Those Wacky Activist Judges

I think running everything would be a lot easier if it were a dictatorship. As long as I'm the dictator

hmmmm the dictator's consort ... I could get used to that idea. *blows a Kiss to Becky*

Diamonds hun .. lots of Diamonds.

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Realisticlly Liberals do do the same thing as Conservatives when in total power. They have since Jefferson.

OF course Liberals tend to institute things that cost too much money such as social programs to help the disadvantaged.

Quite a bit different then to institute things that deny freedom.

The mantra of "Defend the land of the Free" ;
while increasing discrimation against homosexuals and non Christains and taking away civil liberties.

Is patently hypocrytical.

Dictatorships breed revolution, whereas a corrupt bureaucracy can coast along on an undercurrent of grumbling discontent, interrupted only by the occasional protest march.

Ask Mr. Putin.

As a parent and a Stregone I am very upset with this. There is a major problem with our system that would let this ruling stand.
Here is a great article Related but not on this same topic:
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usma&c=words&id=9726

4 obligatory hypothetical stupid questions:

1. Anyone have a problem with Devil worshipers adopting children?

2. What if your religious beliefs put the child at a much higher risk of harm, should you be allowed to adopt a child anyway?

3. Where do you draw the line if any?

4. Do the adoption agencies have a responsability to toss out potential adopting parents with reason and if so what are some of those reasons?

Do not take my questions as me taking a side, I am just cureous about your opinions and playing devils advocate here.

Anyone reading the article can discern that this judgement will be overturned, especially since the federal government gives Wiccans protection under the 1st amendment. A state cannot give you fewer rights than what the federal government allows - meaning that if the federal courts given Wiccans protection under the 1st then so must all lesser courts.

A judge in San Frisco ruled that it was legal to all homosexual marriages and look how well that went over.

Briana Dawson

Problem is not that simple. Wicca is and is not seen as a recognized religion. The Military Chaplains Bible has Wicca in the there, then they Military will not let you put a Wiccan Symbol on your head stone if you are killed in the line of doughty. We are reluctantly thought of as ok, but only to a point.

Judge == Failed Lawyer

Well just to answer #1, because I don't really know the answer to the others... but Wicca isn't Devil worship. The Devil is a Christian creation, and Wicca is not a subset of Christianity.

And I just realized that that's not answering the question, but negating it... so i'll answer it and say that yes, some people do have a problem with that

The judge was probably aware that certain Wiccans make nudity and sex acts a part of their ritual. That isn't something you see at Temple Beth Shalom or even the Unitarian Church. While I don't have any problem with that I would if I thought that children might be present during that part of things.

Couldn't it also be said that shame about nudity and sex are also Christian/Abrahamic creations?

Not really, the sexual and nudity taboos were a big part of the Vesta, Isis and Mithra cults, which all had a huge influence on Christianity.

Then he could have said, "Don't fuck in front of your children."

However, that is not what he said. I have faith in the end that the system will take care of this as it does everything and I have no inclination to incite violence against any "activist judges."

If the parents had some weird religion that put a kid in danger, I wouldn't want them adopting kids- but the "put a kid in danger" part is the reason. The fact that said danger was the result of their religion (or tradition, or wacky theory on how to raise kids) is besides the point.

If I were a judge I'd be more much worried about Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses, considering the questionable medical choices they often make for their children.
My ex is a Jew and her parents are particularly observant. They just about killed me when I wouldn't allow a circumcision done when my son was born, but I was determined that he make that choice himself. It's really a filthy, barbaric proceedure. Of course at this point he's not about to let anyone whack off a couple square feet of skin.
Which in turn reminds me of the old joke:
One day the Rabbi asks the Mohel what he does with the foreskins after he removes them.
'Oh, I make them into wallets', the mohel responds.
'Wallets? That's amazing!'
'No the amazing part is that if you rub the wallet long enough it turns into a suitcase!'

While nudity is mentioned as part of an initiation ceremony in one of the seminal texts on Wicca, it's not common practice in America. The ecclectic tradition emphasises "do what you will", and as it turns out, "what we will" for most pagans includes keeping our clothes on.

There are individuals who explore the magick of sexuality, but that tends to be tied into the Eastern disciplines such as tantric yoga rather than "mainstream" Wicca, and almost always occurs within the boundries of a committed relationship. There are exceptions, but from a practical standpoint, the magick works best with somebody whom you know well and love deeply.

Frankly, I would be more concerned by the ritual cannibalism implied by the euchrist and the doctine of transubstantiation as practiced by Christians. That's kinda icky.

Did you even READ my post?

The Federal government already recognizes wicca. Therefore states have to.

A state cannot offer less liberty than the federal government allows.

It IS that simple.

Briana Dawson

Yep, indeed. In a supreme court decision from yesterday regarding the rights of religious practice of prison inmates they even recognize white supremacy as a religion (not that I'm in any way making a comparison to Wicca!!), so Wicca is indeed recognized by the government as a valid form of religious practice. It's downright mainstream comparatively speaking.

Becuase of First Ammendment Guarantees , someone's religeon is irrelevant FOR ANY REASON. Whether its "Accepted" or not. When the First ammendment was written and approved there was no list of what was allowed and wasnt. It doesnt state 'your free to have any religeon on this list, please use #2 pencil and mark clearly'

If there are problems with things people do in religeons ... well thats what police, and judges are for. To go after criminals.

If for example the parents didnt feed their child becuase they were of the belief that they could live off sunlight - then the court should step in and charge the parents with neglect and abuse and take the kids.

"I don't think witchcraft is a religion. I would hope the military officials would take a second look at the decision they made." G.W. Bush (R), as Governor of Texas. Interviewed on ABC's Good Morning America, 1999-JUN-24. He disapproved of Wiccan soldiers being given the same religious rights as others in the military.

Heh, like father like son. Here's a snippet from an interview with Bush Sr. while he was campaigning for the presidency...



Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Isnt a surprise that GW is intollerant of non Judeo-Christain beliefs.


I think whether something is a religeon is meaningless. By having freedom of Religeon we also have freedom from religeon.

It shouldnt matter if your Roman catholic or Believe in little green men from the inside of the sun. OR beleive in nothing at all. Or anything and everything in between.

Last I checked the only way to prove whether a religeon is the "only Way" is a one way ride.

And the mail service once you get there is terrible

Well, I don't think pigheaded idiocy is a leadership qualification, but I don't shoot my mouth off about it on national TV.

What a putz.