two grids?

i was idly wondering if it would work to create a second grid and move some of the land mass to that grid, with a portal between the two grids.

/bump
/endorse
/rubberstamp

We could have different planets, planes, physics, satellites, gravity, space sims, etc etc etc... yes yes...

*Coughs* That's actually a good idea...assuming they can make the support for it Where I played...they eventually came out with FIFTY-TWO servers, and still haven't improved the actual game/servers/customer support...but they DID up the price to play...great combo if you ask me. The whole support team could be logged in 24/7 and we wouldn't even have made a dent in the help xD

i was hoping that maybe this might alleviate the login/asset problems.

it was just an idle thought.

Philip told me that this solution would destroy the perception of one contiguous world. I've never understood why that perception is so fucking important. Sorry, it's just a silly notion that everybody has to be logged into THE WORLD all the time.

THE WORLD, and the idea that we couldn't adjust to having two or three ground meshes in a sim at 50, 250 and 500 feet, presume that we possess the mentality of cattle. Well then, so do flight height limits, 1/2 XML/RPC, teleporters...mooo

I've always held the controversial opinion that the PG and Mature grids should be entirely seperate. This doesnt mean precluding people one from the other, it simply means 2 seperate grids completely covered by PG and Mature areas.

Sounds like Star Wars Universes to me. We are unique. We do not need to duplicate other worlds.

/Rejected
/overruled
/veto

No matter how many "worlds" you would have.. everyone still uses the same login cluster of servers. Even if you had no physical connection between the seperate "worlds" you would still be using the same login server cluster.

I do not know for positive, but I am willing to wager that the teen grid also uses the same login cluster as we do. There are specific reasons to use only one login cluster.

i was thinking by separate grid, have separate login servers for each grid.

well sorta. i haven't really thought it all through.

I can not say for sure as I have no access, nor want any, to the teen grid.. but if someone has a child that plays also and can find out the login server IP I am willing to bet you they use the same login server cluster for both the adult and teen grids.

If you take any MMORPG on the market.. from UO to WOW. They all use a single site login server cluster even though they have seperate geographical locations for their "worlds".

The advantages of having a single server cluster for login outweighs any of the disadvantages associated with such a setup.

except the current disadvantage is that people can't log in.

then again the problem might only be the asset stuff, and creating two grids with separate asset servives might help.

just speculating really. without a good look at the architecture there's not way to be sure. it's just that having working with "middle-ware" servers... these symptoms look familiar.

In fact this will not work.

It's a network effect. The value of the network grows exponentially to the number of the nodes.

The solution is to decentralize your backend database.

my idea decentralizes the backend db into two db.

and then keep adding grids as needed. this does mean that grids have a max size/population.

The inability to log in stems from code and possiblity of inadequate resources to handle the traffic.

No matter how you cut it, no matter how many login server clusters you would like spreed geographically around the world.. somewhere at some point you will still have to have 1 (and only 1) centralized location to tell the client which login cluster to use... and then we are right back to are starting point.

For those that say "Well we can just setup multi-homed login server ip's in the client". Sure LL could do that but then you are now having to maintain and keep up syncronization of all those nodes. This causes for added risk in many areas, security just being one.

There is a reason why they centralize this information, it is a good reason. Login issues are not the sole property of LL or SL. Every MMORPG has login issues. Specialy during peak hours or holidays.

I am not saying LL does not need to beef up their login cluster, by all means it is apparent they do.. whether that is better coding or more resources I can not say though. They will have to make that judgement.

not necessarily. coming up with a new solution would be a good thing.

Actualy you are talking about two different db's. The login cluster does not use the same db as the live db used by the grid itself. Or I should say the ones I have worked with do not use the same db. The login server clusters usualy use your administrative db to determine your status... i.e. Active account, suspended account, type of account, access restrictions, etc. While your live db is not worried about that, that is what the login process is for. Live db holds your items, demensions, inventory, land, etc.

So while breaking up the grid would releave the live db, it would do nothing for the login db which is what seems to be the problem right now.

Again, this is going by what I have personaly worked with. I know nothing about the db's in use by LL themselves.

Ok, what solution do you present?

Somewhere along the line your client will have to communicate with LL. Where do you propose that point should be? How do you propose letting the client know which one to use if you want multiple clusters?

there are mutliple mmorpgs. they don't all share the same login server.

set up grids as if they were different "games". this should solve the central login problem.

the tricky part is allowing a portal between the grids. i have not solution for this.

Simplicity - if they had two grids they'd be deader than flares.

Each one of those games though has a different client. Lets put aside for the minute they also each are owned by different companies but within the companies the use the same basic server cluster for all their games they make... SOE is a prime example of this with its subscription service that allows you to log into all the games it currently offers for one price.

So now you are suggesting that not only multiple login servers, but also multiple clients? Geographical in nature perhaps?

It would be extremely uneconomical to have a login server for each "word". Not only uneconomical but it would cause security risks with your private information spread around the world in local server clusters.

The tecnical problems of telling the client which login server to connect to is also a concern. Login servers do more then just "handshake" with the client, gets it credentials, verifies said credentials, and then lets you pass or blocks you from entering. It also checks your version, offers updates, forces database changes if need be, and other technical aspects during login.

The more of these servers around the more traffic it creates just to keep the login servers synced just to the main office db. Not only that but now each "world" has to pay for its own private login cluster.

Come on guys it's been done already - Ultima Online did it.

no.
client can connect it it's home grid.
same client. just specify where it starts the process of connecting.

what they do in particular? (not familiar with ultima online)

It already does this. So no change, why all the fuss? The client will never beable to connect directly to its own grid if that is what you mean. The grid has no clue if you have the correct credentials to use its resources. The grid is the game, it uses a seperate db then the login servers, hence why the login servers are dragged to a bog yet in-game smooth as silk (currently in-game, but had 2 hour log-in).

I think you need to re-read my whole post, as you can not just disect what you believe is important and disregard what you believe is irrelevant. I should say.. you could do that but then it is no longer a constructive discussion. Certain things must happen before you are allowed on the grid, this is true currently and will always be true. If you force each grid to handle its own login process you have only simply shuffled the cards, the deck stays the same.

LL is not going to take the security risk of multi-homing its account db thru-out the world to each "grid", nor will it do it even at a local level. It will be technically & economicaly unviable for them to do so.

If you have each grid take care of its own login process the grid will still have to lookup your information in the account db, check your credentials, and deny or approve your access. So you will still have the bottleneck... all you have added was now it will also affect those in-game already by using up valable game resources for a login problem.

no fuss. just random walking through the problems.