My Statement on the MJW Thing

People on the whole would be more united if they weren't so busy reminding everyone of their differences (insisting theirs are better, more 'proper', etc, etc, etc...).

As for the latest volume in the drama.... sorry, at this point, all I can manage is.... (yawn).

Very severe multiple fractures it seems, but apparently still breathing.

Most of us moved to one new group called "Concerned Residents" where we continue our work. We believe that the officers should be representative of all members of our group and elected by them

Residents of what, Second Life or AnsheLand?

Clearly I have supported you and MJW from the moment I knew about it based on the notecard, but I have have a problem with you bussing people in to fix "democratic votes" and super secret ninja power groups

these were alleged in your presence and you said nothing to dispute their accuracy

you lost my faith, Anshe, maybe you can earn it back but a cursory review of your members shows that at least some are all vested in YOUR interest as residents, and I would guess most have no idea what precceeded the group or the super secret ninja objective

I appreciate what you started but now I am more fearful that you have
1) a hidden agenda
2) an addiction to "power"

niether reason is good enough for me to join, nor can I endorse, defend, or support

And let it be noted I have even given you props today for the fruits of your labor, but I am 100% unconvinced there isn't a lot of rotten fruit on the tree

I dunno... amusing that even an officer (ex-officer) of the MJW group describes it in the subject line as "Thing."

About sums up all the comments to me!

See sig Free men don't stick together, they pull in every direction !


This particular sentence is so comical in light of my previous appointing you as a Knight of the Order of the Citizens Committee for Concerned Citizens

I agree entirely with Jeffrey Gomez, and I'd like to add that LL must NEVER endorse lobby groups in any form, way or shape.

That's good and something I think most people appreciate. However, after all that mud-slinging, there are still some serious questions and concerns that have gone without a reponse, as Mulch mentioned.

I honestly think that, and this is strictly my opinion, due to your reputation, any group you head up that is to express concerns and/or suggestions regarding SL to LL is going to be suspect and probably doomed to fail. A good captain knows when it is appropriate to stand aside and let someone else steer the ship.

Best of luck.

There are some good ideas being gererated, but the Super Secret Group Troubles of aught five is saddening (and not to mention, a trifle juvenile).

cocoa,
I don't have much desire to be part of a land-or-web-software business lobby, but I don't think that is your, or katykiwi's, or many others' intentions -- I think you have nobler things in mind which is why aimee appears to be making an effort to participate. I can't get in world for another week to join the group or check any of this out, but I would be interested in seeing your new proposals and standards.

any chance you can PM them to me?

if you don't have time I understand.

official endorsement? yes i would agree with you there. LL can acknowledge the existence of lobby groups, but should not endorse or promote any particular ones.

of course, we've had lobbying since the birth of LL and will always have it. Even a simple feature request is a lobby of sorts. It is nice when lobbying is at least done in the light of day.

If you look at it, it was me who in the first place suggested and promoted that there is democratic voting at all. And it was one certain officer who felt threatened by this and paniked about the prospect of not being elected who came up with this rubbish.

At all times the group was free sign up. Our new group is still free sign up. I am not part of any ninja power group.

The real issue is one powerhungry madman clinging to his officer post at all cost. Whatever Prokofy critisizes about others is pretty ridiculous after he has shown how anti--democratic and obsessed with power he is himself. He litterally hijacked our group to spread his own platform in our name. This has simply become unbearable for us, which is why most of us voted with our feet and moved on.

What is going on here is like Saddam Hussein accusing others of "fixing" the democratic vote in Iraq

Object lesson and moral of the story all in one:

You lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

Jesrad is totally correct. That is entirely the nature of the beast of freedom. That glorious beast!

Nobody is perfect. Not everybody gets along, either. People make mistakes! Even me! (I think.)

Here's my personal take on these two leaders, for what it's worth (and cause I want to say it!). Both are sincere in wanting what they see as good for SL and good for all of us. They are just like all of us, all wrapped up in SL, with all their own wants and desires not only for themselves, but for SL and everyone in it. Naturally, their self-interests are in there, too, but then, all of us always have our self-interests in there. For me, personally, I like and respect Anshe a great deal, and I ADORE Prok, idiosyncracies and all, and y'all know that.

Now we have two groups. I am still in the MJW, and still an officer in it. Anshe invited me into the Concerned Citizens group, and so I am in that one, too. Both these groups are standing for ideas I generally agree with and want to promote, at least at this point. If I get ticked off for some reason, or if the group ideas diverge too much from my own, well, then, I'll quit.

Same goes for everybody else. You can work with one, work with neither, start your own group, or ignore all of it. Both groups are completely open to everyone (who isn't just out to grief them). These sorts of groups are not a bad thing to have in a society. They are a good and necessary thing, especially in a large society, in order that all citizens stand a greater chance to be heard, and have an effective way of working towards those changes they would like to see.

coco

I will PM to you any new proposals and standards I get or have a hand in making from either of these groups, if that gets accomplished within the next week.

coco

I agree, though I wouldn't lay all the blame for the general worthlessness of the voting system at the Linden's feet. I think a big part of the reason it isn't working well is the same reason that people feel compelled to form these "my message is too important for the hotline and too complicated for the vote system" groups like the MJW. The voting system isn't giving them their pat on the head that says "There there. I hear you," so people want to ritualize the opinion giving process, as if making it more convoluted will somehow cause a quantuam shift in reading comprehension levels at LL.

[sarcasm]Here's a thought... maybe we could head a lot of this kind of thing off at the pass by adding something to the login screen... Have the login process be like the beginning of the old Romper Room show, where the host pretends to look through the mirror and throws out a bunch of random names... "I see Billie, and Susie, and Misha, and Lauren..." Have it be Philip with the magic mirror and add a little "Not only do I see you, but I hear you and your thoughts are important to me!" bit to the end... problem solved. Then LL can go back to listening (and hoping we'll throw stuff out there they didn't think of that's already well fleshed out), deciding what they feel is best for us as a whole (weighed against their bottom line), and going on about their business.... which is the way things are going to work no matter what window dressing gets thrown on it. You can dress it in a clown outfit and ride it around on the back of a pony and it won't change the reality of the way things actually work... the only way they can realistically work given LL's size.[/sarcasm]

Here's a thought, Chip. Why don't you just let others be what they are and do what they will.

coco

I love that idea Chip... but with one small modification:

Because my opinions aren't welcome? That's an excellent demonstration of democracy in action!

No, and my comment was actually more general than just to you. Seems to be a number of people who, while they don't want to join an organization, also don't see any point in that organization existing, and would rather it didn't. Why not just let people do their thing?

coco

Then you probably shouldn't have started the comment by saying "Here's a thought, Chip..." That has a way of directing a comment at Chip - ya know?

Same thought that entered my mind upon reading that.

Democracy! As long as you shut up and agree with my idea of it!

Coco, you don't speak for everyone, and your bizarre threats about how "the times they are a' changin" have no bearing here. Many of us deal with the here and now, not wishful thinking about how we would like it to be.

So kindly practice what you preach. The longer you sit around and stew, and try to field all responses you don't like, whether or not they are directed at you, the longer this crap will go on. I guarantee it.

This means, kindly stop labeling everything you see that you don't agree with as a "personal attack", and let people have their own opinions, that which you lobby for, apparently only for a few folks that you have handpicked ( I guess because you see them as "victims".)

That description fits me pretty well The answer to your question is that these groups are being formed to represent abstracts like justice, equality, fairness, the common good, and so on, and those are all subjects I'm prefectly able to form my own opinions about and express, and I have no wish to jump through any resident created hoops in order to do it. The more these kind of efforts swallow up people's time the less they'll have to contribute to the already existing (and more effective) communication channels we already have. Not only that but we'll have divided into competing camps. The net effect will be a reduction in the amount of truly open debate and effective discourse... the opposite of the intended purpose. Aside from all of that, attending comittee meetings isn't really my idea of a good time.

Well I don't know about all that, but I can definitely attest that it swallows up my time so that I have less to contriubute to the already existing pool of items being created! Hopefully, I'll be able to get back to doing more of that now, since building is what I enjoy most.

coco

P.S. After reading your post again, I don't think there will be any less debate and effective discourse, but more, as we have seen happen this past week. I also don't particularly enjoy debate for debate's sake, about concepts such as justice, etc., and think the groups have very specific, concrete changes they would like to see in order for abstract concepts like justice to actually be implemented in specific ways that benefit everyone. I think I understand that whole long sentence I just wrote, lol. I think I'll go do some scrapbooking now, lol.

Denying the reality, he is a banned griever, while accusing everyone of just that.

Some justice. It's sickening.

I agree so strongly with this point. There are so many bright talented eloquent members posting here on the forums who really can make their point without a personal insult. And, you are right Nolan its equally important to distinguish opinion from insult. Its not always easy.