disturbing trends

a disturbing trend(IMHO) that i have noticed lately in sl is that people seem to forget that this is A GAME.

in game and on forums things seem to get too personal and too serious.really people...it cant be that bad. im here to have fun. just wanted to say this.

thank you for listening

I borrowed this from another thread, but fits here really REALLY well........




That says how I feel better than I could. Thanks for the GREAT words Bob.


-TK

What do you mean, "just a game?"

If it weren't for SL, I wouldn't have a social life!!

i do not discount anyones feelings or opinions. the quote you referenced has many valid points. BUT i also have an opinion that is just as valid. my opinion is that there are many people who take offense where none is offered and become just as hateful (if not moreso) than the original "offenders"

thank you


btw grim....i know,being the wonderful person that i am, its hard to believe but me too

Dragon:

The best response I can give is what my Mother always used to remind me when I was growing up:

"Your rights end, where another person's begin"

You must be the one to be responsible for your words, your actions, your conduct. Merely saying your desire isn't to harm anyone, isn't enough. The true measure of a person is found out when they realize that something they did was hurtful to another, although they didn't mean it to be. How that person responds and reacts shows what kind of person he/she is.

When I upset someone, and had no intention of it, I apologize. Not for what I've said, but for being insensitive and not knowing how what I said would be responded to.

It is ever more so important to do this in a virtual world, when we can't see the person on the other side of the keyboard. We all must be extra careful so not to say anything that could be misconstrued as being mean or nasty. We must especially be ready to apologize for our insensitivity as well.

It matters not what your desire was in what you said or did, it matters only how it was received.




Bob Bunderfeld

True, Dragon.

In a simulated social environment (any internet/AOL chatroom, for instance, not just SL) people tend to be more "froggy" and go overboard when they do get ticked.

Why??

Because they know that the person they're verbally assaulting can't jump through the computer screen and send them to the emergency room. They also rely on the fact that about 99% of the users on the 'Net wouldn't begin to know how to actually try to "locate" a user IRL.

AN IT HARM NONE , DO AS YE WILL

disagreement makes for change and advancement.
i just believe that walking away and calming down should be step 1. not an immediate counter attack



thank you

Dragon:

I will agree that people tend to go off after being offended by what someone has said, even if no offense was meant.

I will also tell you that those that act in this manner are just as wrong as those that say they shouldn't have to worry about what they said because they meant no harm.

When someone says something to me, that is hurtful, I will tell them calmly that what they just said, or did, hurt me. This usually is followed by an apology on the part of the person for offending or hurting me, and an apology on my part by mis-interpreting what they said.

No matter how hard we all try, there will be times, even when we believe we are being sensitive to a matter, that we offend someone. When that happens, and anytime that happens for that matter, I again re-iterate that we must apologize for our insensitivity.

Again, it's not how you meant something that counts, it's how it was received that counts.




Bob "The Builder" Bunderfeld

posting weather a joke or not is begging for a response. You are stating your opinion about what you think is just a game. The problem is there is people very different from you, hatebreeders. You post your little jokes and try to get a laugh, and then the ones who are really just playing this game to get a response come out of the woodwork.

It doesen't surprise me however, every game has your kind of jokesters, or people that think they have to make everything a joke. It's fine and good to laugh over others and what they've achieved but keep it up, those jokes can and will be taken as harrassment, I have played so many online games and I've seen it happen all too often. So if you must tell your little jokes, why do you insist on telling the whole community about it if you already know which ones will laugh and which ones won't why bring it to the forums?

This is the sole reason why online games suffer in alot of ways. I agree with Tracy and Bob 100 %. All the down to earth people will be the ones who make great communities and have great things happen in the game, All the pranksters and jokers will never last. Like I said before, been there done that, and seen it many times before. It's not funny and I don't give a ratts ass who thinks it is. And that's all I have to say.

I have to agree with Neo here.

Most trouble is caused by people who are either too lazy to do something constructive, jealous of someone else's achievements, or just immature as a matter of fact.

Witha that in mind, these people can also be the ones that destroy a game. Much like in Ultima Online, where I spent 3 years of my life, I was finally wore down by those that would come to disrupt the events, that I left the community we built only a couple of years earlier.

I was the Mayor of Oasis, a town on the Sonoma server, and I was proud of the accomplishments we had achieved. We were drawing an estimated 150 people a week to our "Fight Night" event, 50 people to our poetry readings, 30 people to our stage productions, and countless others for dungeon crawls. The problem became that there were a few people that were jealous of our achievement and as usual, too lazy to try to make their own city. So instead of trying to do something constructive in the world, they decide to become "griefers" and would not just interrupt our events, but would ruin them by coming there and having open warfare against those that came to watch and participate in the events.

The issue then was that the overseer's of the game bought into the lie that "it's just a game" and they can do whatever they want since they have paid their money. By my calculations, these few people caused at least 50 others to quit outright, never to return to UO. Once there was no one left to bother, these few quit as well. IF the overseer's would have seen the big picture, they would have realized that allowing one group to be anarchist in your game, will eventually run off those people who are making your game fun to play, and therefore, ruin any attempt at community building.

Thankfully, at least so far, the Linden's have seemed to be on target with their nforcement standards, and have been removing the pests from events, communities, etc., as needed. I hope the Linden's themselves understand that it is better to run off one pest, then to lose 10 customers.



Bob Bunderfeld

So you're saying that the only people that can do good things in SL are the humorless, supra-serious ones?

There is a difference between being a troll and being humorous!

I never said point blank that the people who make good things happen are totally boring humorless people. I just said that people who try to get a reponse by posting their little giggly comments on the boards are the people who are trying to ruin others gaming expierience. I used to play Ultima Online too and I fully understand where Bob is coming from.

The only difference between Ultima and this is that Lindens actually care about keeping customers happy because it is a community that keeps the game alive. Let in a few people who think that making fun of a commutnity that has done great things and u are looking at the potential invite to all others who think every single thing about an online game is funny. Grifing in this game, is not tolerated, ok fine, keep telling jokes about the communities that have outperformed alot of others, and u will, weather intentionally or unintentionolly knowing it, will make people leave the game. I don't think Linden will be happy for your comments then.

If people would stop and think, before blurting something out, then the game can keep growing stronger. In all games u have haters, in all games u have griefiers, the good thing is neither of these are tolerated in this game. Far as I know, this is the only game that actually cares about its customers, the players and the community as a whole.

I understand the point you are making, Dragon. It is just a game, after all, right? The problem is, online interaction is often not much different than exaggerated, dramatized offline interaction.

When you come down to it, some people are here to "play a game," and others are not. Some of these people are serious. Realistically, you can't begrudge any type of "player," since we all come here for our own reasons and my reasons may not be yours.

That being said, one thing people need to remember is that online interaction requires thick skin. Social communities are cliquish. Cliques are rough. This community has yet to mature, and yet it caters to people of all types. Therefore the edges are bound to remain rough wherever those differences are pronounced.

Participation on forums such as this practically requires a person to wear his/her best suit of armor. That is how it has always been, and, due to the anonymous nature of the Internet, how it will continue to be for some time.

Sometimes the kitchen gets hot. Those who don't care for the heat of the kitchen should avoid it when the pot of Super-Mega-Burn-Your-Tongue chili suddenly appears on the range.

-J

Wow, Neo - Your post really rubs me the wrong way. I think I know what you are trying to say though. You make it sound like any kind of joking and humour instantly ruined countless online games in the past. Joking around, I think, is the typical result of people having fun and people being friendly.

Like Schwartz said, jokes from friendly camaraderie in no way ruins any part of the game. If you think it does, then perhaps you *are* taking things to seriosuly.

Granted, someone that spends all their time walking around with a flamingo up their behind, or making stupid sound effects doesn't add much to the world, but they are easily ignorable and in my opinion dont ruin anything.




I think if people were TRYING to ruin your fun, they could think of a better way than posting 'giggly comments'. Rather, I think they are trying to be your friend, in their own way.

at what point did i tell a joke neo?????
this post was started believe it or not B4 tracy went after ironchef!!!!!!!

im just gettinng sick and tired of having MY GAME experience ruined because people cant GET OVER IT!!!!!

What you're conveniently ignoring is the fact that you seem to be having some difficulty getting over other people "ruining" your gaming experience.

But at the same time, you're main complaint is about people that aren't getting over someone else (possibly even you) ruining THEIR gaming experience.

So why should they get over it, but you don't have to?

I think it is just a game. I don't bother anyone. If someone tells me to stop doing something to them, I do. (It doesn't came to that often) If I am just screwing around and people are trying to be serious, I leave them alone and find somewhere else to goof off.
Please don't get mad at me because it is just a game to me. I build stuff, pay my taxes, and buy other people's stuff. I like to think that I am supporting what people are trying to create here. It is still just a game to me. It isn't like I don't think you guys are real or anything, but as soon as I press ctrl-q, it is over for me for the day.
I don't believe in being disruptive, but I still see it as a game.

It's all fun and games 'til someone loses an eye!

Well, I don't think its a game. I think its a bit unhealthy to refer to it as a game too. If people would agree to stop using that word, they might start to think a bit more clearly about just what it is. Saying it is a game is a way to trivialize the experience and the results of that trivialization can be very bad.

People turn up missing every day as a results of things they do on-line. People get married, divorced, have their bank accounts emptied or filled, do a better job raising their children, or neglect them entirely, thanks to how they spend their time on-line.

I've worked with two other virtual reality programs at length, and dabled with others, as well as interacted with people in IRC, various IM clients, Slashdot and numerous other on-line forums and NOT ONE of them is referred to as a game by their users.

The Lindens, I'm afraid, may have encourage this. Drawing Beta testers from UO, the SIMS and other on-line activities that might well be characterized as games, they accepted much of the same terminology as these programs use. On the other hand, when it came time to chose a name for the program, I think "Second Life" was intended to emphasize the seriousness with which they would like their users to take the experience. You can't have it both ways.

Regardless of whether you are on-line to tell jokes, engage in idle chit chat, create something beautiful, or educational, I hope you all are viewing your time in Second Life as an extension of your real life, and not something separate and apart from it. If you are using SL to escape from unpleasant issues in your real life you are going to find that those issues either follow you into your on-line experience or in your absence grow larger in real life.

Sorry to be such a downer, but the best way to have a healthy community is to make sure it is populated with people who know how to balance what they are doing on-line and offline, and prefereably bring the two things into harmony rather than making each the escape from the other.

im sorry....i think this is a game. in fact ive heard it called a mmog....i think the g stands for game. i actually think its funny that people get so worked over this. whatever....this all began with my OPINION which i an entitled to.

then it is just fun and games that they can't see.

Yes.

But other people are entitled to their opinions, even if they don't agree with yours.

You just have to learn to accept that to some people, it is much more than a game.

Why, you ask, should YOU have to accept that, without them necessarily accepting that to you it is just a game? That's not what I'm saying.

But, when was the last time someone trying to take their second life semi-seriously actively did something (unprovoked) for no reason other than to annoy you? I find that people that think of this as a game do this somewhat frequently. Those that take SL seriously almost never do it.

I think platform shoes are a disturbing trend... but that's just me... It DOES make people easier to knock over though...

Maybe we should get our terms straight. When I look up "game" all of the definitions indicate that a game is something involving rules of some kind. Now there are some exceptions such as:

* An illegal activity; a racket.
* Wild animals, birds, or fish hunted for food or sport.
* Mockery; sport: The older children teased and made game of the newcomer.

But I don't think SL falls into any of those categories.

All the rules in SL pretty much revolve around acquiring property and objects. If you don't care about building you can pretty much opt out of that part of the "game". If you had to compare it with some other game I guess it would be Monopoly. Other than that, the PROGRAM is open ended. With the appropriate agreements between some number of users, and possibly aided by some clever scripting, you can play tic-tac-toe, card games, tag, shoot-em-ups, just about anything you can imagine (I think this makes SL fairly unique).

Somehow I don't think that this is what the people who say "SL is just a game" have in mind though. Care to elaborate?

Exactly right Grim. Too bad that in a lot of these online situations there is no requirement that all users attend an annual meeting of some sort in real life. A lot of the online disputes would mysteriously vanish the next day I think.