We Give To The Needy, Not The Greedy

Do those people look like they had/have billions and billions? Do you have 25,000 evacuees now living in your city's local convention center, as is the case in my home town, or close to 300K in cities like Houston?

I understand that something in the brain goes into spasm, and squahes some neurones which start firing off inappropriately. They are often in the visual field, but in the processing part where deductions of what is there have already been made. So if they are neurons for spotting and deducing "zigzag" - thats what you see, a perfect crisp zigzag that simply isn't there.

I assume the spasm travels a bit before it fades, so over 20 or 30 mins you are likely to see this highly instructive vision creep across your visual fiels, often starting small, then growing into an arc which slowly retreats to the periphery and then fades.
...
But their not helpful wnen forum posting, particularly when some of the non zigzag bits (which you can struggle to peer round, although of course they do move with your eye) are accompanied by misty swirly bits which sort of jumble the true image up.

Have one. You'd find it interesting. Eat more cheese !

Yes. And apparently there is an additional $13trillion or so outside the US fulfilling the role of "standard world currency". Ever been to Egypt and seen the dollar bills changing hands in every shop, and nothing to do with tourists ? But if it came to the push, they could simply repudiate all that if it ever tried to come home. They've done it before.

Edit : I checked through Eboni's sources on the $40trillion of total indebtedness to see what was included. This figure, for US currency held outside the US for purposes of private and public working capital, to be passed around and oil the wheels, (ie used for non-domestic circulation purposes) seems not to be included.

This figure is often forgotten, and hard to estimate, in that in would not usually be thought of as debt, and some of it may have left the US years ago.

Nevertheless, like all currency, it is a promise to pay from the US government, and if confidence in its solidity really began to wane, it would return home, and people would buy american exports with it, or even come and try to buy property etc. Over the long years americans have had real things for it, from the hands of foreigners. It is a debt - always overlooked, shoved under the table, but there it is. Best estimate I've seen - another $13 trillion.

I'm truly sorry, I last researched this two years ago - I've lost the links. Its difficult to estimate because much of it just vanished from internal circulation as it was used to buy things from foreigners informally, with no import/export record. It is primarily one way, because of the world confidence in the dollar as solid currency of choice. No-one in the US prefers to hold and use other peoples currencies inside the US at present.

I can't quite remember, I think the figure includes both physical banknotes, and positive bank balances held in $, whether as savings, or for working buffers in trade or banking. Yes, I think its both. Its the benefit of being the trusted standard, but it all has to be taken back if that ever stops.

I have even seen it suggested that this $13trillion hidden debt is the real reason for the Iraq war. This is the logic:

Just before the first (Kuwait) war the iraqis, despite their dictator, were doing well not only economically but socially. High employment, good education, great infrastructure - water, sewerage, free health care. I checked - this much is true. Their military were crap, as it turned out, at least compared to us.

Their oil was flowing - no problem. Then they decided to break with the entire world, and price their oil not in US$, but in (was it ?) euros. Everybody said it wouldn't work, but it worked fine.

A south american oil producer was about to follow suit ( Venezuela ?). There was a sudden danger this would become an avalanche, undermining the status of the $ and starting that $13trillion on the way home. It had to be stopped.

Hence the double dealing (we don't mind if you invade Kuwait ?) which lead to the destruction of Iraq. And then the punishment of Venezuala.

And now every oil producer is back on the dollar (and, incidentally, the euro looks pretty sick )

I have no idea whether there is the slightest shred of truth in this scenario, but it is what started me researching, and the forgotten $13trillion and the threat to the dollar did look about right.

Another interesting viewpoint, anyway. Not much chance we little people will ever be allowed to discover the real underlying motives for our governments actions. If they do bad, bad things which are genuinely in our essential interest, perhaps its better we don't know. It depends how seriously (on average) we take our morals.

This is all a bit confused, isn't it, for me. Just enjoy its entertainment value perhaps ?

Can't sort it out, Pretty migraine zigzags strting to obliterate the screen.Probably last about an hour. damn

If America asks for help then they must really need it. The BBC say that the problem is that America is "seemingly unable to draw on its wealth at short notice to immediately respond to the disaster". So what would you do? Don't give help as they will have the money eventually, even though it's needed now?

Every country in the Western World is in debt. The US has one of the lowest ratios compared to other countries. Money is fake. This is all paper and 0s and 1s. The real "money" is in military power. Those with the best military win, so currently, the US is still the richest nation, although China will probably wipe us all off the earth sooner or later.

The UK is apparently sending several million 24-hr emergency ration packs.

I saw a statement that this is usual international practice, as it is not sensible for one country to hold stock for all contingencies. On the assumption that not all countries will be hit by diasaster at once, they hold a sort of "stock in common", and send it where it is needed on a quid-pro-quo basis. Seems good to me.

The government might have money, but the people do not. Can you seriously expect the government to single-handedly help millions of its citizens? I think not. I think something like 5 million people were in the area, and most of those are currently experiencing problems. No government can support nearly 1/60th of its population without help. They're not omnipotent, no matter how much you think they are.

Is that (very roughly) right?

With the tsunami it was DAYS before the Red Cross even had personnel on the ground. And that was just one person, to surver the damage. They responded as quickly as they could.

Hmm I won't read Jsecure's post, I'll just rant about the individual people in this crisis...

Yes I see a lot of people with billions of dollars. Yes this is exactly what I said, why are we helping individual men and women when they each have a billion dollars. That's EXACTLY what I said.

Cutting to the chase, I wanted to start a fiscal debate as to why the US might need some millions off the UK, when they themselves have billions. I am aware there was a flood and lives were lost, but this was a thread for fiscal debate, and frankly apart from yours, all the posts have been intriguing, thought provoking and well thought out.

I suppose a perfect record for a thread is too much to ask for, but I'm just going to ignore your ranting, and try engage again in the fiscal debate this thread was created to inspire.

Mind you I'm a bit afraid to speak my mind at the moment cause I'm worried some blow hard will come on here and attack me for saying America's motives over the last 30 years were anything other than whiter than white.

Utter bollocks. I most certainly did read your first two posts before responding, and the cynical thread title -- let alone the condescending and judgmental content -- definitely warranted my so-called rant. You're telling me that the word "greedy," in and of itself, is not a pejorative term? At least be honest about your anti-US sentiments. And while you're at it, how about responding to the actual objections I laid out? My god, I certainly hope you don't represent the majority in your country.

No I mean the US government, America as a nation has billions of dollars. What I want to know is why does America need the UK public to dip into their purses when they have so much money flowing around their nation every year. I once saw the annual defense budget, I could have sworn that was some billions of dollars.
Why does a nation so rich suddenly need handouts from around the world?

America has billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars. Why do they ask the rest of the world for more money?

Utter bollocks. I most certainly did read your first two posts before responding, and the cynical thread title -- let alone the condescending and judgmental content -- definitely warranted my so-called rant. You're telling me that the word "greedy," in and of itself, is not a pejorative term? At least be honest about your anti-US sentiments. And while you're at it, how about responding to the actual objections I laid out? My god, I certainly hope you don't represent the majority in your country.

Please go ahead. We'll be glad to speak our minds as well.

I'm angered.

I'm angered because the U.S. is always providing aid to other countries, at, IMO, sometimes at the expense of it's own citizens and you have the brass b*lls to question the U.S. when it (gasp) asks for help.

And regardless of this, helping is what friends are SUPPOSED to do. Without question, without comment and without rancor.

You want to talk about blow hards? It's prime blow hard material when America haters show up and start in on the U.S. in a time of need. I guess there's a certain joy in kicking someone when they're down.

Can someone please explain to me, as I am confused.

America is asking the world for donations to help out it's city that has been flooded.

If there was one nation in the world, just one, rich enough to be able to take care of a city, I'd say it was America. It's vast resources dwarf those of the UK, Russia, or any other country in the European area, one of the most affluent areas in the world. It is the only world superpower.

So why when it has bills to pay, and cities to fix, does it ask us to foot the bill? I mean, I know developing nations don't have the spare cash, and then we naturally step in and help the needy... But come on, what's America's excuse?

It's like an episode of the Simpsons where Mr. Burns' son Larry is kidnapped, and on the phone Mr. Burns says "How much money do you want? $100, $200? I swear that's all I've got".

America has billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars. Why do they ask the rest of the world for more money?