SL residents... cliquish & unfriendly!!??

kk
I may get flamed for this but, my best friend ( lives in Canada) tried SL at my urging.

She's been in TSO for 2 yrs now and wanted her to join me in what I consider the best game to come along the internet.

Her acessment of SL?

Unfriendly & cliquish! no one spoke to her at all.

I was a little miffed that she didn't tell me so I could be there to "mentor" her thru the rough spots, but none the less......

I also find SL cliquish. Go to a club or event offering L$ for best_______( insert event)
and it's nothing more than a popularity contest for the regulars that KNOW the club dancers, owners, and managers. An outsider doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning. ( This is why these type of events infuriate me so. I rarely go. )

I don't know the details of her visit..... that's why i'm still miffed about it.. uggh

Thinking she had her mind made up when she logged on. * shrug*

Tell your friend to move into a random RL village and go around poking everyone for attention, see how that works for her

There are times when I am mindful that someone is simply not at their computer, or busy in IMs. I'm in the latter situation myself and there's no handy way of indicating this apart from perhaps making a custom group and changing the name, or rezzing a prim with a sign above you... but not as seamless as I'd like it to be.

It always struck me as odd in a lot of clubs or casinos, how you start talking and most people are just idling there on the off-chance to collect money. This seems very detached like they are some sort of robots. They seem so lively and dancing too, which is deceptive because who knows, someone might actually be deathly sick and in bed behind the keyboard!

Zarah, sucks your friend had that experience. However, the nice thing is these experiences are part of a greater SL whole, and it's good to encourage to keep exploring all about... the whole "silent" bit still happens to me time to time, so I just keep pressin' on!

you want the answer to her dilemma (and yours)?

start your own club.. form your own uber-clique

BUT, make the "thing" about your new Club Clique to be anti-clique.. which'll be what's so gosh darn cool about it.

unlike RL, that's the beauty of SL.. if you don't like the weay something is being done, just go do it to your liking somewhere amongst the wide expanses of Esselle.


of course there's cliques.. it comes natural to us humans. not a big deal.. so what? there's plenty of other things to do. it's not a reason to give up, hell it's a reason to be inspired!

there are way too many things to do or placs to go to assume that it's ALL run by cliques.. there IS somewhere were fun can be had without fear of the ruling clique/s.. as a matter of fact, there a bunch. use the Find feature.. make a day out of it.. have her come back with you and you can both go for a jaunt around the grid.. finding new and exciting things.

just have some fun and don't worry about whatever gets you down.. this is SL! which also means, it takes a while to get acclimated..

what if you came from a different planet and were plopped down on Earth.. what's the chances you could find a cool place to go that wouldn't seem like you weren't part of the "in crowd"? but after spending some time figuring life out.. you would easily find something you enjoy. and it's so much easier to do in SL.. partially due to the fact that you can literally make your own fun!!

I have generally found clubs to be the way Zarah described them.

As a matter of fact, when new people approach me and ask for ideas about what there is to do in SL, I offer the "clique" caveat with respect to clubs. I really find no surprise in this because, as a former co-owner of a club in RL, and friend/acquaintance of many club owners (again, RL), I have seen it all too often, and SL tends to mirror RL in that respect.

This is not to say that there are no clubs in SL or RL that aren't clique-like, there are - they are just elusive nuggets for the most part, unless you happen to stumble upon one.

As far as SL as a whole, I don't find it to be any more clique-like than RL, and I usually suggest tringo type activities, or simply flying about exploring, saying "hi", and introducing one's self. speaking for myself, I always make time when a new SLer approaches me.

Zarah, I am so sorry to hear that your friend's experience was at all like this. For the first five weeks or so, my experience was similar--I would go for days without ever being addressed or greeted, almost regardless of where I was. But SL is just so gosh-darned neat, and I learned so very much about what it means to be in-world by just listening.

If either you or your friend care to meet some nutty, intelligent, fun, strange, cute, clever, and/or darling (and astounding combinations of all of these qualities) human beings, let me introduce you to my friends list.

IM me in-world and we will go get in some trouble.

Unfortunately there are cliques everywhere, SL is no exception. I remember when I first started and a few girls I had met started going to the top 'Popular Club' at the time and trying in vain to win a wing contest with my newbie wings. I thought to myself, hey these wings are hawt...I have to win. Unfortunately I didn't, some girl in only a thong with incredibly small wings won...If she was even wearing any...eh go figure.

About a month later I had bought myself a snazzy skin and some hoochie hair and started hanging out at the same club almost every nite with some friends. We got invited to be 'Dancers' (not escorts cuz that's not my thing) and we thought it was pretty cool. There were money drops and stuff and apparently we could be tipped by people just by dancing all sexorlike. I didn't get tipped much because unlike the other girls, I didn't repeat 'Tip me I'm HOT!!' over and over. But I started noticing a trend about the people who won the contests and the drops. It seemed to be the same close knit group of people won and I had heard from others that there were some alts involved as well. My friends and I tried different clubs with the same thing happening. Only certain people winning...not mattering if someone else technically should have won. It was really unfair to the people that should have won.

One night while still in my newbie days there was a contest at a club for the best Demon/Demoness. I decided to go because someone had given me some red demon skin and I thought hey why not try. I actually ended up winning the grand prize of 2k, and I didn't know a soul there. So this really surprised me because of what I had seen before at different clubs. They then had a best in red contest, since I was already a red demon with nothing to do, I stayed and won the next contest. I was very happy and surprised that people would have voted for me since I had won the last contest. I almost felt bad in a way, but then thought hey...I deserve it from not ever winning before lol. I bought my first land and some furniture with my winnings...it was nice.

There are all types of cliques in SL, the club cliques, the forum cliques, the mafia cliques, etc. There are friendly and unfriendly people anywhere you go. There are also PLENTY of nice helpful people who do not judge and who could care less about cliques, etc. I believe that people are more accepting of diversity in SL than irl. I am pretty shy unless I know you, but I have helped many a newbie with what I could. I'd say if anyone were to leave SL because of 'cliques' and the like, then they are missing out on meeting some wonderful people. I could care less if you are a so called Barbie wannabe, a goth, furry etc. I see people as people and if some people are just rude because they think they are better than you, I just drop a C4 down their pants, usually gets rid of that high horse

Sorry to ramble so much but it is slow at work and I am bored lol.

Zarah - while you may be right - she may have formed an opinion formed before she came...

I wish she could have come by the Shelter. We may not have been able to change her opinion, but we would have driven her to drink with our sickeningly nice attitude

Maybe you could convince her to stop by for one last shot at SL?

Zarah, why would your friend believe Second Life would be anything different from Real Life? Who do you think is sitting behind all those pretty cartoons?

Actually, people in SL can actually afford to be bigger jerks due to anonymity and obviously, many are.

The key is to look for the good and not the bad. Harder to find, but the reward is greater.

Well you talked *ME* into it. Hope Zarah's friend will go too

Sometimes when building anything (including communities) builders use tools and materials that are familiar to them because they know they will work. If I am having an event, (which I do in order to build community as much as anything else) I may invite specific people that I know will be good for that event, as well as folks on the VIP list who have indicated they want to come. I like to see new people at events though and am always astounded and happy when new folks come out to events such as the group bedtime story (we'll have one again on wednesday) or the scener's competitions. We often get new folks who come around the spa. Some come back and become a part of the regular crowd. All it takes is persistance and friendliness to become part of the SL community (well in some circles anyway).

Structured activities are often a good way to break the ice. I wouldn't limit that to tringo, however. And maybe don't consider winning the contest the sole purpose for going to an event. I have actually twice won contests when I was an outsider to the clique so it is possible. Sometimes people vote for their friends, sometimes they vote based on who talked and was friendly and fun, sometimes they genuinely vote for outfits. But these aren't the only kinds of social offerings available in world. Opportunities for involvement in many different areas abound. I'd say some of the best friends I made in game I found just hanging out at the sandbox.

I only find this to be partially true, but when it happens it leaves a seriously bad taste. Hit the events listings and go to anything that looks offbeat. There are a lot of really nice people out there.

Lastly:
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People are trying to build a wider community with different options.

Howdy
It's actually kind of ironic because I just had a similar experience with TSO.
I was there almost 3 weeks without talking to one single person. Not for lack of trying either. I about went into shock when someone said hello back. So it's not just SL.
I will admit that I find SL to be a little lonely, but I also recognize that I in turn am not
the most social person and that I could go out of my way to be friendly instead of waiting
for folks to talk to me. (And usually when they do I'm busy, doesn't that just figure?)

One of the hardest cultural switches for me to make between the games was learning how to play a game where there was actually something to do. In TSO you can't just visit someone's empty build. So theoretically if their home is open they want visitors. There's nothing else to do but set your sim to a task and mindlessly watch them do their thing. So talking to others is all there really is.Where as in SL we can actively interact with our world so rarely does anyone just sit about watching their avatars on screen...and thus the inclination to sit there and chat goes down. Because...there is Doing that can be Done. Places to Explore. (To me this is a really profound and signifigant point on why she might find people unfriendly.) To counteract that I think more folks need to learn the art of IMing rather than just showing up at someone's place and expecting them to drop their Doing just to chat. I'm more than happy to chat for hours with a stranger if our avatars don't have to be face to face and I can do my own thing in the meantime.

One other tiny thing you might tell your friend is that the chat distance is very small. If she tried talking to folks and got no response they simply could have been out of range. I thought folks were pretty darn rude until I got a handy dandy tracker that tells distances & realized I was too far away to be heard.
I hope your friend gives it another go. Honestly after experiencing life here I can't imagine going back to TSO and being satisfied with it.

Well this got long,
eep!

-Sun

I've noticed and commented (in world) on the cliquishness of the contests. I've seen some incredibly well made outfits and av's lose to another that wasn't even close in my opinion. Sadly, it's the way things are. I don't go to the clubs much anymore either, for just those reasons. I spend my time in my relatively small group of friends. However, I don't think I've ever ignored anyone in my time here. Well, there are a few exceptions, but that's life too. I've had a few "newbies" in the past few days drop in at the house that I've helped out, after landing there while "just checking out the builds".

So, after all that being said, Zarah, I'm sorry your friend had a bad experience here. Have her give it another try, she may just find some good people occasionally.

Peace,
Joseph

Sunshing Cleo, before I forget, what and where did you find that 'tracking device' for chat Chat is driving me crazy!!!!; but, I know I just have to learn.

I found your comments interesting about the difference between TSO and SL and am too finding sl incredibly hard to get used to, after being in TSO for over two years. But, as you say......it would be hard to go back now.

Zarah, I hope your friend tries SL again. I tried Sl out at the urging of my friends in TSO who 'crossed over'. However, I did do a lot of reading before I came (mainly the SL Herald and Hamlet's articles). That gave me an idea that there was a lot more to see here than clubs. (nothing against clubs, I love dancing in sl). And yes, I understand you feeling frustrated not knowing when she was going in.......it's terribly foreign if you don't have some help. I did have help, and my friends were so happy that I came, but, after that, I needed to figure out things and explore on my own. Perhaps she will try again if you make a date to meet in a soothing place, and go from there

I know that not everyone is looking for the same things anywhere, but.......there is nothing like flying and watching the moon come up, or stumbling across that amazing aerodrome (the name escapes me, sorry) or wandering through the hanging gardens of Babylon. I've only been here since midsummer; i'm still feeling (and acting) like a newbie but so thrilled at the sights and the nice people I've met. I sure hope you can convince her to try again; there is just so much to see and very many nice people

Howdy Ronnie
It's not actually a tracking device for chat, it's just a device that tells you the distance between you and other avatars.
This is what it pops up:
Tracker: [Sunshine Clio @ 17M])
Kind of annoying in the beginning to get used to but now I love it and barely notice it.
I may have got it at YadNi's junkyard when I was new...I'm really not sure. But I dropped one on you so you don't have to look around for it.


Sun

FlipperPA Pergrine also has a tool that does this and several other cool things including being able to change floating text over your head without a group. I can't remember what all it does but it has several nifty functions. Go to Indigo to Flipper and JennyFur's store and look for Flip's AV Tools.

If you are an adult whining about not winning a best dressed contest, you have self esteem and social issues that need to be adressed outside of SL. That $.50 USD you just missed out on for not winning the sexy thong contest must be earth shattering.


A couple weeks ago I went around SL with a friend to all these random tackyass clubs to see what was going on in SL, and we were greeted as soon as we showed up. We were not dressed like the people in the club, we didnt dance, but everyone said hello and was nice. That has always been my experience at every club. I have never been to a club in SL and had people not greet me.


I think a lot of people come in SL, fly around and run into people doing stuff. Most people in SL are creating things. Currently it is hard to create and type to people at the same time. When I owned my land in Derwent I used to have as many as 10 newbies drop in a day and ask me random questions while I was in my house working. I would sometimes stop and talk to them, but I can't stop and talk to every person that drops in, I would never get anything done.


SL is not TSO or There where, there is nothing to do in world but be social, SL is an entirely different experience, maybe you should have explained this to your friend a little better.

To amplify Euterpe, it usually takes meeting only one nice person who typically knows other nice people; Lather, rinse, repeat.

SL is cliquish only in the sense that there are a finite number of people that one can know reasonably well, and they - not unlike RL - tend to hang with the people they know. In my experience, the Welcome Area and clubs are about the best places places to be lost in the crowd. Also, SL is a lot to drink in at first, I'm not too surprised that meeting people comes second to learning to get around.

Contrariwise, Travis's "The Shelter" is about one of the best places to not get accidenally ignored.

As I have taught my daughter, never under estimate the power of saying "Hello" in order to meet people; the same goes in SL.

Zarah, drop her name on most of the people in this thread and soon she'll be lamenting that she knows too many people.

Agreed, Shelter is the best club for newbies... very friendly place for anybody, really. I rarely go to other clubs anymore for the same reasons others have mentioned... the cliquishness is annoying and the 'contests' just get to be a bore. In contrast, I can come back to Shelter again after a long absence and get greeted warmly.

I felt pretty lost and overwhelmed when I was a newbie, too. It took me a while to settle in and make a few friends and feel comfortable. It's like moving to a new city in RL... you almost always feel lost until you start getting to know the people around you, and the best way to do that is one at a time.

I've had more luck talking to people individually than hanging out in crowds... if you approach someone who looks interesting and say hi, most people will greet you back if they aren't busy or lost in IM's. I get newbies dropping by my land now and then, and I always make an effort to say hi and talk for a few minutes if I can. I hope your friend gives it another chance and tries a few different places this time. We're all pretty nice once you get to know us.

In my experience, the friendliest people (and the most interesting things) are in the Sandbox areas. It's probably best to avoid someone who looks like they're intently at work, but generally any group of people standing around talking is friendly and will welcome anyone who walks up and joins in. Plus you see people working on new stuff -- waaaaay more fun than a club.

YMMV, of course.

Jess

I'm going to jump in and give my Kudos to The Shelter as well. I ran into a new person at the Relay for Life event. They were super impressed already with SL due to the displays at that event, and because of the cause and implementation.

At any rate, there were still a lot of basics for him to learn. He did not even really know how to use find and teleport. So I told him about the Shelter, and explained that I was going to go there and "summon" him in. I explained it all of course. hehe.. At any rate, we got there, and I needed to log. But I felt confident he would find the help he needed as well as many free goodies. When I left him, this new person was relaxing in a chair in the center of the club and sounded excited. I logged with a smile on my face!

It certainly helps to have a friend already in the game introduce you around. From there it grows. But I urge you to not dismiss all clubs--there are many that are very friendly. One of the reasons that some clubs seem to have lopsided contest prizes is because of a crappy management practice of some club owners: they make their employees run their own events and put up their own prize money, often with *no* reimbursement from the owners. In such clubs, of course the employees are going to play tricks to try and keep their money that the manager should be spending, not making them spend out of their own pocket.

Again, not every club is like this! I could recommend a bunch of them but there are so many genres, lol. Do a Find for genres/themes you like and just go sample the various clubs until you find ones to your liking... it's that simple. If you're shy, introverted, and prone to feeling rejected, you'll have a hard time in this game or any MMO environment.

Also, as other posters have mentioned, it's *very* common for someone to be standing there looking at object editing screens or scripting screens or an IM window with 5 tabs blinking. When you're in this state, you don't have the bandwidth to stay on top of local chat as well, so it's quite normal for a person to simply not notice you even if you're in chat range with them. Many folks have learned ways to flag when they're in such a state, but many more have no idea what tools are available for this purpose.

After reading this thread I've decided we all suck and aren't worth the effort..

That's funny because after reading this thread I've decided we're all excellent and should carry on doing whatever it is we do...