Copycats in the SL Fashion Business

Sometime ago I read about some accusations of fashions designers copying other designers clothings. I looked at it and ... yes ... there were similarities. Happens. But what I saw today on SL Exchange, a Floral Summer Dress gave me a Deja Vu.

Hadn't I bought exactly that dress last week at Little Rebel?

Yes, I did - but it was not Jonquille who put the Floral Summer Dress up for sale on SLExchange ...

Please, hopeful newcomers to the fashion business in SL: A lot of the fashion SL has to offer is boring enough with all those tube tops, very, very lowrider pants, ill fitting skirts, 'daring' minidresses etc. (glorious exceptions exist). The last thing we need are designers who are copying other designers clothing pixel by pixel!

I won't comment on this incident, but...



It seems like a lot of designers photo source their items from the same websites. Bebe.com being a very popular one. If people aren't original to begin with, then its very possible someone else will make the same thing.


Then you can be like me and design clothes no one wants, those are always safe from copy

One possibility is that the outfit was originally photosourced from the web by both designers. That is to say, one designer didn't copy the other, rather both found the same design on the web and brought it into the game (possibly without knowing the other designer had done the same). It's one of the risks of photosourcing but typically designers don't hate each other when it happens.

On the other hand if someone stole an original texture from another designer, or has managed to obtain someone's clothing with full mods (through a bug or exploit) and is reselling it...then it's time to call the Lindens.

Am I the only person who thinks that "photosourced" works are derivative works of the original - and hence copyright infringement?

If as artists we don't respect other people's copyrights, how can we expect anyone to respect ours?

Yeah, what Eboni said about photosourcing is correct.You know what's funny about this, Kim, is that the items you just mentioned (tube tops, lowrider jeans, as well as anything leather, shiny, bling, short, "sexy," etc.) are what sell like hotcakes in SL. I know, I was in the SL rag trade for about a year, and my best-selling items were always the leather and sexy things. If it's what sells, it's what people will make. *shrug*

I can't draw but I can trace!

What Robert said. Copyright infringement issues will eventually come to town.

Eboni, I don't know much about what you designed earlier , but I surely love at least one item. The 'Coco' is simply adorable But you are probably right, that there is not a big market for fashion like this. Sad enough.

Beryl, of course this is what sells best. Don't doubt it for a minute. And I have some in my inventory too. I just don't get overly excited when something like this comes on the market with a slightly different color combination or just a little bit less cloth over the skin

But that was not my issue (this time ). I only find it sad and not a big proof of creativity, when two designers copy from one another or from the same source. Sighs.

Copyright law actually protects artists' rights to use other works as direct inspiration for their own provided the derivative work is "substantially different." I would avoid pushing it but using an extant digital photo to fill a texture template may just qualify as being substantially different. Usually things need to be rearranged, stretched, shaded, etc. after all -- and the end result is in an entirely different medium to boot.

Also if I'm not mistaken (I'd need to re-read the ToS to be sure and I'm not going to do that right now), uploaded content becomes the intellectual property of Linden Labs. This is how it works for every other game I've seen user content enabled in. This just adds to the greyness of it all...

...not to suggest that what may be technically legal is also ethical, mind you. It isn't. Invoking copyright law just doesn't help clear up the matter though, not from a technical standpoint.

<<echoed.

I initially Photosourced when learning the templates. Maybe 2 or 3 Items that are no longer in my stock.

Since then all the stuff I create is totaly either hand painted or taking flat cloth material pictures and modifying through paint manipulation into a shirt/pants ect.

But No more "Photosourcing" of full garments, including Photoshopping the hell out of a Photosourced Item either...well mainly cause I have PSP not Photoshop.

Shadow.

To quote the TOS:

"Linden acknowledges and agrees that, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, including without limitation the limited licenses granted by you to Linden herein, you will retain any and all applicable copyright and/or other intellectual property rights with respect to any Content you create using the Service."

So to clarify, users do retain IP rights on their content.

McW

I ran acorss something the other day. It seemed to be a direct ripoff of a Pixel Dolls creation. The creators first name was even Nephiliane and the creation group was <something>Dolls, (I can't remember the exact name). I'm not sure if this is Neph's alt, and a discount branch, or if someone is copying her as closely as possible, in the hopes that people will mistake her goods for theirs.

Was strange, but the dress was very nice.

Happily corrected, thanks. Pretty wise of LL as it limits their liability. There is still a lot of grey in this topic though

Photosourcing, yep, chances are someone else will find something someone else has found, it happens, quite a lot actually~

Not doggin' photosourcing of course, I think it's fine if you change it up a bit, and if you MUST make an exact replica, be sure yours is the very best quality so yours will be more sought after :)

Another option of course is original designs and textures :)

both can turn out very nice given effort.

I perefer quality over everything else. I dont mind paying a higher cost for quality items, photosoured or hand painted.

As far as I know clothing designs can't be copyrighted. Only textile prints and patterns can be. This is why every clothing company known to man has their own khakis, capris, and every other common cut of clothing. The photos themselves definitely are under copyright, but it would be up to a judge to figure out if SL clothes constitute a substantial enough change that they'd be considered derivative and not copyright violations. I suppose if a clothing company got interested in marketing their wares in SL and saw their designs already here it could result in a few cease and desist letters (whether or not they were within their rights to send them). It's not something I lose any sleep over.

"The 'Coco' is simply adorable"

Why, thank you, I . . . oh, you're talking about a dress! lol

Yes, this whole ethical issue sometimes comes close to paralyzing me and keeping me from doing ANYTHING in this game. I'm not talking about copying another player's work, but stealing stuff from the web (apparently called "photosourcing".

Take textures:

"These are free to copy for personal use, as long as you don't use them for profit."

I want to use one of those textures on an item I will sell in the game. But since I could exchange my Lindens for rl money, then maybe I shouldn't?

Here's how I resolve this for myself:

I am not going to now and never will exchange any of the Lindens I make for rl money. To me, this is a game I play for pleasure, not monetary profit. Therefore that means I am using them for personal use. Same as if I were scanning one of them for a background in my scrapbook. (This game actually is a whole lot like scrapbooking to me, lol.)


Although using an exact copy of an extant product in a recognizable way, such as a dress design, probably is stretching this argument a little, I agree with this argument overall. (And will note, also, that knock-offs are completely expected and even accepted as a compliment in the fashion industry.)

But as Meilan said, we are limited by the medium. We can't really SEW our dresses, or BUILD our houses, in which case, the raw materials are readily available. Here, we are limited (especially people like me), to what programs we have. In fact, that is pretty much the challenge and the biggest hurdle.

To make my own textures, I would first have to spend ages learning how, and buying the right program. But making textures is not my idea of fun or my primary interest in this game, which is creating objects and designing houses. I don't want to have to get a master's degree in texture creation just to build some pixel houses in an online game

In the real world, a dress company makes a deal with a fabric company, but that is impracticable here. It would be almost like expecting me to consult all the original designers personally whenever I use a design in one of my scrapbooks.

Besides - this isn't the real world. It's a game. Whether or not people do translate their virtual items into rl money, it still functions primarily as a game for most players. What we do in it is entirely for our own personal pleasure with each other, and not to make a profit in the marketplace using someone else's creative labor. That is my reasoning for myself, and I think it applies to most people in the game.

Now, it gets pretty iffy when it comes to the intellectual property of any well-known, recognizable and immensely wealthy corporation, such as Mickey Mouse. Still, I haven't noticed Disney going after any TSO or SL players. And I do think a legal case could be very easily made (warnings against using such things in any TOS notwithstanding) that it is for personal pleasure and not profit.

Still, I wouldn't go so far as to create an entire Disney universe in a game, filled with exact replicas of this and that Disney thing, down to the shops filled with stuffed Mickeys and Minnies. (Although you could easily get away with that if it were somehow clearly a parody.)

And I probably wouldn't copy an entire dress from anywhere (if I were into dressmaking), because it just wouldn't be original enough to make me proud.

And if I were trading game profits for rl money, I would be a lot more cautious, just in case.

coco

Well this is from the UK not the US but may be of interest:

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/business/4457363.stm

"UK High Street fashion chain Monsoon has taken legal action against rival Primark, alleging the retailer has copied its clothes.

Monsoon said Primark will take six items, including skirts, swimwear, girl's trousers, and children's socks and scarves, off shelves in its stores.

Monsoon, however, said it had issued High Court proceedings, claiming the alleged copying was "unacceptable".

It is seeking damages and a commitment that Primark would not copy again. "...

"Primark paid £23,000 to Monsoon in May after admitting that it had copied the firm's Brittany top for girls and a butterfly dress."

--------
http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_room/room/view_article.asp?name=../articles/Monsoon%20sues%20Primark%20over%20design%20infringements.htm

Says it is "design rights".

Interesting. I wonder what the outcome would have been if they'd gone to court instead of settling. 90% of the real world clothing industry would collapse if large corporations start to get anal retentive this way. "We hold the copyright on pants with two legs! We demand you stop making pants with two legs or we'll sue!"

EXACTLY! What is more than boring - its disgusting - is the very poor workmanship that you see in a lot of the 'me-too' designs. No attempt is made to create something that looks like 'clothes' with seams, buttons, folds, zippers etc. Instead a lot of these 'clothes' look like they are painted on the AV; which can be a very aestetic art form but i would not want to run around like this all day.

I think photosourcing is fine - copyright issues not taken into account - if the resulting clothes are high quality - not paint jobs. I have some fine clothes by Jonquille and some spectacular vintage dresses by Versu Richelieu which look like they have been photosourced and I just love them. I prefer a high quality copy of a classy design from someone in RL who actually CAN create fashion than a poorly executed 'original design' from some wannebe fashionista who can work with photoshop but has no understanding of fashion design

And yes I have to admit: Its quite possible, that the 1:1 copy I observed could have been the result of photosourcing from the same source. I simply did not take that possibility into account. Sighs.

The copyright issues are not big just now - because SL is such a small market. But the will be in the near future. Its not only probable it is sure that we will observe some of the big consumer brands (and fashion brands) to come inside SL and other virtual worlds and sell their wares. These will obviously be copies of their RL designs. High quality copies I hope
And when that happens they will try to hunt for copy cats.

Will be interesting to see, how this fight comes along with that great emphasis on privacy which still prevails in SL ...

Yep, just walk through a department store on any given day - they have a lot of clothing that is virtually identical to that of many name brands. I am told some even come from the same factories and/or textile mills. Levi Strauss could sue nearly every single clothier if we lived in an anal atmosphere like Chip has pointed out.

Much of the real world industries work like this:

1) Mass-manufacture a shitload of crap
2) Sort it by quality into a bunch of tiers
3) Sell each tier at a different price, under a different model name or even brand

All of those cheap "Yoko" and "Sankyo" televisions have Sony and Sanyo components, except they have those components that did not pass quality control.
Often a 1.1 GHz CPU is a 1.3 GHz CPU that failed to work at that speed, but works fine if run slower. Your 64MB graphics card is probably a 128MB graphics card with half the memory broken...
Don't even get me started on the food industry. My girlfriend is a food engineer... and some of the cheap crap you find for sale is... well... trash. As in garbage. For real.
Take a bunch of fish heads, tails and bones, grind it into a mush, add a bunch of artificial crap, and voila, yummy fish spread.
Some of the research papers she has to study for her MSc thesis start by basically saying that trash still contains proteins, therefore has nutritional value, and then elaborate on the various methods you can use to disguise trash as food.

Any derivative is a copyright infringment.

In fact, you can change 100% and still be copyright infringement.

You have to start over.

Chip is correct, clothing designs themselves cannot be copyrighted (let me clarify: real world designs; textures used in SL designs are different). The illustrations created for concept, photographics taken of them, and textile patterns used within them can and do fall under copyright.

If you've created clothing using photos found on the Web, you can't really cry foul when you see another copy in SL since you've already violated a company or photographer's copyright of that image. As far derivative works go, your work must be substantially different -- with digital works, usually this means unrecognizable from the original. Also, using a photo in world would not be considered fair use (for clothing at least).

Like ShadowWeaver some of my first pieces of clothing in world were derived from copyrighted material, it really was a good way to get familiar with the templates, but since then everything I've worked on has been handmade by me. I know illegal copies of some of my material is floating around SL (someone alerted me to something a couple weeks ago, thank you whoever it was -- i can't remember your name) and I am prepared to take action if I find infringement of my textures.

(Copyright discussions comes up every couple months, search the forums for tons of previous posts on the subject)

Why do bicycles from different companies look virtually identical except for paint jobs?

Why do many, many companies sell "carpenters" jeans?

Jean jackets?

Why do snow skis all have the same shape?

Bell System knock off telephones in the 1980s?

Etc., etc.

You're going to have to offer more than just "Any derivative is a copyright infringment" to support your claim.