No more Refunds!

Awww.... Kim.

*sniff*

I don't even know what to say to that besides thank you.

And thanks to everyone for all the advice, I really do need a policy clearly stated. I just don't want to be in the rental business, that's all. /shrug As i said, I'm over it, and I'll try to be fair dealing with everyone who is fair dealing with me.

Oooo Wynx, she's right! I wouldn't have been given my wonderful Koala tiny by Cristiano if these were made no-transfer!!! And I definitely can't afford to buy them all myself!!!

I need to make a total reversal on my policy regarding no-transfer. Houses and whatnot, after all, aren't very "gifty," but the Tinies definitely are!

In such cases, I would say, yes, transfer, but yes, also, to Aimee's idea. (For exchanges only.)

coco

I'm surprised - though shouldn't be - that RL commercial practice is entering here. To the original poster, I see absolutely nothing wrong with making a special case for one opportunistic customer.

This is not unlike RL policies of the mega-corporations. The retailers have found that the cost of being generous to a customer making a return for no reason at all is well worth the customer goodwill. But if you are at the return counter on a weekly basis, you'll find it ever more tedious to obtain a refund. As someone noted above, the evening-wear merchants have sussed the scammers out and have put tags on saying "you can't wear this dress to that one party without taking off this highly visible tag and you can't return this if the tag is removed". I suspect that better retailers would probably take one return on an item with a "I tried this on, was ready to go and then I decided to wear something else". But not many more than one such return.

There were a lot of good suggestions above all of which seem to come down to "the customer is always right except for when they are opportunistic jerks". So you'll lose this one customer - isn't really a customer at all as he or she is using you as a lending library.

As a store owner, this happens to me quite often.

It is quite frustrating.

I try to make my customers happy, but because all my objects are copyable, I can never give cash refunds, because they can never prove they deleted the object.

As long as I'm driving my 5-series, I'm at peace with the world

I don't get people keeping things for long amounts of time then demanding a refund or exchange, but there is an entire plethora (is that the right word/spelling?) of other issues that could be dumped in the same category that I get all the time. Making a no refund policy is a very good way to handle it.

The latest issue I had to deal with was someone who bought my "Threshold" sculpture and wanting me to change the white on it to beige. Now on some statues, color change isn't such a big deal, but on this particular one, the white was white for a reason. It's art, not a sofa. I simply said I didn't want to change the color on that one to beige and I'd gladly give him a refund. Then he proceeded to telling me how rediculous that was, how nobody will want that sculpture with so much white on it, and then that I should build houses to match my models since I don't build models that look right in normal houses.

I ended up just telling him to stop messaging me... after I refunded him of course.

The wonderful thing about SL bussiness is... as long as you have your own real job outside of SL, this will always be on your terms inside SL. This is virtual and unnecessary, so you do not have to take shit. Bottom line. I do not and will not. Bad customers can stick it where the sun don't shine and keep on walking by, and it will never take any skin off my nose.

It's quite rare that I have to give refunds for my stuff, and even when I do it's usually due to customers not having enough prim allowance or something like that. It's moreso the modifications people want me to make just for them and such. On things that aren't exactly art... like my shoes and such, I don't care at all. I can get right pissed about certain changes people request on my sculptures though. As I said.. it's art, not a piece of furniture.

Hi Wynx,

Having sold avatars now for almost a year, I've always sold my avys no mod/no copy but yes transferrable--for me this works the best all around. I have not *yet* had the situation where a person is just simply tired of one avatar and wants to exchange it for another. I would probably do it once, maybe, but if the person got into the habit of thinking they could do so more often, I would not continue exchanging for them.

As far as "transfer or no transfer", I don't anticipate that I will ever make my avatars non-transferrable. Reason being that I have always been annoyed by any inworld items I've wanted to purchase that are NOT transferrable. That fact has even stopped me from purchasing many times. I want my avatars to be transferrable so people can buy them as gifts or give them away. Luckily, I've never had any problems with having them so.

Anyway, what are my refund policies? If a customer has a REASONABLE problem with an avatar, I will happily replace the avatar or refund their money AFTER they return to me every piece of the avatar in question. It's just good customer policy in my book, and ensures a happy, returning customer who will spread the word about my stuff!

Hope that helps!

HUGS! DarkDharma Daguerre

Find Little Tyke Babies as well as
over 70 other avatars at
DarkDharma Avatar Isle
Benten (220,159)

Well I disagree with you again. Using RL examples, many stores haven started keeping track of customers that make returns. If people make too many returns they are not allowed to make reuturns in the fuutre. Many stores that sell mall rat attire have adopted these tractics and it has been all over the news. Neimans doesn't punish everyone for a few people abusing the return policy, neither does Nordstrom, they punish the actual offenders, but only after they abuse the system. The simple solution is keep track of the offenders and stop conducting business with them, don't punish the commity at large. Customer Service for the most part in SL, with a few exceptions, is lackluster at best. This thread is just another example of how much the community in SL sucks at times, from those on the "wrong" and "right" side of the issue.

A no return policy is bad customer service, and a piss poor attitude all around and I refuse to do business with people with no return policy. I have been burned by so many crap products in SL, but I have never asked for a return on my money, it is just not worth it, but know in the future I know who to avoid purchasing from.

Many people make things either Copy/Notrans or Nocopy/Trans. It's rare to see anything with both enabled. I won't get into the mod flag this time. Heh.

Nocopy/Trans: This is the easiest, it's normal, buyer just gives the item back, and the seller gives a refund to the buyer.

Copy/Notrans: Customer X wants a refund. Problem is, since the item is no-transfer, they can't simply give the item back. And they can make multiple copies. I can't see any way to do this with trust, including the hypothetical method of Nocopy/Notrans below.

Copy/Trans: This simply is an impossibility. Nothing stops the user from making copies of the item(s) and there is no way to prove that the items have ben removed from the buyer when the refund is made. These are the items most open to resale abuse of course, so seller (and buyer down the road) beware. Anyone selling with permissions like these have essentially released public domain items, and had better expect that they're going to be handed out like business cards.

Nocopy/Notrans: You cannot set this flag anyways. Lawl! But if this were to exist, it would be a trust issue: the seller'd have them come to the seller's land, drop the item, and the seller deletse the item on their land, then pay the refund. Seems to be logical.

The point is, SL doesn't have the tools that would make a return policy work for two of the three copy/mod combinations.

I think we are back to the point that SL is a poor business enviroment.

I'm in the same predicament. Vehicles have to have copy/no-transfer permissions, so they're not returnable. Even if they were transferable, I think there would have to be a pretty good reason to give a refund. Example: accidentally bought two (there's a record of that), it didn't work (unlikely, but in SL anythings possible ), etc. If I ever give a refund, I just have to trust that they'll delete the item. I'm pretty sure there's a small percentage who will take the refund and keep the item ("whoo, free stuff!", but it's a small risk and the regular customers who need help deserve to be trusted that way.

Reasons I'm less likely to give a refund for: used it for a week and want to try a different one too (and another, and another), bought it but want the cash to go buy something else, bought it but got banned and want the money/item for their alt, used it for a month then comes back to me saying it "dood it sux give me my mony back", etc.

It's a judgement call each time. In the end, I'm mostly annoyed that an increasing number of SLers want to treat content makers like a Wal-Mart cashier.

I totally disagree with this.
If you are not going to take refunds, then you should
at least give the person the ability to sell it to someone
else at a yard sale and try to recoop some of their money.

And then if someone wants a new/different item from
you, then they can buy it from you outright.

Gabrielle

In another thread somewhere I have proposed the idea
that we should do away with being able to make a full
"copy" of an item. It would be better if SL was designed
to "make a link" to a single item.

This would solve the problem. When you buy one TinyAV,
you own ONE TinyAV. If you want to see it in multiple
folders, then rather than making a full blown copy, you
are allowed to "make a link" (like a windows shortcut)...
it looks and functions like a seperate item, but once you
remove the last "link" and then the single item itself, it
is removed from you inventory.

If you give/transfer the item to someone, then you give
the ONE (real) item, and then all links to it are also removed.

This way you can be assured when they give you (or anyone)
the item... there is only one (real) copy of that item floating
around -- if you only sold one.... while still giving the buyer
the ability to make it appear to be in several folders at once.

Gabrielle

I try to take it as it comes, I agree partially with Eboni and partially with Jim - I had someone buy a following pet a few months ago and a couple days later she said she wanted to return it because it was too complicated; had too many commands... I offered to strip out or rename the commands so there weren't so many on the list, she didn't want to do that, so I refunded her money. One important rule I've learned in multiple customer service jobs :

About 80-90% of the people out there will not IM you and say, "I want a refund", especially if it's not a very expensive item. You'll never hear from them, but they WILL tell 5 of their friends, "I didn't like this, I wasted my money on this," ect... Even tho it IS a hassle and takes up time, it's always best to gently ask "How can I make this better for your or fix what you didn't like about it?", and then pay attention to their feedback and give them their money back if they aren't happy.

I also have had a few obvious scams, or people IM'ing me saying "I noticed XXX bought this when you had it on sale yesterday, can I have a discount on something I bought last week", and other stuff I do NOT cater to. The most memorable recent one was when someone kept IM'ing me saying he could make money for me by selling my goods at a marked-up price. I told him a couple times that I would pay him rent for space and put vendors on his land if he wanted, but he was quite insistant that I should give him full-permission versions of all my vendors and trust him to supposedly sell things for a higher price, take that difference off the top, and then pay me what I normally charged on each sale.

I work with the Nice People rule.

If someone asks me politely and I see that the time it took from the day of purchase was not too long, I fix a refund - no questions asked.

If the guy is being a jackass, I simply ignore the request.

I agree with this completely. I have been stuck with more crap in SL, though I have asked for refunds. The most common thing I have asked for refunds on have been skins and clothing - I can't tell you how many items I've bought that looked like crap once you actually put them on. A couple of things:

1) It costs nothing to reproduce digital content. The copy of your object that someone buys from you costs you $0 to give to them. Yes, you had development costs, but those are spread across all of your sales, and generally are recouped pretty quickly. So when you charge 5k for that skin for a year, you are not still recouping your costs on the same texture over and over. Giving them their money back costs you their money, but that is it. I would rather have someone be satisfied with what they bought from me than to have their money just to have it.

2) Even if it is a no transfer item (which is the choice the creator made, not the purchaser), if they are unhappy with the item, they aren't going to use it. People are so concerned that someone is going to get away with using the item for free. So what? Refer to point # 1. The damage from being a stingy jerk about a refund is far worse to your business than someone getting away with a free item.

3) All customers of your business should not be punished for the actions of a few. If you have a problem customer, then deny them refunds. To deny everyone refunds is bad business, period.

When I see a no refund policy, I also make the decision to not do business with that creator, even if it is an item I want. Not because I would probably ever return it, but just because of the arrogance of that policy.

I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head. I completely understand the frustration that leads people to want to make a no refunds policy, ultimately it will likely do more harm to a business than good.

I think a reasonable policy for refunds would be to set a time limit. 30 days from date of purchase would be the max. Beyond that it's no longer in the account history and the orginal purchase can't be verified. I'd say if you want to restrict refunds set a policy that they must be requested within one week. That's enough time to allow for busy people who can't be online every day, and short enough that you won't get a lot of people who want their money back because they're bored with your product even though they were satisfied with it originally.

I think a blanket no refunds policy is a bad idea.

If I forgot to set the correct priorities on a walk for instance, and the arms flap like a bird while in use, then yes I will offer money back or a new one once I can fix it. Most the time I'll give them a refund and still just give them a new one once it is fixed.

In SL I feel a case by case basis is the best.

Edit= Hehe ironic thing is the creator of this thread had to IM me about a refund last night. We both found it funny,

I never said I wouldn't take refunds. Not sure what you mean, but I imagine refunds would be handled on a case-by-case basis, no matter what system one adopted.

coco

And another thing is, with houses, you WANT the person to first of all, make a copy for themselves, and second, to be able to modify the house - the wallpaper, rooms, whatever.

So you can't very well make it transfer, too.

I disagree with you Gabrielle you don't make something so others can give it away to sale, first off some here work very hard on what they make and do not want it sold by people who do NOT respect others hard work and want to suck off of there hard work. I have been working on some items I will be selling in sl and have put many hrs into it I have also made some free things to give away, but I will not be making my item trans that I have worked hrs on. Maybe you should take some time to make some prims and maybe even make something, and then you will see how much time goes into it. Just a thought.