Second Life Forums Archive - W. Mark "Deep Throat" Felt

Xtopherxaos Ixtab

D- in English

Join date: 7 Oct 2004

Posts: 884

06-10-2005 12:10

Stuart: Well, its a well known fact, Sunny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as "The Pentavret". Who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado known as "The Meadows".

Tony: So, who's in this "Pentavret"

Stuart: The Queen, the Vatican, the Yettis, the Rothschild, and Colonel Sanders before he went tet's up. Oooh I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face. "Oooh you're gonna buy my chicken, oooh".

Charlie: Dad? How can you hate the Colonel?

Stuart: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly, smartass.

Sorry...Friday afternoon came and my serious button has the weekend off

Red Mars

What?

Join date: 5 Feb 2004

Posts: 469

06-10-2005 12:36

From: Xtopherxaos Ixtab

I, [insert name here], do solemnly swear to support, uphold and
defend the Constitution of the United States of America against
all enemies, foreign and domestic, to obey the lawful orders and
directives of those appointed before and above me, and that I
enter into this office without any mental reservation whatsoever,
so help me GOD.

He never followed the directives of those above or before him. He broke his security clearence by divulging sensitive information about a sitting President (lawful activities or no, he is oath sworn to follow the directives (i.e. protocols) described by his position to follow the chain of command.

Education complete, gimme an apple.

Hmmm, it does say Lawful orders there, nothing about ignoring and covering up crimes.

_____________________

Xtopherxaos Ixtab

D- in English

Join date: 7 Oct 2004

Posts: 884

06-10-2005 12:36

Who ordered him to cover it up? The FBI didn't break into Watergate....

Lupo Clymer

The Lost Pagan

Join date: 13 Mar 2005

Posts: 778

06-10-2005 13:03

From: Xtopherxaos Ixtab

Who ordered him to cover it up? The FBI didn't break into Watergate....

What law did he brake?

_____________________

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Hate is not a family Value!
---------------------------------------
I am a pagan, I vote! Do you?
---------------------------------------

Arcadia Codesmith

Not a guest

Join date: 8 Dec 2004

Posts: 766

06-10-2005 13:07

From: Xtopherxaos Ixtab

Who ordered him to cover it up? The FBI didn't break into Watergate....

If you want to split hairs... was he under specific orders not to tell anybody that Nixon was a crook? I think not.

Even if he was, defending the Constitution against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC, takes precedence over loyalty to any individual official.

Vudu Suavage

Feral Twisted Torus

Join date: 27 Jul 2004

Posts: 402

06-11-2005 06:51

From: Xtopherxaos Ixtab

The whole recent Felt thing was to deflect the various news related problems of late...so they dug up DT (ok...in a show of hands, who cared who DT was a month ago?). Since that situation dealt with a President who resigned under the cloud of possible impeachment, it's natural to examine the other recent case of a President who faced impeachment.

That strikes me as rather unlikely, seeing as the parallels between Nixon and Bush (right down to certain identical staff members) are much stronger, the main difference being the absence of a whistle-blower (and the absence of investigative journalism, for that matter).

_____________________

Cthulhu, spiders, and other artfully crafted creatures are available at Gods & Monsters in Zoe, as well as Limbo and Taco.

Billy Grace

Land Market Facilitator

Join date: 8 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,307

06-11-2005 09:49

From: Kendra Bancroft

Really? What crime did Clinton commit?

Lying under oath to a grand just... or perhaps that is ok in your book.

_____________________

I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 -

Billy Grace

Land Market Facilitator

Join date: 8 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,307

06-11-2005 09:50

From: Colette Meiji

Quite a bit different.

Nixon knew about and covered up after the fact an attempt to bug the Democtratic National Commitee Offices.

Even more, it was BEFORE an election.

Had they been sucessful they would have been able to listen to some of the converstions of the opposition.

Who knows how much this would have affected the various candidates?

He then directed his people to cover it all up.

-------------
Clinton was being investigated for sexual harassment of Paula Jones.

He lied about an Affair with one of his Interns. Potentially Relevant in a harassment case.

He tried to tamper with Monica's testimony. And Cover up the fact of the affair. He then lied (well played games with the truth and definitions) under oath to keep this affair from coming to light, largly for political reasons.

Other then the fact they were both cover ups and both had broken laws there is an enormous difference in the Magnitude of the offenses as they pertain to a President's responsibilities.

An attempt to tamper with the opposition by a sitting president is tantamount to side stepping the Constitution.

As far as how serious the crimes were its more like the difference between Shoplifting (Clinton) and Armed Bank Robbery (Nixon).

Oh, I agree that Nixon's crime was more serious but come on... if you are saying that it's ok for the President of the United States to lie under oath then you are sadly mistaken my friend.

_____________________

I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 -

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

06-11-2005 23:00

From: Billy Grace

Oh, I agree that Nixon's crime was more serious but come on... if you are saying that it's ok for the President of the United States to lie under oath then you are sadly mistaken my friend.

not saying that

What Clinton should have done.

Is refused to testify at all about Monica Lewinsky.

The court had no jurisdiction over the President of the United States. They would have had to impeach him first and remove him.

But wait they were impeaching him becuase of purjury.

which he wouldnt have committed had he not let the court ask for a desposition and testimony.

see where he messed up?

Billy Grace

Land Market Facilitator

Join date: 8 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,307

06-12-2005 08:43

From: Colette Meiji

see where he messed up?

Yes, he messed up by LYING UNDER OATH and he rightfully paid a price for it.

_____________________

I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 -

Kendra Bancroft

Rhine Maiden

Join date: 17 Jun 2004

Posts: 5,813

06-12-2005 08:46

From: Billy Grace

Lying under oath to a grand just... or perhaps that is ok in your book.

No it's not okay with me. For the record Clinton wasn't found guilty of lying under oath.
George Bush sidesteps the whole nasty issue by refusing to be under oath.

Billy Grace

Land Market Facilitator

Join date: 8 Mar 2004

Posts: 2,307

06-12-2005 16:57

From: Kendra Bancroft

No it's not okay with me. For the record Clinton wasn't found guilty of lying under oath.
George Bush sidesteps the whole nasty issue by refusing to be under oath.

That's what Clinton SHOULD have done.

_____________________

I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me.
John Cleese, 1939 -

Lupo Clymer

The Lost Pagan

Join date: 13 Mar 2005

Posts: 778

06-13-2005 09:03

Clinton tried to side step in under the constitution Law stating a Sitting President may not be tried for a crime. The ruling at the time (I don’t remember if made by SC or Congress) was that because Clinton’s case was not criminal it was ok. Yes he was found guilty of lieing under Oath and lost his Bar lisions for a X amount of years for it.

Why are we talking about Clinton here? And no one wants to tell me what Law Felt committed.

_____________________

---------------------------------------
Hate is not a family Value!
---------------------------------------
I am a pagan, I vote! Do you?
---------------------------------------

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

06-13-2005 09:14

From: Colette Meiji

Felt -
evidently he may have been guilty of breaking
Title 18 USC §641 - which forbids theft of United States Property , its worded such that anything of Value includes information about the government. http://slate.msn.com/id/2120069/
.

Lupo - I did, I think you missed it

Its an interesting short essay on Slate about it.

Lupo Clymer

The Lost Pagan

Join date: 13 Mar 2005

Posts: 778

06-13-2005 09:36

From: Colette Meiji

Lupo - I did, I think you missed it

Its an interesting short essay on Slate about it.

OK I think I did miss it. Sorry. Still it is not that he IS but he could have been.

_____________________

---------------------------------------
Hate is not a family Value!
---------------------------------------
I am a pagan, I vote! Do you?
---------------------------------------

Vudu Suavage

Feral Twisted Torus

Join date: 27 Jul 2004

Posts: 402

06-13-2005 11:08

The issues of whether or not Felt broke any law is secondary to the well-established fact that 30+ Nixon staffers definitely did. The Watergate break-in was one small part of a pattern of secrecy, party-solidarity, and abuse of office so entrenched that it had become business-as-usual for all involved. Like our sitting president and his crew, many Nixonites surely believed that they were doing the right thing, that the world needed their guidance by any means necessary, and the world's resources should be in their hands, because they know what to do with them. Some Nixon staffers that did jail-time over Watergate are now doing the news-show rounds condemning Felt for not standing by his president.

We can only hope that Felt's example will help someone in the know on the current Dick Brigade to break ranks.

Frank Rich Column from NY Times

_____________________

Cthulhu, spiders, and other artfully crafted creatures are available at Gods & Monsters in Zoe, as well as Limbo and Taco.

W. Mark "Deep Throat" Felt
Xtopherxaos Ixtab D- in English Join date: 7 Oct 2004 Posts: 884	06-10-2005 12:10 Stuart: Well, its a well known fact, Sunny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as "The Pentavret". Who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado known as "The Meadows". Tony: So, who's in this "Pentavret" Stuart: The Queen, the Vatican, the Yettis, the Rothschild, and Colonel Sanders before he went tet's up. Oooh I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face. "Oooh you're gonna buy my chicken, oooh". Charlie: Dad? How can you hate the Colonel? Stuart: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes you crave it fortnightly, smartass. Sorry...Friday afternoon came and my serious button has the weekend off
Red Mars What? Join date: 5 Feb 2004 Posts: 469	06-10-2005 12:36 From: Xtopherxaos Ixtab I, [insert name here], do solemnly swear to support, uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to obey the lawful orders and directives of those appointed before and above me, and that I enter into this office without any mental reservation whatsoever, so help me GOD. He never followed the directives of those above or before him. He broke his security clearence by divulging sensitive information about a sitting President (lawful activities or no, he is oath sworn to follow the directives (i.e. protocols) described by his position to follow the chain of command. Education complete, gimme an apple. Hmmm, it does say Lawful orders there, nothing about ignoring and covering up crimes. _____________________
Xtopherxaos Ixtab D- in English Join date: 7 Oct 2004 Posts: 884	06-10-2005 12:36 Who ordered him to cover it up? The FBI didn't break into Watergate....
Lupo Clymer The Lost Pagan Join date: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 778	06-10-2005 13:03 From: Xtopherxaos Ixtab Who ordered him to cover it up? The FBI didn't break into Watergate.... What law did he brake? _____________________ --------------------------------------- Hate is not a family Value! --------------------------------------- I am a pagan, I vote! Do you? ---------------------------------------
Arcadia Codesmith Not a guest Join date: 8 Dec 2004 Posts: 766	06-10-2005 13:07 From: Xtopherxaos Ixtab Who ordered him to cover it up? The FBI didn't break into Watergate.... If you want to split hairs... was he under specific orders not to tell anybody that Nixon was a crook? I think not. Even if he was, defending the Constitution against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC, takes precedence over loyalty to any individual official.
Vudu Suavage Feral Twisted Torus Join date: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 402	06-11-2005 06:51 From: Xtopherxaos Ixtab The whole recent Felt thing was to deflect the various news related problems of late...so they dug up DT (ok...in a show of hands, who cared who DT was a month ago?). Since that situation dealt with a President who resigned under the cloud of possible impeachment, it's natural to examine the other recent case of a President who faced impeachment. That strikes me as rather unlikely, seeing as the parallels between Nixon and Bush (right down to certain identical staff members) are much stronger, the main difference being the absence of a whistle-blower (and the absence of investigative journalism, for that matter). _____________________ Cthulhu, spiders, and other artfully crafted creatures are available at Gods & Monsters in Zoe, as well as Limbo and Taco.
Billy Grace Land Market Facilitator Join date: 8 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,307	06-11-2005 09:49 From: Kendra Bancroft Really? What crime did Clinton commit? Lying under oath to a grand just... or perhaps that is ok in your book. _____________________ I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me. John Cleese, 1939 -
Billy Grace Land Market Facilitator Join date: 8 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,307	06-11-2005 09:50 From: Colette Meiji Quite a bit different. Nixon knew about and covered up after the fact an attempt to bug the Democtratic National Commitee Offices. Even more, it was BEFORE an election. Had they been sucessful they would have been able to listen to some of the converstions of the opposition. Who knows how much this would have affected the various candidates? He then directed his people to cover it all up. ------------- Clinton was being investigated for sexual harassment of Paula Jones. He lied about an Affair with one of his Interns. Potentially Relevant in a harassment case. He tried to tamper with Monica's testimony. And Cover up the fact of the affair. He then lied (well played games with the truth and definitions) under oath to keep this affair from coming to light, largly for political reasons. Other then the fact they were both cover ups and both had broken laws there is an enormous difference in the Magnitude of the offenses as they pertain to a President's responsibilities. An attempt to tamper with the opposition by a sitting president is tantamount to side stepping the Constitution. As far as how serious the crimes were its more like the difference between Shoplifting (Clinton) and Armed Bank Robbery (Nixon). Oh, I agree that Nixon's crime was more serious but come on... if you are saying that it's ok for the President of the United States to lie under oath then you are sadly mistaken my friend. _____________________ I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me. John Cleese, 1939 -
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	06-11-2005 23:00 From: Billy Grace Oh, I agree that Nixon's crime was more serious but come on... if you are saying that it's ok for the President of the United States to lie under oath then you are sadly mistaken my friend. not saying that What Clinton should have done. Is refused to testify at all about Monica Lewinsky. The court had no jurisdiction over the President of the United States. They would have had to impeach him first and remove him. But wait they were impeaching him becuase of purjury. which he wouldnt have committed had he not let the court ask for a desposition and testimony. see where he messed up?
Billy Grace Land Market Facilitator Join date: 8 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,307	06-12-2005 08:43 From: Colette Meiji see where he messed up? Yes, he messed up by LYING UNDER OATH and he rightfully paid a price for it. _____________________ I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me. John Cleese, 1939 -
Kendra Bancroft Rhine Maiden Join date: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 5,813	06-12-2005 08:46 From: Billy Grace Lying under oath to a grand just... or perhaps that is ok in your book. No it's not okay with me. For the record Clinton wasn't found guilty of lying under oath. George Bush sidesteps the whole nasty issue by refusing to be under oath.
Billy Grace Land Market Facilitator Join date: 8 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,307	06-12-2005 16:57 From: Kendra Bancroft No it's not okay with me. For the record Clinton wasn't found guilty of lying under oath. George Bush sidesteps the whole nasty issue by refusing to be under oath. That's what Clinton SHOULD have done. _____________________ I find it rather easy to portray a businessman. Being bland, rather cruel and incompetent comes naturally to me. John Cleese, 1939 -
Lupo Clymer The Lost Pagan Join date: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 778	06-13-2005 09:03 Clinton tried to side step in under the constitution Law stating a Sitting President may not be tried for a crime. The ruling at the time (I don’t remember if made by SC or Congress) was that because Clinton’s case was not criminal it was ok. Yes he was found guilty of lieing under Oath and lost his Bar lisions for a X amount of years for it. Why are we talking about Clinton here? And no one wants to tell me what Law Felt committed. _____________________ --------------------------------------- Hate is not a family Value! --------------------------------------- I am a pagan, I vote! Do you? ---------------------------------------
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	06-13-2005 09:14 From: Colette Meiji Felt - evidently he may have been guilty of breaking Title 18 USC §641 - which forbids theft of United States Property , its worded such that anything of Value includes information about the government. http://slate.msn.com/id/2120069/ . Lupo - I did, I think you missed it Its an interesting short essay on Slate about it.
Lupo Clymer The Lost Pagan Join date: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 778	06-13-2005 09:36 From: Colette Meiji Lupo - I did, I think you missed it Its an interesting short essay on Slate about it. OK I think I did miss it. Sorry. Still it is not that he IS but he could have been. _____________________ --------------------------------------- Hate is not a family Value! --------------------------------------- I am a pagan, I vote! Do you? ---------------------------------------
Vudu Suavage Feral Twisted Torus Join date: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 402	06-13-2005 11:08 The issues of whether or not Felt broke any law is secondary to the well-established fact that 30+ Nixon staffers definitely did. The Watergate break-in was one small part of a pattern of secrecy, party-solidarity, and abuse of office so entrenched that it had become business-as-usual for all involved. Like our sitting president and his crew, many Nixonites surely believed that they were doing the right thing, that the world needed their guidance by any means necessary, and the world's resources should be in their hands, because they know what to do with them. Some Nixon staffers that did jail-time over Watergate are now doing the news-show rounds condemning Felt for not standing by his president. We can only hope that Felt's example will help someone in the know on the current Dick Brigade to break ranks. Frank Rich Column from NY Times _____________________ Cthulhu, spiders, and other artfully crafted creatures are available at Gods & Monsters in Zoe, as well as Limbo and Taco.

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W. Mark "Deep Throat" Felt