Is the United States ready for a Disaster?

Personally i think this is something that will happen in a third world country!

I have been to third world countries and its not even this bad.

I am saying because im witnessing what is going on with my own eyes.

- gas prices going very high
- gas lines take about 1-2 hour to get $20 worth of gas
- people fustraited with heat and breaking fights
- no police control, looting, and rape and deaths
- meals ready 2 eat and water and ice taking forever to arrive to ppl who are really in need.
- president on vacation while he knows that the city of new orleans will have alot of floods.
- help taking up to 4 days and ppl in rooftops waving for help
- looting going around, military taking about 2-3 days to arrive
- mass flooding in main cities, an issue they should have been taking care of.. a long time ago to avoid a big disaster and deaths

I know that this is not president Bush's fault.. but United States is just not prepaired for a disaster.

People are in heavy panic over gas, ppl shooting over food and water and stealing stuff.

Im not a theif, i was not raised like this, but if i was stranded with no food or water in a place where they are not prepaired, where they have no control and im there for 4 days and help has not yet arrived, my stomach is without food or water, i would break into those stores also to grab food.

people that is not in these situation are like "OMG they are so bad and they are unfair"
I would like to see those people there with water and no food, to see if they would not break into things.

The stuff will go to the trash anywayz. i know that is no excuse but when the country is not quick enough to respond into an emergency situation, then it leaves ppl no other option.


I have been here for about 4 days with no power, and i have seen americans panic and stressed out, cussing and very mad.. they become very racist.

In my opinion, the United States is just not ready for a disaster.

Wow! That's a really good question. I think in light of this, I have to answer "no". If this was a terrorist attack I'm not sure if things would be all that different, other than the fact that we'd have "tighter security" all over the place.

just take Gas and Power from ppl, they get nasty.. trust me!

This WASN'T a terrorist attack? Give it a few days, I'm sure we'll find someone to blame.

No one any where in the world is ready for a disaster....thats why they are called disasters.

Oh, you. Why even ask that question? I could ask what you are trying to say because you don't say "anywhere" or "that's," but it's obvious what you meant.

Of course nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, but you can always be prepared with a gameplan to tackle it. Think of it like she's asking if the U.S. has sufficient safety devices on the glorious automobile of America so that the driver and passengers have a good chance of walking away in the event of a disaster.

Talen is right. The U.S. has a really good disaster response system in place relative to much of the world. We were caught off guard with that Terrorism thing, but we have been fighting natural disasters forever. There is only so much you can prepare for.

Will we be ready for the big one, if California falls into the ocean? Can you be ready for that?

Comparing the U.S. to the success of the rest of the world isn't a good measure of domestic success since the rest of the world is inferior. We should hold ourselves to higher standards, right? Otherwise we'll end up as #2 or worse, France.

Ooops... that's what I get for listening to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that trickster.

Like many Americans, I have been following the aftermath of Katrina in the media. Its unavoidable. Catagory 5 hurricanes don't happen every day. We've all seen the images of flooded neighborhoods, refugees on the move, and looters. We get a steady stream of soundbites from those who have lost homes and loved ones. With every passing hour, it just seems to get worse.

It seems that many of the soundbites I hear are from people who compare recent events to last year's Indian Ocean quake and the resulting tsunami. This is very telling. We have had bad storms before here in the United States, but they tend to be few and far between. The US, unlike many third world countries, is also better prepared to handle natural disasters. In the past, we were prepared. We have (arugably) the best system of first responders on the planet. Disasters of this magnitude aren't supposed to happen here.

I've been thinking alot about 9/11 lately. I'm not trying to compare the two, but both events seem to have three things in common. First, the scope of death and destruction is way beyond anything the US has experienced. We watch, read, and hear a steady stream of 24 hour news coverage. It all seems unimaginable, but we see the devistation with our own eyes.

The second thing 9/11 and Katrina have in common is the grand outpouring of support by fellow Americans. In both cases, we forget our differences, and pull together to help those among us who are suffering.

The third thing 9/11 has in common with Katrina is, in my opinion, the most curious. Like I said, people tend to compare the devistation with last year's tsunami. Its like we Americans are shocked by both 9/11 and Katrina because things like that just don't happen in America. In the case of 9/11, we couldn't compare the horror to any past event in American history. Instead, we discussed parallels to violence in the Middle East.

What does all of this have to do with anything? In my opinion, it just seems that we Americans may have lost touch with reality a bit. I guess that happens when American pop culture regularly feeds us fake and real images of violence and destruction, wrapped up and packaged as entertainment. We get desensitized, and it takes these things happening in real life to get us thinking again. Unlike television, the World Trade Center wasn't rebuilt a week after those 2 jets hit it. New Orleans will not get rebuilt during a 5 minute music video montage. Bottom line, reality can get messy, and there is no pat happy ending.

Consider the following.
1. People who listened to the advice of government officials and walked, rode bicycles, drove, hitchiked or took other modes of transport out of the area are SAFE right now. They listened.

2. People who are still in the area outnumber ANY estimates tha have been gamed for this disaster before. As a matter of fact, almost this exat scenario in this exact location was gamed by FEMA and local officials within the last two-three years. It was nearly prescient. The number of people who seem to have ignored the warnings and/or stayed behind has exceeded the worst case estimates that FEMA made... would YOU have guessed that nearly 100,000 people would ignore or be unable to heed warnings to leave the area of your home after such a announcement/directive was made 36-48 hours prior to the event?

3. The looting and rioting which is shown on television and reported elsewhere in the media is factual - however, there are far fewer stories about the quiet survivors in the same area --- why? Because the former "sells" and the latter doesn't. So, the general public, like the officials on the ground, really have no clear picture as no one... I repeat .. no one has accurate information.

4. Even poor people who were unable to leave under their own transport did not report to publicly available shelters where they would have been safe and not needed to be rescued, only transported out. They MUST shoulder some of the blame for their current situation.

5. Public shelters, like the Superdome, devolved into health hazard wastelands, again at least in part due to the attitude of those who are there not taking interest in preserving their habitat... If toiles overflowed or backed up, the same was not reported (according to a NOPD Reserve cop and now activated NGuardsman relative of mine who is currently on duty AT the Superdome). Instead, people got up, moved to the next stall and left.. They didn't even bother to mention it to Superdome janitorial people. That's a me, me, me attitude that is unconscionable. Once in a shelter, you still have some responsibility for the conditions in which you live.

6. Like here in SL, those who perceice that others have "more" (of whatever) can often become jealous or envious --- in this case, those who are still there are reasonable in their desire to leave on a bus, but not everyone can go first, or second, or even third. So, how can officials get everyone out is the issue.... some have greater/immediate needs to leave than others (medical, for ex) while there is a tendency to not want to split up families which is an issue unto itself.

7. Ready for a disaster? Nope - not a single country in the world is. Then again, how long did relief take to ge to the tsunami areas in quantity? This is comparable to that in terms population numbers to some extent, in terms of geography (if you look at inland damage), in temrs of lack of international relief efforts that have reached the US, let alone the Gulf Coast area.

7b. Ready for a disaster? Nope - check out your history as far as European flooding, as far as earthquake relief in Japan, as far as earthquake relief in the Caucasus, as far as famine in Africa and elsewhere. It's a particularly dense accusation to even postulate that the US government (or any government for that matter) deliberately ignored disaster preparedness. It's a question of limited resources, setting priorities, risk assessment and time.

Some of the comments here in these forums and elsewhere make me wonder if anyone has a logical mind anymore. Others encourage me that some people don't just throw around blindly political blanket accusations for whatever reason.

Let me ask this... What have you prepared yourself for disaster wise lately? Do you have a weapon and ammo to protect YOUR family and possessions from looters? If not, why not? If you don't believe in guns or force, if a guy or group of guys comes to your house to rob and rape, what will you do? Have you set aside food that is non-perishable in a quantity sufficient to sustain yourself and your family for at least a week? If not, why not? If so, what will you do when you're told that you can't be "Relieved" or evacuated for two weeks instead of the one you prepared for? What will you do when someone you know shows up on your doorstep two days past when you expectd to be "relieved" and you have enough water for just yourself for two more days? Will you give that person your water?

Think about this. Piss poor planning and economic conditions on the part of some individual citizens have exaverbated an already bad situation - for themselves and for others.

Perpeare for a disaster? Nope. Not possible as an absolute.

Excuse me,

But i was born in brazil, a third world country and everyone is always united through the bad times and the good times, and most of South America is the same.

It takes a disaster or a tragedy to unite americans (No offense)

Before 9.11 you saw few ppl with flags on cars or ribbons..

In an event of power outs or hurricanes, its when your neighbor comes out and greets you and ask for help, or even talk to you more then 10 minutes.. lol

This is not of course in all USA, some places they are very friendly, but from what i gather and places i been in 9 years

My mother lived in her home for 2-3 years and just when hurricanes happen the neighbors come out and talk, but when they have power they dont even talk 2 you.. its like your living next door to someone you dont know nothing about lol until something bad happens, then they come and greet ya and ask for information.

This is what i found a bit weird and miss from my home country..

Well we may have, but if we do, it failed miserably in this tragic disaster.

Here are the things that i just can't understand:

1. They KNEW that the levy's would not hold up past a category 3, why were the levy's not re-engineered and fortified before this terrible tragedy?

2. They KNEW the hurricane would make land fall as a minumum of a cat 4. When that happens in Florida, the local sheriff vists all of the places that are most vulnerable (like trailer parks and old age homes) and begin a "strongly suggested" evacuation, in other words, they walk people out of their houses. From what I hear (and it's from one person who actually evacuated as well as the news) they did not do this, They left them to find their own transportation and evacuation zone. They depended on information from the radio and television stations. Who believes the media anymore when everything is so sensationalized?

3. They KNEW the hurricane was coming, some people would not leave and would need a place outside and within the city to evacuate to - the super dome was a fair choice but why did they not have water, portable toilets, medical supplies, tents, blankets, medical personnel, law enforcement and food on standby at the superdome waiting? Did they not have a disaster recovery plan for the city? It dosen't look like it.

Our shelters here in S. Florida have generators, water, food and medical supplies. Our medical personnel and law enforcement, fire and utility companies are put on alert and have extra personnel that know they will need to work.

4. Why weren't the national guard brought in immediately after the hurricane in full force? Why were Navy hospital ships only just dispatched today?

5. Where is their control center????? Who is coordinating all the efforts and letting people know where they should go, what they should do and when they should do it??? (I mean besides Fox News and CNN).

6. Why didn't they govenor/mayor/senator or SOMEBODY in charge get on every communication channel available and say, first we evacuate the hospitals, then we do this, then we do that... etc. People need to know these things. Instead the asshat ran around flailing his arms and screaming "where is FEMA, where is FEMA".

7. And last but not least, what the fuck did happen to FEMA? Please don't say they were overwhelmed with S. Florida, because they weren't.

I could go on with a list of requirements for disaster preparedness. Even the company that I work for is better prepared than the city of New Orleans was. Shit - even I'm better prepared (I was out of power for 7 days with Katrina).

The govenor and mayor of LA should be forced to live in the Super dome in its present condition, with no food, AC, water or medical supplies until all the water in New Orleans recedes.

Truly, it's criminal.

He's off vacation now. He cut it short because of this.

I was going to give you a schpiel about cost-benefit analysis, but I came across this article while trying to find the most recent Army Corps of Engineers study. I recently read that FEMA estimated 1/6 probability for a catastrophic hurricane striking New Orleans. From an engineering standpoint, there's absolutely no reason why the levees should have been neglected. It wasn't an engineering failure. It was yet another inexcusable political failure.

This is just wrong.

Have any of you lived through a Hurricane of Katrina's strength? Have you had flood waters drive you to sit on your roof for days on end? Even if you had supplies, would they still be there after the storm, after the flooding? Don't you get it? Or let's blame the victims for their sorry flight. Yeah that is the right thing to do as we sit in our dry world with water, food and don't forget.... dry clothing Dry sneakers for goodness sake.

It sickens me really this attitude. And you can bet your bottom linden that if I was in some of those people situation I would be smashing windows too to get food, water and hopefully dry clothing for my family. You can call me a looter all you want from your comfortable world. It's not like the products those people lifted are ever going to get sold. Have you even seen the pictures of the devestation that the storm brought???? So these people should sit quietly and wait while their family and friends swelter in the heat til they die. And they are dying. If I was a store owner I would just open my doors to them and say take what you need. Guns are a different issue but I might consider it if I felt my family was in danger.

Have you seen the price of gas? Who are the real looters in this scenerio? It is not like any oil executive is struggling to feed his family after an event like Katrina...I'm sure their millions afford them to loot comfortably in their mansions right in front of our eyes and we turn around and blame the poor people left in the SE struggling to just survive. It is day 5 isn't it and the tales coming out of NO, Biloxi and other places is that people are /really/ suffering and day 4 still had no water, or food in placess in Mississippi, LA and Alabama. And noone even mentions the Bayou people in Buras LA where Katrina made landfall. No communication, barely a media mention.

There are many reasons why the people did not leave...resources, belief that it wouldn't be this bad and they have road out hurricanes before whatever the reason...I think it is sick and heartless to blame this on them. There should have been some assistance for the most vunerable of our citizens. It seems that even if all the people left who you see sloshing through the shit filled toxic water, we still had nursing homes, hospitals with patients and they didn't leave either. Do you blame them too? Or how about the elderly alone in their homes?


Maybe I should write that I am sorry for the rant...but I'm not.

And it seems to me that people could have a little bit more compassion in this world.

Short, eh? I'd love his kind of "short" vacation.

They're not so vulnerable when they have guns...

All those people are carrying guns? Yeah right!

You must be watching a different news channel than I am. Because all those people waiting at the convention center in NO and The Superdome don't seem to be packing to me. Oh yeah and those women carrying their babies... yeah they got guns too. Did you see that old gentleman being pushed on a serving tray rack by four young men through the water...they are all carrying guns too, right? How about the diabetic plucked from a rooftop or even scores of families walking with no news, no knowledge of where to go....in their suitcases they are all packing guns. I just don't think so.

Yes, there seems to be a criminal element rampaging through the City, countryside and it makes it even worse for the majority of the people struggling to survive over there. They have no security.

Nope. apparently you can't --- or refuse to.

See? Proved my point. They DIDN'T KNOW, they projected.

Check the timeline. Check the history of all hurricanes. This one was modelled to remain a Cat 1 or fizzle after it passed over Florida. It didn't... it gained strength despite the models. DOH.

Well, gee. Floridians must just be smarter than the poor dumb Cajuns.

Gee. That person's experience is representative of ALL official actions by Louisiana government.. right?

And once again ignorance raises its ugly head. You have no clue what was prepositioned there do you? So why do you assume that nothing, or little was? In actual fact, there were meals and water supplied and people were advised as they entered the 'dome exactly what the extent of those supplies were and what conditions inside would be --- I repeat - - as they entered. This has been reported repeatedly.

Mine is smarter and more pwerful than yours, eh? Go you. What BS!

Gee, let's see the extent of the ignorance of the situation you have exhibited here. The National Guard WAS mobilized -- as a matter of fact, one of the locations wound up being flooded to a depth of 12 feet of water. Did you know that? No, didn't think you did. Navy hospital ships.. gee. Who controls that? The Feds... and thus, Lousiana's government officials have no control over that. There is a military mission those ships are tasked against... have you forgotten that? Guess what, one hospital ship was put on departure alert within 24 hours -- you didn't know that did you? No.. didn't think so. My God, your suppositions and assumptions are legion.

Wow. Let's see. You don't remember 9/11 at all do you? I think the local over the air television stations nearly all used antennas and lines that centered on the WTC so that sort of hindered information dissemination a bit, didn't it? Oh, no power, no microwave towers so little cell phone comms ... so, unoffical information dissemination networks are face to face. "Official" info netwroks in the US rely on civilian infrastructure as part of the "free airways allotment laws" or whatever they are properly called. That is, the government allows/assigns airway use in exchange for the emergency use of such... and guess what. The silly civilian broadcasters all located their antennas in a very small and flood prone area which just happened to be where the Industrial Canal levee broke. So, they got flooded out at the antennas. These same "wonderful sillyvillians" have their offices located in the Quarter! WWL and WDSU offices are in the Quarter! When they finally figured out that they would lose their facilities due to flooding, they moved -- to Baton Rouge, Houston, Florida and elsewhere. Watch the over the Internet live video if you don't believe me.

Last part first. What do you want the people to do? Shoot that guy? As for the first part, you obviously have no clue that that is EXACTLY what is and has been done by Mayor Nagin. So, whichever asshat you refer to certainly can't be him.

AGain your ignorance of disaster relief planning and management would, and does, obviously fill books. The timeline they work against is phased. The first phase, which we are in, is 70-72 hours long. Guess what, FEMA is on track and on task according to their timeline, for the most part.

And I am sure you will.

See? You did.

Nope. It's a disaster.

Get some real information. Then think twice before you post/open your mouth and look like a real fool.

Guess what? It isn't even day 4 until tomorrow - at least as far as post-strike day count goes. The strike was on Monday... check your calendar.

As for Buras, the problem there is literally that all phone comms have been severed with areas south of New Orleans. All of them.

The local news media have recognized the black hole that is the communications vacuum down there - but also guess what, who other than Louisianians knows where Buras is? That's why there's little attention. It's isolated, flooded, hard to get to. There is nothing stopping the news media from flying down their except their tripping over themselves to get the nearest story first.

As time passes, local media has begun to move downriver and today, for the first time, actually got word from downriver - by a poltician who had to get in a boat and car to get to a place where the media were. He's been in contact with FEMA now.

So, yeah.. sensationalizing and going off half-cocked without thinking about the real situation is beneficial to this discussion.

Sigh. Typical rants. Good work.

Not.

Picado -


It is day 5 for me as it is Friday where I am. Katrina hit on Monday.

I don't consider anything that I wrote senationalism or half-cockness. I have been following it closely and some of the reporters reporting out of NO and other areas affected...well they must be darn good actors because I have never seen so many so upset about anything since 9/11 and their film clips tell alot. I am outraged, upset and am truly puzzled by the cavaliar attitude regarding people's suffering that I have witnessed here. I am glad that they are finding out about the people in the isolated area of Buras...and I will pass it to people who were worried about them and may not have the information yet.

Feel free to /not/ discuss it with me anymore if it is not helping your discussion. I welcome that.