Bush? no. Kerry? no. ..then who?

i know this may blow up into, 'that side does this' and , 'but that side does this other thing'.. ack.

think about it.. is either side worthy of any votes? disallowing for wanting to 'vote Bush out' as a reason to vote Democratic..

i know i've mentioned Third-party before, but the proof that this should be considered a viable option is just getting stronger and stonger.

we all know what we don't like about Bush, but what about Kerry?

from The Village Voice:
"With growing issues over his wealth (which makes fellow plutocrat Bush seem a charity case by comparison), the miasma over his medals and ribbons (or ribbons and medals), his uninspiring record in the Senate (yes war, no war), and wishy-washy efforts to mimic Bill Clinton's triangulation gimmickry (the protractor factor), Kerry sinks day by day. The pros all know that the candidate who starts each morning by having to explain himself is a goner."


from The New York Observer:
(quoting Meet The Press)
""You committed atrocities," said Mr. Russert gravely, asking Mr. Kerry to address the statements of the young man on the screen.

Suddenly, the current John Kerry, of 2004, gave a stumbling, inexplicable guffaw.

"Where did all that dark hair go, Tim? That’s a big question for me."[replied Kerry]"


from The Drudge Report:
"On the Friday before his MEET THE PRESS appearance, Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry flew his Washington, DC hairdresser to Pittsburgh for a touch-up, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Cristophe stylist Isabelle Goetz, who handles Kerry's hair issues, made the trek to Pittsburgh, campaign sources reveal.

"Her entire schedule had to be rearranged," a top source explains.

A Kerry campaign spokesman refuses to clarify if Goetz flew by private jet on April 16 or on the official Kerry For President campaign plane.

The total expense for the hair touch-up is estimated to be more than $1000, insiders tell DRUDGE.

One source suggests the hairdresser was flown to Pittburgh on Teresa Heinz Kerry's 'Flying Squirrel', a Gulfstream V private jet.

[The 'Flying Squirrel' is worth about $35 million. A deluxe model; plasma TV, two bathrooms, fancy mahogany and burlwood paneling, gold-plated fixtures.]

"Senator Kerry thinks Isabelle does a superb job," a campaign source said.

Goetz grew up in a small town in eastern France. She also does Hillary Clinton's hair."


NOW does anyone want to consider supporting a third-party?

i think if America has any sense at all, we'll keep BOTH Republicans AND Democrats out of Presidential office!

note: this has been a stateent of personal opinion due to the fear that America is just going further and further down a self-destructive (and financially backed) 'rabbit hole'.

maybe a furries party? Furries United or so? rofl

The candidates suck... but, I'll be voting Kerry to do my part to remove Bush from office.

Neither are really apetizing, but Bush has, in my opinion, gone off the deep end:

- crusading against porn
- Proposed Anti-Gay Amendment to the U.S. Constitution introduced by Congresswoman Marilyn Musgrave, R-CO
- Bush's environmental policy
- upcoming retirements of Supreme Court Justice(s)
- Eroded Civil Liberties
- and a thousand other reasons

So, while Kerry may not be my favorite, the far right radical position the current administration is shoving down my throat is insane and frightening to say the least.

While voting for a third party does have a very good feel, standing for your beliefs, showing your feelings with your vote and all, it's not very practical. There's just very little chance a third party contender will win.

I can understand the arguments here; "If we had enough votes we could show them all in Washington" , "Our feelings will be made known" etc. What you just won't hear though is "Wow, what do you know, the Green party won!"

On a practical side, we have to look at which of the two spouts more of what we want to hear, or, which one scares us the most.

This time around my choice is made by both these things. Bush has just got to go. He stands for so very many things I don't agree with AND he scares the hell out of me. I hesitate to think about how many more people will hate the US after 4 more years of him.

Kerry only scares me a little and he says many of the things I want to hear. He's for abortion rights, he mentioned raising the taxes for the ultra-rich, he's for gay civil unions (true, marriages would be better, but at least he's not trying to get an amendmant to outlaw it) and he seems to be a LOT more in touch with the little guy.

I'll be voting Kerry.

I'm planning on voting for Kerry for pretty much all the reasons mentioned above. 4 more years of Bush and who knows where we'll be. *shudder*



Since when was having money a bad thing? As long as you are willing to pay the taxes on it, then there is nothing wrong with it. Hell, the major backers of most of the major 3rd party parties and of course the RNC and DNC are wealthy or else they likely wouldn't be grouped as major backers. Just 'cuase someone is wealthy doesn't neccessarilly make them evil.

Juro,

i understand where you're coming from and why you would want to be rid of President Bush.

i'm just afraid that Kerry will end up over-compensating and the 'political tossing of the medicine ball' will carry over into seeing just as regrettable an effect, but in the interests of Kerry as opposed to Bush.

the problem is, 'We the People' will end up suffering either way. i just wish everyone would stop and think for a moment about who should be the president, instead of who shouldn't be the president.

but yes, i understand your point and am in no way saying you're wrong. just that i have a different viewpoint and the end-product i want is not to remove someone from office, but to put someone decent in office.

Cybin,

I agree completely. There are times when clearly, one of the major candidates (from either RNC or DNC) doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning. In those situations, I vote for my ideal candidate, usually 3rd party.

In times where the race is tight, as it was in 2000 and is again today, I cast my vote *against* the major candidate that poses the biggest threat.

I don't think that the pendulum will sway that greatly under Kerry. One thing I can say about Bush: he gets shit done. It's the shit he's promoting that I abhor.

I can't imagine what will happen in the next 4 years if he's re-elected, considering what he's done in the past 4.

from The Drudge Report:
"On the Friday before his MEET THE PRESS appearance, Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry flew his Washington, DC hairdresser to Pittsburgh for a touch-up, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Who did he get Floyd....I feel ya though I would be more likely to vote in Elmer Fudd than either of these clowns...they both come from the same Skull and Bones breeding. Besides I know Kerry's wifes family they are old Pitt money. He is no different than Bush and both of them smell like rancid cauliflower if you really dig into their pasts. Neither of them have ever made a strong contribution to society without the aid of someone elses money (and I am hard pressed to think of any contribution they have made even with that money) A politician is a politician is a politician....

But, alas, I am a decent USArican, so I will do the only thing that I can and work to vote Bush out of office for all the reasons that Juro has stated and for some personal ones. My Constitution is being erased, stompped and drug through the mud by chains behind an f10 pick up.

All of your examples against Keery are trivial at best and in my opinion part of the republican spin machine.

All politicians get their hair done. Ever since a thriving Nixon lost a ton of votes after appearing to a very polished and pretty JFK on television this type of preparation is par for the course. I can't believe you quoted Drudge of all people. Maybe next there will be an expose on Kerry's choice of bath soaps on FOX.

The quote from Meet the Press is ridiculously out of context. I weep for a country that takes newbites out of an already TV condensed media report. He addressed the issue and the joke was appropriate as they had just shown a clip of him much much younger. I don't know about you but I kind of like my politicians to be human.

Kerry's voting record on the war is consistent and easily defendable. I have no problems at all with him in that area.

Medals and ribbons? That he earned? Speaking out against a war he fought in? Not a problem for me. Sorry.

GWBush is a liar. He kills people everytime he opens his mouth. I can deal with an expensive do and a poorly placed self-depricating hair joke on Meet the Press.

Well, without going into elaborate detail:

Kerry is not Bush. I would elect a feces-flinging monkey before I voted for Bush or cast my vote in a way that increased Bush's likelihood of reelection.
Azrazael's inciting comments aside, yeah, an animal locked in the oval office would probably be less damaging to the country as a whole than another four years of Bush. I'd rather replace a government office carpet than everything that another four years like this would destroy.

i'm not disputing getting Bush out.. and i only provided those quotes as surface material.

think back.. before Bush was elected.. how bad did he seem then? how did his 'promises' and 'hopes for the country' come across before he was elected?

that's what i'm trying to say..

of course Kerry seems better.. he hasn't been elected yet and he's trying to look as shiny and polished as possible. we all know that what candidates say should never be what we expect them to actually do.

i'm saying read between the lines.. what are Kerry's true intentions? what do his promises hold when consolidated(sp?) then scrubbed with a figurative Brillo pad?

that's what i'm afraid of.. i'm afraid that we're going to lose out in the long run.. regardless of which one is in office. it seems that Bush is horrible and needs to be booted.. i don't argue that.. but will we regret not banding together and voting in a third-party?

i know, i know.. but a third-party won't win.. that's because everyone who wants Bush out is going to vote for Kerry. if we all voted for a third-party instead, then maybe there really would be a chance of them being elected.

maybe we should just vote in Kerry. then in another 4 years, when things have been mangled just as bad, but in different ways, we can vote for a third-party? i read that Jesse Ventura may run in 2008.. i'm sure we'll have Ralph Nader out there again.. too bad Perot isn't running.

I voted for Nader in 2000 and boy do I regret it now. I'm not making that same mistake again.

In an ideal world a 3rd-party canditate would actually stand a chance. But our political system is far from ideal. In today's situation it doesn't seem worth risking Bush getting re-elected to simply make a protest vote. It is really sad that we have to choose the "lesser of evils" but that's the reality right now. I don't like most polititians at all, but the direction Bush is driving this country in cannot continue. Even if Kerry has his own questionable agendas... I can't imagine them being more against my views than Bush's and his associates.

Believe me... I really wish we could get a 3rd party in there and one hopes that someday we will. I just think its not going to happen this election, it seems like its too late in the game for a strong 3rd person to appear.

If I considered the candidates to be a choice between two equal evils I'd vote for a 3rd party candidate despite the fact that he/she wouldn't have a chance in hell of winning. If an increasing percentage of people vote for 3rd party candidates it would at least force to major parties to try and lure them back into the fold. But this time around I'm voting Kerry. Whatever has the best chance of getting Bush thrown out on his sorry ass is what I'll do.

The thing that really bothers me about Bush is his absolute refusal to admit to mistakes. He's like the guy who refuses to ask directions and drives hundreds of miles in the wrong direction because he believes he will find the interstate "soon". Realizing that you were wrong, and changing your mind does not make you a flip-flopper. It makes you a person who learns from his mistakes.

Since the "committed" vote seems to be about 50-50, its all up to the "undecided". This will be a close one.

Maybe we could get Perot to run again?

Or is Pat Paulsun still alive. The STAG party sounds good right about now.

I do agree with 'vote your conscience'.

However, since no candidates(third parrty or otherwise) are particularly appealing right now, my conscience is leaning more towards 'get rid of Bush' than towards any particular candidate. Your concsience can have priorities other than 'I like this guy I want him in'.

I don't like Kerry much. But, put in terms of dice: we botched the roll this time, and we'll probably at least get a 2 if we roll again. Kerry may not be great but I KNOW what Bush is and I know that I don't want him anymore. I'll take the chance with Kerry. If it's another 1, then damn, I'll just roll again in another four years. But if Bush gets back in (which he will if too many people go third-party) this is going to be third world county inside of eight years.

Did you know that they're already talking about who they're going to run after JEB? George P. Bush or something. They're planning a Bush dynasty for the next 20 years, at very least. That scares the SHIT out of me. I will put -anyone- in office to avoid that. And if they suck, I'll deal with them later.

i made a short comment about this before..

we vote in Kerry to oust Bush.
then in 4 years we vote in a third-party.
good idea?

we could start an initiative right after Kerry is sworn in.

Devlin, i agree.. Perot was a great candidate. a shrewd businessman, a perfect 'archetype' for a president. America, more than anything, is akin to running a business.

Liam, that does sound spooky.. 20 years of Bush? i know people love Monty Python, but enough with the shrubbery! hehe..

No, Kerry's wife's was only married to a Heinz. Her family is Portuguese, and pretty well known for extorting money from Jewish refugees fleeing from Europe before and during World War 2 and then for transporting the Nazis and all the loot they stole to South America.

I don't think so. This campaign reminds me of the Bush-Dukakis race. Kerry inspires nearly as much indifference amongst Democrats as Dukakis did - no easy task, that. Unless he picks a very good VP candidate he is screwed.
And another thing, the situation in Florida won't repeat because electronic voting leaves no paper trail and the lists of felons who are ineligable to vote have been updated and remove about another 18000 voters from the rolls - while at the same time there are a larger number of Latin voters than last time, and they are predictably conservative in their voting. Gore got Michigan last election, but it is very tight this year, and all of the Northeastern states have lost electoral votes in the last four years.
Kerry was smart in avoiding the whole gay marriage thing but if he'd been much smarter he'd have condemned the whole idea; he IS from Massachusetts, and that will be the thing that kills him, the backlash voting after the Bush campaign has primetime ads featuring men in wedding dresses getting hitched. So we might as well vote for Ralph.

Ummmm .... one time at band camp I................



SHOVE A FLUTE UP THE WRONG END OF GOERGE W BUSH LMAO




See bush that didn't feel to bad if fact I bet ya like it (nudges with elbow) huh? huh? I bet ya like it LOL

* *
Ya JERRY ALL THE WAY MAN <U> Errrrr Kerry hehehehe

[/B]



Um may I ask What is the deal with your How to put this less politely Aw hell I will make it polite - Most distastful view of well everything I am not sayin vote for anyone you don't want to but maybe we could leave out the personal opinons about what lingers in that little brain of yours Mkay- After all You sound like bush with that whole anti everthing that isn't me Spew garbage *smiles* have a nice day or whatever but try to keep things that insult others in the trap not flying out

1. Sherpa, that whole paragraph made very little sense. Not a complete thought in there.

2. If you are TRYING to imply that David is anti-gay from what he said about Bush/Kerrys stand on gay marriage then you are a fool. Because David IS gay. He just holds a realistic view on how the politics in this country works, and has a thumb on how the "Moral" majority feels on the subject. Unfortunately most of the country is still against gay marriage, though it in no way affects affects ANYBODY, but the participants.

...
This is all so sad.
This fall I will be voting for the person who I think can keep me an my newly forming family the safest. Whether that be Kerry, Bush, or some viable 3rd party candidate.

I don't feel like a big arguement but in touch with the little guy? I'm sorry but I don't own 7 houses each worth over 4 million dollars a piece. Can't you see the little guy thing is just an act, I've met a few people from mass who have met him and said when the cameras are around that he acts all friendly but when they leave he's a total prick to the little guy.

My favorite one was when the cameras were around he tried to put his arm around this girl for a photo op and she told him to get the hell of and that she was a republican... ah so funny.

JV

Not to mention the way Kerry married her. He was good Friends with Senator Heinz and then when he died he pounced on his good friends wife for the money.... no he's not greedy at all.....

JV