Let's discuss VOTE BOOTHS

There have been a lot of threads about different parts of the economy lately and what to do, or not do about them. I'm interested in a thread about vote booths.

Love them or hate them I feel they are a necessary evil of SL. Why? They keep money flowing in the economy on a daily basis. Since I've been here the transfer of goods and services have started to flow but in the beginning (my beginning since I wasnt here in THE beginning) most people traded, bartered or just plain gave stuff away, so they were how money flowed.

Some people worked them to their advantage by hosting events... even on a daily basis. Others found places like Lindenburg to be a boom since there was a cluster of like minded people who wanted to support one another. You could get 7-10 votes a day hardly doing anything! (ps that used to be a lot of votes).

"Back then" the biggest group was 8 people ("the first group", I think it was called).

Now, groups are coming in pre organized (Valens, wwiiol) or grouping inworld (noise tanks) and clustering. A good thing overall and something I *think* the Lindens hoped for and expected.

BUT what does this mean for the current Vote Booth setup?

For weeks the top vote getters were the Valens. They were smart enough to learn about the system and make it work for them. Now we have an even larger group who is starting to learn the ropes.

I came up with this possible scenario: (feel free to try it if you are in this position, I'm not and I'm interested to see what would happen and how the Lindens would or wouldnt deal with it).

DISCLAIMER: This is all hypothetical and untested!

Say for instance I am a trusted leader of a large group. My group all has individual vote booths and maybe a few make over 4 votes, many do not and even fewer get high numbers. I get this brilliant idea and tell all the people in my group to try an experiment for a week. Everyone pitch their vote booth but me (After all Im the trusted leader, heh). Everyone votes on my booth and tries to get others to do the same. I can even make a nifty scripted item to log all my people so I know who voted. Everyone in my group is instructed to vote for me and no one else. After the results come in I get the list of my people and divide all the $ the booth makes amoung my group that voted (outsiders not included of course, thats gravy).

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IF this were to happen and IF it were to work we *could* will end up with large groups getting all the vote money and individuals left behind.

The solution? I'm not sure. My initial thought is a cap or max votes before you just dont make any more L$. Thats difficult though because the world is ever growing.

SO, how do you think the current Vote Booth system could be improved? Is it great the way it is? Should we pitch it altogether? What are your thoughts?

Oh jeez misnomer that is a mild thing compared to what is happening:

A group of people gets together and puts 8 or 10 votes within as many meters. All 8 - 10 people vote for all 8 - 10 booths. In total they get 64 - 100 votes a day. On a low day booths are still worth around $10 a vote (havn't checked too lately though) so thats $640 to $1,000 for one group. And thats with only the group members voting.

Your method would be much fairer because they still require individual votes for your one booth. A much lower count would be happening.

I'm late for a meeting, I will post actual ideas later.

although i'd have to say i don't like them because they can be abused, i don't fully understand what the vote booths were meant to accomplish in the first place. maybe theres a better way to accomplish what was meant.

Yes I know of the groupings. Its easy to see who's doing it, just watch the results for a week (or less). I know my idea wasnt thought through but that being said, I also know that fewer booths with higher #s equal more $ per vote.

Unless a linden verifies that the voting booths are for seperate builds but yea I really think the voters should be a rating system for building not a $ reward

funny, i just found the following here:

04/22	Yuniq Epoch		27	228	 $522 	Clyde		77, 233
04/23	Yuniq Epoch		25	253	 $751 	Clyde		77, 233
04/25	Yuniq Epoch		28	281	$503 	Clyde		77, 233

while the WWIIOLers are just a hare behind yuniq, i fail to see even half of that "64 - 100" you're stating. i'm not trying to break down your argument -- i think votes unfairly favor groups; exaggeration destroys the credibility of one's arguments.

I'm talking for the group as a whole: 8 people each with 8 votes is 64 votes -for the group-. And thats a small group that you convince each to vote for eachother, no outside votes.

It was a comparison to feniks proposal with 1 booth for the entire group.

And I think my point still stands. I don't think those 64 votes are legitimate. :-/ At least not towards the original goal of the voting booths.

but if i'm in group A and three of my friends are in group A, and we all click each others' voting stations, does that mean i get $120 (assuming $10 a vote)? no. we each get $30, to spend among ourselves as we see fit. if you build near people who have similar tastes in design, then you'll be more likely to get more votes -- group or not. the reason WWIIOLers get a lot of votes is because their buildings (and voting stations) are situated among people with similar tastes in building structure: bunkers. if i were to take my bunker and put it in the middle of perry, i doubt i'd get near as many votes as i do in jessie.

there are structures in jessie i don't like -- and i don't click their voting stations, regardless of whether they're a WarGamer or WWIIOLer or not. there are structures designed by Technomancers (Noise Tanks -- self-declared enemy of WWIIOLers/WarGamers, at least according to darkwave) that i think are just awesome, and i will vote on them.

if you have friends in SL, whether or not they're in your group, encourage them to visit and vote for you. i think the voting station doesn't reward groups... it rewards social people. if you keep to yourself inside your house all day, you won't make any friends, so you won't get any ratings, and you won't get many votes. this system (both ratings and voting) rewards socialization, which is what SL is all about*.

* to those who say it isn't, i ask: what can you do in SL that you couldn't do in an offline game, besides socialize? SL allows you to model, texture, and code, but that's not what makes it unique. SL takes those features, and wraps them up in a great social environment... a recipe for a truly stellar, one of a kind game

Phil: Did you read Mis. post? She proposed a way to take advantage of the system where eveyone gets all their votes to go to the same booth, then splits the money among the group.

I said that was a mild way of taking advantage because you can still only get one vote from each person. Where as you can do what I suggested and get 8 votes for each person on a group level basis, which generates votes much quicker.

That is what my post was about.

And I'm not actually talking about the WWiiOLers. My contact with them and with Jessie has been minimal.

Have you been to the south east corner of Federal?? In a 10m * 10m square there is at least 6 Valen booths, with one haphazard structure. And within another 10m radius from those there are at least a few more. That isn't taking advantage of the system? Hello??

I don't have a problem with like minded people getting together and getting votes cuz they all like each others buildings. I do have a problem with Booth Grave Yards, where the booths are the attraction, and they still get lots of votes. That disgusts me.

Why? Cuz I work hard for my buildings and partake in legitimate groups, and I get no where near the votes of these vote grave yards, where the entire effort went into finding an open square of land and putting out half a dozen or more voting booths from your friends.

The simple fact of the matter is that given any system, someone will always find a way to take advantage of the system.

So the question becomes, do you have any suggestion on how to fix the system? And to even begin to answer this, you need to know what the original intent of the booths was. Which I do not, although i would guess that it was to start tracking general likes/dislikes of the built world, and to introduce someone for people to earn some supplemental income. Maybe a linden could clarify this?

I don't have an answer. I boycott them.

Okay.

Some people worked them to their advantage by hosting events... even on a daily basis. Others found places like Lindenburg to be a boom since there was a cluster of like minded people who wanted to support one another. You could get 7-10 votes a day hardly doing anything! (ps that used to be a lot of votes).

So it wasnt a problem then....but now that someone is doing the same thing on a larger basis its a problem? We are 'finding a way to take advantage of the system'?

Hehe, I kind of find it funny that even the people who are profiting from the influx of WW2OLers are still having a tough time accepting us. Its like you are saying its okay to do it when there arent many people in the game and you are benefitting from the system, but God forbid a bunch of people come in and do the same thing. Now its suddenly a problem.

I dont know what the point of the voting booths is and I'm not going to pretend like I do by making up my own definition. All I know is votes = money and I want to help my friends out by voting for them. Got a problem with that? If so, post a sign in front of your voting booth that says DONT VOTE FOR ME UNLESS YOU REALLY LIKE MY BUILDING!! DONT VOTE FOR ME JUST BECAUSE I AM A NICE GUY!!

This is just a freakin popularity contest, IMO. A few people went from being big fish in a small pond to being average fish in an average pond. I can see how that would be upsetting. But I doubt we are doing anything much different than what you guys did...or tried to do.

BTW, I click on most of the voting booths I come across....even your guys booths. Just seems to me to be a nice thing to do. Boycott? Because you dont like us, right? Has nothing to do if wether one of us builds something nice, right Nada?

Avondell

Uh Avondell, I think Nada meant he boycotts booths in general. ^.~

I do not vote because I do not like the system, for two reasons.

1. i do not believe in money. i do not charge for my scripting help or projects, because I prefer to barter, not necessarily like an immediate 'i will trade you this script for that texture' but more in the sense, 'you need a script, i will write, and someday you can do something nice for me.' A strictly money based economy just doesn't do it for me; all transactions are just kind of empty. it is like having someone give you $20 on your birthday...mindless. yeah it is nice to get money, but it means more if they take the time to figure out what to give you
2. This is not the way the lindens have ever talked about having the economy work.(they want it to work the way I dislike) where user's generate the market, and money is passed from user to user, more like in the RL. The problem is that it doesn't/can't work that way just yet. The only things that really sells well are guns, so unless you are an arms dealer, the only real way to make money is through the voting booths (and this is what i disagree with).

So you see it has nothing to do with whom I like or don’t like. On a side note, you do have my respect, because of several of your posts the 'wwiiol pwned you' thread (which was probably the worst publicity stunt in the history of SL ), but beyond that I do not 'know' you enough to have formed an opinion.

My general philosophy concerning people is that I assume that I will like you, until proven otherwise. No one has proven otherwise, but maybe that is just because they don't know where i live Avon, come by my place in federal (200, 200) right next to the valen's place, and tracey 'I can build a box' kato's house, if you want, i am usually on for the first two hours it is open, later on weekend. Invite goes out to everyone for that matter. I like guests.

Yeah, I agree with Nada. I used to do pretty well with vote booth, but I wasn't using them for the intended reason (as I see it). So I deleted all my Vote Booths. I still vote occaisionally, just as a polite thing to do, but to tell you the truth, I have not missed mine in the least.

I kinda run with Nada's barter philosophy - Usually if you ask me, I'll give you stuff for free (if I have the time to do the work). I have stuff on sale, and people buy it, but ask around, you will find that my most "valuble" gear is given away for free. In return, I make second life a more freindly "small town" kinda place, which is a lot more fun for me than some ambition for lots of cash.

I also think the vote booths get old fast. There is a unofficial policey of no vote booths in the themed community I am working on, and I think its great, because a picket line of vote booths would detract from the look of the place.

All in all, I think they are not usefull in the manner they are intended to beused for (to promote holding impromptu parites etc) and I think they should be gotten rid of.

BBC

Nada and BBC, I agree that barter is a fun way to do business. I have bartered with both of you, plus a few others and yes, it gives me a good feeling inside. However, until such time as the Lindens accept a barter system to pay our taxes and rez an object, we need a way to sustain ourselves and our love for building or scripting or whatever it is that keeps us coming to Second Life. And that way for the majority of SLers is the Voting Booth.

AS I’ve said in other threads, there is absolutely no way for the new guy to make money now. There are already 100’s of people making and selling guns, clothing, furniture and widgets. Until the new person has been here long enough to establish himself, the Voting Booth is probably the only thing they have.

As with the stipend, the pot of money the Voting Booth funds are drawn from has stayed constant while the number of people who rely on the income from them has probably doubled. I really feel sorry for the new people. They are almost doomed to be homeless vagabonds till such time as they find a group and reap the benefits of “joint” efforts.

Having said all that…..I agree that the Voting Booth system as it is now is flawed. Having 10 or 12 booths surrounding one location is not right, and I doubt that anyone other than the members of that group is voting on them. I used to do what a lot of others did, and vote on a set route every day, but with the new rules regarding payouts, now I vote for the buildings that deserve a vote, which end up being the majority of the ones I was voting for to begin with. But to NOT vote at all, you’re doing a disservice to the people who take pride in their buildings.

i'm still really confused as to what the voting booths are meant to accomplish. is it for a good builder? a good event? i don't get it.

the voting booths aren't tied to any specific skill or event at all. to me they're just a general "click here to make me some money" system. and you could basically put them anywhere.

there really needs to be some rule changes or something. i wouldn't mind just getting rid of them completely.

When I see a nice building, or even one that I think took a lot of time and effort but isn't my favorite, then I vote. If I'm at a good event, then I will vote. If I see 6 vote booths within 3 meters of each other I don't vote, no matter how nice the building they are next to is.

I'm still working on a solution, I come up with them and then realize they don't solve the problem. I'm not entirely sure there is a way to solve it. :-/

Okay sorry, I misunderstood. I probably shouldnt post that late at night....

What if there was a group of people that all made one structure? Shouldn't they all deserve a voting booth there?

To echo Tracey Kato:
What about the new members? About all they have is a vote booth. It takes time to socialize and build some sort of alternate income base. As mentioned--as more competition arrives, there will be less money to be made from selling objects and scripts. If booths are gone, you can't sell a script or an object, how are you gonna get money? Stipend alone?
Hummmmm...
Sorry...questions and no answers here.

Hikaru, IMO yes they all should be able to put one "one" up per structure they had a hand in building.

But, the building needs to have peices in it of each member, not just "ok you all make then release so I can claim it and make it linked" type thing.

I am not pointing to any structure in particular, just a statement.

If you were to stop by My and Lyn's place we have joining properties with 2 builds. We help each other and there fore have our own voters up. But this doesnt exactly fit your question because we have 2 distinct builds. But we do help each other. If I help build something for her, I release it to her so she can link when needed. Also same for her, she makes stuff for me at times and releases to me.

On another side note:

I have things on her land as she at times has things on mine.

So the moral of the story goes.....If you have a definate impact on the quality of what is on a givin plot of land I think you are entitled to a voter.

Avondell,
Please re read my post. This wasnt a slam in any way towards any group but rather the opening of a discussion on vote booths. Are they working? Are they not working? Why? Can they be improved? How? Should they be deleted? Why?

The questions are coming up because people are grouping. That was evident back with Lindenburg. The issues is compounding with new and larger groups which is why I felt this issue should be discussed.

If you're a member (you being anyone) of a large group it seems logical to want to support and further the interests of your group. BUT is this what the goal of the booths is?

Memebers of groups please accept my apologies if you feel this was somehow a slam against you. That was not my intentions.

I'm seeing both sides of the issue here..

I agree with Tracey when she says they are a necessary evil, especially when one is just starting out and not as montarily endowed as others might be. After a while, I'm sure it's possible to accumulate more than enough cash than you probably need or could use, but those first couple of weeks (especially the VERY first, who DIDN'T go broke buying things they really didn't need?) are a little rough.

Certainly as Misnomer has said, events are an excellent way to make money.. holding or attending them. But I also agree with BBC & Nada (and Tracey again) that barter is a really great way to do things! I mean heck, it worked before money was invented right? But they didn't have to pay to make the wooden clubs or whatever they made like we do. <grins>

I'm probably going to go the "keep it until I really don't need it" route. It seems a viable enough way for me to make the Lindenbucks I need to create.. especially when my creations run away with me and end up being waaay too many prims.

Side note -- Avon & Nada, you MUST meet each other. You're both great people and I think you will get along well! ^.~

I dissagree with tracey. While I admit, my view might be skewed, being one of the "landed aristocracy" - I think that base 3500 is enough for a modest plot of land and a basic house. After a week, your stipend pays the few taxes back, and a lot of what you spent on your house, and you can do more. As you participate in events, you can get a chance to meet people, win prizes, and up your rating. Its slow, sure, and you can't do everything you want to right away, but it gives you time to learn. You might not ever be able to compete with others in building or scritping, but you can host an event if you need some cash, or work on a project that will derive income (has anyone looked into the RWP things lately? thats a really easy $5k per person, and you don't need to be a master builder, or know how to script). If you are patient, you will be able to expand until you can do everything you want to. Not only that, but by the time you can afford it, you will probably know the tools well enough to do it really well.
Tracey, I think you are a perfect example of this. You started off, new and poor, and I was one of the more established users at the time. When Vote Booths were introduced, I was getting more votes than you, and when I deleted mine, I get the feeling you were not making that much off of yours. You started off small, exploring the tools, and now you are handily beating me at net worth, you have a beautiful home, and what you did in Federal was amazingly cool. And I don't belive it wasn't the vote booths that let you do it, and I know you don't have much for sale (if anything). Maybe I'm a sucker for those Horatio Alger stories, but it is the way second life works. Sure, you can't do it all as a new user, but you can do a lot, certainly enough. And you don;t need to be a merchandising genius to do it either, or have 200 vote booths in high trafic areas.

or am I just telling you to eat cake?
BBC

I'm with BBC on this. and i'm poor

isn't money supposed to be earned, not given out? if your skills stink, and your not making money off of them, then what do you think you should do about that? hmmm. should i learn more and get better? nah! i'll set up a vote booth. yeah, that makes sense.

IMO there should be no easy way to earn a lot of money, aside from the minimum weekly stipend which i think is right, uh, on the money

i also agree about the bartering. its so much better to do something and get something valuable in return. (as opposed to money)