when 102 people know a secret is it a secret?
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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09-01-2005 05:14
Yesterday, all 102 members of Live Help received an e-mail and a notecard in game and were told that the notecards were for Live Help "eyes only" but that we could answer questions based on the card but not cut words from the cards. I'll spare you all the suspense because the notecard is about changes that will be coming in version 1.7 and have already either been announced in these forums by the Lindens or are available to anyone who downloads the 1.7 test client. Why, why, why, the secrecy? I don't recall signing a non-disclosure agreement and we weren't even told not to discuss it, just not excerpt from it. Furthermore it is stupifyingly uninteresting. Was this intended to make Live Helpers feel like they got a magic decoder ring? If so, I feel like I'm being toyed with. Is it because these things haven't yet become policy yet and are subject to change? If so, then why bother handing out information only to have it revised later? Linden Lab communications with the proletariat are lousy as is. Why step it up a notch? It is exceedingly rare than anything is ever documented, why sequester what more or less constitutes release notes for 1.7. Why tell me to give someone my interpretation instead of hearing it from LL directly? For all the handwaving about "fostering community" this latest move is, put bluntly, absurd. I had written this yesterday but did not post until I read An interesting bit of hypocrisy. Yeah, I know I'll probably be kicked out of Live Help - or SL - for revealing "state secrets", but that just means one less person to handle front-line support for LL. And in case you are one of "the lucky, the few, the proud, the unpaid LH" who gets my slot, I hope you derive as much enjoyment for apologizing for LL bugs as I did (I also enjoyed meeting and helping a lot of nice people, so there are some merits).
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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09-01-2005 05:16
wow just wow WTF is going on this week?
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-01-2005 05:30
I'm waiting for the announcement of the TOS changes myself.
Last time they included the wording that SL was not a service provider or hosting company based on the amount of outages and individuals wanting refunds and calling for refunds in lost profits.
Then again, I'm waiting for the formal statement of what will happen to Trader Linden when the new buy/sell Linden program goes into effect and someone loses Linden's and how they will handle compensation.
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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09-01-2005 06:12
Excellent points Lynn!
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-01-2005 06:21
from another thread:
Robin Linden: We will only give you things that can be shared with anyone Philip Linden: And let us all live by that rule.
Discuss....
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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09-01-2005 06:22
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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09-01-2005 06:23
Thank you Malachi, this is my favorite forum post title in a long time.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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09-01-2005 06:44
From: someone I'm waiting for the announcement of the TOS changes myself.
Last time they included the wording that SL was not a service provider or hosting company based on the amount of outages and individuals wanting refunds and calling for refunds in lost profits.
Then again, I'm waiting for the formal statement of what will happen to Trader Linden when the new buy/sell Linden program goes into effect and someone loses Linden's and how they will handle compensation. Well, to the best of my recollection, not looking at the notecard or excepting from it as I'd been told not to, I'll try to answer your questions as that is part of my role as a Live Helper. If I recall correctly, they have stricken the clause of "no real value" with regard to in-game assets and they are thinking about compensation for unscheduled downtime but no details were provided. I don't think they addressed issues of compensation of failed Trader Linden transactions. However, my memory ain't so hot, so download the 1.7 preview if you want to see the new, presumably draft, ToS.
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-01-2005 07:07
So there is a spoon, they've declared it's monetary value; but they're not responsible for hosting that spoon or any losses incurred when said spoon is not available from your inventory and/or individual replacement costs of said purchased spoon.
I understand completely.
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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09-01-2005 07:10
From: Lynn Lippmann So there is a spoon, they've declared it's monetary value; but they're not responsible for hosting that spoon or any losses incurred when said spoon is not available from your inventory and/or individual replacement costs of said purchased spoon.
I understand completely. May I borrow your fork? I really want to poke someone.
_____________________
Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-01-2005 07:13
I'm sorry, but due to an asset server glitch, all forks are not available at this time. It is with extreme regret that I say... "Cris, fork off!"
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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09-01-2005 07:15
From: Lynn Lippmann I'm sorry, but due to an asset server glitch, all forks are not available at this time. It is with extreme regret that I say... "Cris, fork off!" You cut me deep, Lynn Lippmann.
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Cristiano ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. 
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-01-2005 07:30
Cris, you know damn well if I could give you a really good fork, I would.
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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09-01-2005 07:50
There are "secret societies"... some of which I guess are 102 or more. Time for spork hybrid magic action!
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Lynn Lippmann
Toe Jammer
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 793
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09-01-2005 08:00
Sorry Torley. I'm not that kind of girl.
I'll spoon -- I admit it!
I'll fork -- I admit it!
But spork?
Never!
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They give us new smilies  but what about the TOES? Toe the line Linden's! Toes for the Toeless!
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Jarod Godel
Utilitarian
Join date: 6 Nov 2003
Posts: 729
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09-01-2005 08:07
From: Catherine Cotton WTF is going on this week? I think Philip's desk just got moved closer to the door.
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"All designers in SL need to be aware of the fact that there are now quite simple methods of complete texture theft in SL that are impossible to stop..." - Cristiano MidnightAd aspera per intelligentem prohibitus.
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PetGirl Bergman
Fellow Creature:-)
Join date: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,414
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09-01-2005 08:14
From: Catherine Cotton wow just wow WTF is going on this week? Full Moon?
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-01-2005 08:19
That new TOS stuff - doing the monetary thing themselves - deciding we can only have five accounts per our lifetimes - keeping some stuff secret and some stuff not - the amorphous Developer Directory which defies description apparently - all this has me thinking the Lindens have bitten off more than 45 of them can chew. I wonder who are their legal and economic advisors? It has me worried. coco
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Euterpe Roo
The millionth monkey
Join date: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,395
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09-01-2005 08:20
From: Cristiano Midnight May I borrow your fork? I really want to poke someone. Lynn has standards. I don't. 
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"Of course, you'd also have to mention . . . furries, Sith Lords, cyberpunks, glowing balls of gaseous neon fumes, and walking foodstuffs" --Cory Edo “One man developed a romantic attachment to a tractor, even giving it a name and writing poetry in its honor." MSN "  next week: the .5m torus of "I ate a yummy sandwich and I'm sleepy now"  " Desmond Shang
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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Yes.
09-01-2005 08:23
Yes, when 102 people know a secret it is still a secret. It's just a well known secret.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to
http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne
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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.
Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan
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Euterpe Roo
The millionth monkey
Join date: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,395
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09-01-2005 08:27
From: Malachi Petunia Yeah, I know I'll probably be kicked out of Live Help - or SL - for revealing "state secrets", but that just means one less person to handle front-line support for LL. And in case you are one of "the lucky, the few, the proud, the unpaid LH" who gets my slot, I hope you derive as much enjoyment for apologizing for LL bugs as I did (I also enjoyed meeting and helping a lot of nice people, so there are some merits).
I hope that this never comes to pass. Mal, I think we agree on this. . . the silencing of a voice, especially one like yours, diminishes SL and endangers its future.
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"Of course, you'd also have to mention . . . furries, Sith Lords, cyberpunks, glowing balls of gaseous neon fumes, and walking foodstuffs" --Cory Edo “One man developed a romantic attachment to a tractor, even giving it a name and writing poetry in its honor." MSN "  next week: the .5m torus of "I ate a yummy sandwich and I'm sleepy now"  " Desmond Shang
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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09-01-2005 08:30
From: Malachi Petunia Yesterday, all 102 members of Live Help received an e-mail and a notecard in game .... While this sounds weird, I honestly just dont know whether to believe you after spending the half hour to read that other thread you referenced. There is nothing there at all, nothing. No hypocrisy, no conspircacy etc. ( I wont repeat my comments from that thread, read them if you wish). Seems like you are just stirring it up for no reason IMO.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-01-2005 08:34
Linden Memo:
Philip: Andrew I need a new chair.. this one is now 1ft higher than it was last night. Andrew: Sir, I think thats because you just crapped your pants.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-01-2005 08:34
From: Dianne Mechanique While this sounds weird, I honestly just dont know whether to believe you after spending the half hour to read that other thread you referenced.
There is nothing there at all, nothing. No hypocrisy, no conspircacy etc. ( I wont repeat my comments from that thread, read them if you wish).
Seems like you are just stirring it up for no reason IMO. Hell i'll throw caution to the wind. No reason not to believe him. It is true.
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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09-01-2005 08:40
From: Dianne Mechanique While this sounds weird, I honestly just dont know whether to believe you after spending the half hour to read that other thread you referenced... Thank you for amplifying my point, you have no reason to believe me and I've been told not to give you the evidence which would support it. However, there are 101 others you could ask for corroboration.
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