher has a history of these kinds of posts, and what he is asking for is in essence discrimination. He does not believe gay people should even exist, and as such, that they should not be allowed to show pride in being gay, and wants the flags removed because HE finds them offensive. He even went on to equate the gay pride flag with the nazi flag. He has consistently shown an abominable lack of regard for other people in his postings, and is a far cry from someone like yourself, who while they may disagree with a topic, has the sense of mind to recognize differences in people. Bigotry is an active state - in order to be a bigot, you must perform some act of bigotry. Simply thinking someone is wrong for being gay, black, asian, latin, whatever in and of itself is not bigotry. Christopher Nomad has made it very clear that he is an active bigot who would gladly discriminate based upon his views.

Cristiano

Expressed beliefs can be considered hateful. If I state "I think gays are sinners and are going to hell, and deserve to die from AIDS", that is a hateful statement,even if that is my belief (which as you know, could not be further from the truth). No way around that one. Thinking homosexuality is wrong in and of itself is not hateful - nothing you have said or believe is hateful, while Christopher is the textbook definition of it.

Cristiano

Ok exactly my point, thank you. Just want to make that clear. Because I all too often see people attacked for not agreeing with homosexuality, or affirmative action being called bigots and racists when they are just stating their opinion.

I do believe Christopher went too far equating the flags and symbols but i still believe he had the right to say that and everyone had the right to flame him back for it. NOTHING SHOULD EVER BE DELETED FOR ANY REASON. Though LL does have the right to do it, it just shows their lack of dedication to free speech and expression which I think SL is supposed to be about.

JV

I need to agree with Cristiano here Jonathan, you're stepping into the middle of the story, not the beginning. This is just the latest post of C. Nomad in a long history of posts.

Now, to repeat my post in the deleted thread:

The flag issue.

The nazi flag proudly flew over a government that advocated, promoted and actively worked towards genocide, brutality, oppression and murder.

The confederate flag proudly flew over a government that advocated, promoted and actively worked towards slavery, brutality, oppression and murder.

The gay pride flag is proudly flown by citizens seeking equal rights, fighting against people who would deny them the same everyday rights they themselves take for granted.

There is no comparison Christopher. At least no -rational- or enlightened comparison.

I'm not sorry the thread was deleted. This forum is accessible to nonmembers. Such a nasty, inflammatory, intolerant post puts the worst possible face on our community. Yeah, I know it was only one guy, and NOT the community. But imagine being a new or prospective user and reading that! Yikes.

For what it's worth: Selador and others, I understand your concerns. In general, we have plenty of freedom to express ourselves here. If we didn't, this might not be so upsetting. In my opinion, CN's post crossed a line. We can debate all we want in world or in other forums.

Make a Heterosexual Pride flag, and fly it on your land.

Just a note:

The American flag proudly flew over a government that advocated, promoted, and actively worked towards slavery, brutality, oppression and murder for a LOT longer time than the Confederate one did.

(And, according to Paul Harvey, and you know anything HE says is true, Lincoln was more than willing to sign a constitutional amendment forever legalizing slavery, just to keep the union together. Sound familiar?)

integer love;

default
{
state_entry()
{

if (flag == "rainbow"
{
love++;
}
else
{
love++;
}

}
}

instead of talking about it just code it that way.

this should help alot of you.

remember variables are variables.

Christina,

Bravo!

one of the best, if not THE best, scripts i ever saw!

OK, I guess my argument is completely false. I retract that, the confederacy flag stands for justice, harmony and equality then. That's what I'll think everytime I see one from now on.

JUST SO WE ARE PERFECTLY CLEAR HERE
I NEVER EQUATED ANYTHING WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN FLY A FLAG OF A TYPE AND YOU GET CRAP FOR IT. PERIOD.

I NEVER COMPARED ANYONE TO ANY CONCEPT TO ANY FLAG!

I AM USING ALL CAPS BECAUSE YOU MF'ers ARE SO F'ing STUPID THAT YOU READ OTHER PEOPLES INFERENCES AND ATTRIBUTE THEM TO ME!

So I DESPISE Homosexuality.
Big hairy friggin deal!
I also dont care too much for foreigners, democrats, liberals, kurt cobain fans.
The list goes on and on and on... you know why?

I AM A F'in HUMAN WITH MY OWN OPINIONS!
Last time I checked I was ENTITLED to them!
Then again, most recently, being entitled to an opinion and actually getting to VOICE the F'in thing is tantamount to blasphemy against Social Equality and Human Rights.



Do not be afraid of the ones that speak their minds.
Be afraid when no one CAN.
Idiots.

Good point Moleculor. I personally find ALL flag worship to be rather creepy. I don't, however, equate a gay pride flag with flags of nations. The flags of nations are used as tools for indoctrination. Gay pride flags are used as forms of self-expression. There's a big difference in my opinion. If one shows up at my door in the hands of an angry mob of gay people who want to force me to conform to a homosexual lifestyle or face prison or worse, I'll change my view... just as I will if school children are ever forced to recite a pledge to it every morning.

Jellin,

While I'm with you on that one, the Confederate flag is complicated by the argument that the American flag, pre-confederacy, also flew over a nation that supported slavery.

Cristiano

I can't speak for anyone else, but it's not that you DESPISE homosexuality that gets to me, it's that you -also- want to prevent them from expressing themselves freely. Go ahead and cry foul all you want, it's your right, I applaud you for it.

What you can't seem to wrap your head around is those same rights apply to others. You know, the ones you don't like.