Myth

Jarod Godel: What do the Lindens think of the "techie/wiki" community? Or the Feted/Fetid Inner Core?
Robin Linden: I think it's an interesting myth.

myth (mith) n. ... any real or fictional story, recurring theme, or character type that appeals to the consciouness of a people by embodying its cultural ideals or by giving expression to deep, commonly felt emotions ...

I think Robin choosed her words very carefully. What do you think?

How do you mean?

Here's what I think:

Mushrooms were never meant to be eaten. They are fungus....

I miss being confused constantly in SL. Now it's just once or twice a session.

I'm suspicious of male newbs but not of female newbs, unless they talk to me.

I'd like a great builder to someday think I'm a great builder. But I don't care what anyone thinks!

As the world of Second Life grows ever so much larger, there is less I find to do.

Parks and meandering pathways are restful, in RL and SL.

I love been around witty people, even though it makes me be quiet.

I'd like the ability to drown and/or swim in SL.

My inventory is approaching, or has passed, 13,000 things and it makes me sad.

I wish I had less ideas, but more ambition.

I deserve to win the lottery.

I blame no one but myself.

I think it's likely that Robin realizes that there is at least a sliver of truth to all sides of our controversial debates here. So....... yes, I think the use of the word 'myth' was no mistake

Only Robin could tell us for sure, however

Sure there can be half-truths and slivers of truths within myths. A lot of them got started that way. They're still not listed as "non-fiction" for a reason.

Your definition apparently comes from the The American Heritage Dictionary, according to a Google result that quotes one Frederick Edwords as claiming so.

http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/myth.html

Interestingly enough, I can't find the word "real" attributed in a stand alone sense ("real or fictional" in reference to the word "myth" in my RL American Heritage Dictionary, nor in the online American Heritage Dictionary hosted at dictionary.com. Same for Merriam-Webster, Oxford, Cambridge, and Funk & Wagnalls.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=myth

Perhaps this comes from an out of print version of said dictionary, I don't know, but I highly doubt that Robin was alluding to that definition, as she would have to have in her possesion this particular edition, if some edition of the American Heritage Dictionary defines it this way. Not to mention, she would have to have been thinking deeply about the term and it's various definitions.

I am not trying to nitpick, but perhaps I am, as etymology fascinates me and is something I have studied most of my life.

I'm a religious studies major. Just so happens that I just finished a course on Living Myths

What makes a myth living is the connotation associated with the story that the myth tells. For example: The myth of the FIC tells of an elite group of people who hold power. Some people really do believe that said group exists, and act accordingly. The actual existance of these people can be either true or false; that doesn't matter. However, since there is a steady group of people who hold to these beliefs, it can be said to be a living myth.

A myth no longer becomes living when it is purely analyzed as an artifact of history. It is read, studied, and taught purely for it's denotative meaning. The symbols and ideas that are passed from it are no more inspiring than reading a cookbook.

It's a gross simplification of the definition, but it works for this discussion. Interesting choice of words from an RS POV.

damn...never thought I'd be using RS concepts in SL.

If it's a myth, albeit an "interesting" myth...how could threads about it be closed or postings about it be discourged...if it doesn't exist? If you attack a thing that doesn't exist...what have you done? You have merely tilted at windmills, eh lol? So...what was the big federal case about?

Answer: cutting too close to the bone. This high school was having a nice party until some people came along!

No, it's because the starter of those threads likes making rash, unfounded personal attacks on groups of members. Quite frankly I'm not sure why LL has let it get this far. I'd be happier if LL just locked or deleted these threads before they begin.

-Adam

I have no doubt she meant myth in the way it's most commonly used... to denote a story that has no basis in truth.

Ditto.

"You spin me right round baby like a record baby right round right round..."

I have it on good authority that she meant:

Your intent is clear Prokofy. You have a very deliberate agenda that's obvious to everyone, including you. I've never seen anyone work so hard to cause division and to label groups of people derisively as a means of elevating themselves artifically by "standing up to them". You know exactly what you're doing. It's the same game you played in TSO, and no doubt the same game you'll play wherever you go next. Vudu summed it up really well in the other thread about creating "the enemy within." Demagoguery 101.

TSO, There, shadow government, SL, FIC... same stuff, different game.

I guess there are no new stories under sun - doubly so about bikinis.

Siggy.

The FIC started as a way for soume people to blame the changes that came with 1.6 on people. well I say we see this in the 1.7 notes

SL 1.7 release notes:
- Removed the concept of the Feted Inner core.


there is no point of a few people campaign on the rest of SL to out the FIC and put an end to what does not exsist, I just see it as hate and abuse to scapegoats

This thread is now about Roland Barthes.

The Shadow Government was a real entity.

coco

Yet I think there is merit to undersand and accepting how individulas, or groups of individuals impact the direction of the game. The players closest to the Lindens, or the players giving the most feedback on the game will have a greater impact than the casual player who just logs on for the wild av sex. I assume that the lindens are human, and that they want to listen to feed back from players. Given these two assumptions it is natural and expected that there is group of influential players.

I don't attribute any conspiracy motives to this group, nor do I assume they act in unison. In point of fact I am sure many of these players are not even aware of thier influence. If you call them FIC in the forum, they will deny it.

Linden Labs will deny it too, as they are honestll dedicated to providing a positive SL expereinece for everyone. Nevertheless I think old fashion group dynamics takes over and, as someone pointed out in another thread, we like to do business with freinds. As it happens, this forum has some very creative people who are committed to making a solid impact on SL. They are therefore, very influential. It also helps that on the whole, they are pretty easy to get along with. It would be a mistake to think that any of my comments are going to carry as much weight as any of their comments when read by people who know them and not me.

This is the kernel of truth at the core of the FIC myth. Peel layers away and you can build the myth further. I always ask how come I didn't know there was a club floating high above midnight city, and I go to clubs. My conversations with the merchants/creators in Midnight city would be interrupted with "Well I gotta get back to the sky box!" How easy it would be to beleive that this was some secret party of an elite cabal, that had thier invitation only Fete's high aove the grid. I may not, in fact, beleive that the FIC holds secret parties, but its fun to think they do.

The thing about the FIC is that it is a fun myth, a good myth, it serves as devil or angel and makes the disparity between rich an poor make sense in a twisted way. In some fashion we need the FIC. It provides hours of entertainment. Just like the forums need the spark of Prokofy to turn any thread into Dresden.

I shamelessly game the forums, it amuses me. It is an experience entirely distinct from my in world expereince. If Prokofy was not in the forums, he would have to be invented. The fuel for the fires that get the threads banned does not come from a single player, but fron all of us. I watch how people cajol and threaten each other, how everyone seems to enter into any discussion with both barrels, what ever the topic: "I am right, you are wrong, furthremore your mother raised you to be a moron, cause only a moron could take the position you did, you are FIC, you are a nazi, you are condescending, you have no life, you can't smell and your feet stink and you like AVI sex." And thats just round one.


Sometimes the whole damnable forum, my self included just needs a serious does of "Lighten up." If you are FIC, laugh about it. If you are not FIC have avi sex with someone who is.

And for gods sakes, everyone should write one 35 paragraph self indulgent rant. its cathartic.

Yeah, can we restrict stuff to a run on sentance or less?

I mean, really, if it's over a paragraph, people are just going to loose interest in whatever point you're trying to make.

I'm waiting for the Lindens to put flouride in the water, to impurify our precious bodily fluids.

Hours of entertainment disparaging people whose only crime is success. Fun. Strange as it may seem, most people don't appreciate being labeled a snob when they aren't one and being attributed with nefarious motives they don't have by people they've never met. If your idea of a good myth is one that creates division and resentment against people who don't deserve it then yes, well done!

I often work from the first edition version I have at the office. A more recent version has, at the same point in the list:

"A popular belief or story that has become associated with a person, institution, or occurrence, especially one that is considered to illustrate a cultural ideal."

Again, note no reference to truth or falsity.

Admittedly the more common use of "myth" implies falsehood. I think this is a waste of a really good word, and have always used it to mean a widely known, culturally powerful story or concept. For example, that Einstein was really smart is a myth. It's also true. That flying saucers often kidnap people is also a myth, but unlikely to be true. George Washington is much more of a myth than Paul Bunyon. Myths are the ideas that broadly engage us as a culture.

I have noticed that Robin chooses her words carefully. Why say "it's an interesting myth" instead of "there's no substance to it"? And what is interesting about it anyway?

My interpretation of that quote is that FIC &c are now part of a new and dynamic culturel a culture which the Lindens are anxious to nurture and encourage. For me it is not testimony denying the existence of such groups.

I'm just reporting, Chip. I don't make up the stuff, I just report it. It's there to be seen. Many *do* see it. If you don't, you're *in it*.

In RL, there are phrases like "the glass ceiling" or "the invisible barrier" or "the velvet glove" etc. to indicate how some barriers, limitations, clubs, etc. don't have to be obviously separate, but can nevertheless exist as a real phenomenon.

I've never described this very normal phenomenon of group dynamics, obvious to anyone who ever attended high school, as any kind of conspiracy. That was just a direction some took to lampoon it, and it gave them a lot of creative mileage.

The Sims Shadow Government in TSO really existed, and really caused mayhem. In fact, it griefed and bullied and harassed in ways that certain groups in SL never do, because it's just a more sophisticated game for more highly-educated and competent people -- for the most part. Yet the behaviour on the forums -- the personal insults and vituperative, hateful remarks, and the stooping so low as to lie and slander and even drag in real or imaged RL details -- that outstrips even the greatest evil of the SSG.

When you report on something like this, people are bound to get mad, and call you a demagogue, or a struggler for power, or a monster, or insane. But it's just a report. That's all.

Sometimes, just cutting and pasting and juxtaposing can be a profound act of dissent, leading even to disappearance of threads.

Get help dude.